Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ah, NuCoal. Destroyers of the Humanist Alliance, magically sprung from the desert all formed by the will of the self-inserted author. Unbalanced, and not just by having a new cost system.
See, every cost system will have bugs. When designing models, it's important to take the known weaknesses of the costing system into account, and make sure to design around them.
But DP9, they go one step further! They design models to abuse those weaknesses. That way, they can get over-performing models, and if someone says that the model is undercosted, they can say that the cost system says it's ok.

The Voltigeur, IIRC, is a perfect example. On paper, it's not as good as a Red Bull, and should cost less. In fact, it's better.
Same weapons, take damage the same way. Both move about the same speed. Same performances.
The Voltigeur loses a bunch of useless extras, and a bit of armour.

What it gets, in exchange, is a reinforced frontal armour that takes the front above 40. That's a huge bonus.
Without the reinforced front, its armour is equivalent to the Red Bull against all common weapons, and it is only more vulnerable against 1 (IIRC, it's been a while).
With the reinforced front, its armour goes just above the threshold against medium bazookas and mortars. Also, IIRC, light field guns and a few other weapons.
Voltigeurs and Red Bulls are indirect fire monsters. Place them hull down behind solid cover and they are horrifying.
Red Bulls would still be vulnerable to mortars. Voltigeurs would not be. Guess what's a really common indirect fire weapon? Yep, mortars with a damage multiplier of 20.
Roll a 6 (about 25%) and you get to damage a Red Bull but not a Voltigeur. You need a 7 for a Voltigeur (about 3%).
Oh, and that Voltigeur can easily be behind full cover when the Red Bull only has partial cover.

The Voltigeurs was clearly designed to be on the right side of all breakpoints in the cost system. It's too accurate to be random.

 HudsonD wrote:
[Unfortunately, DP9 took that as a sign that the new book formula was lightning in a bottle, and went on to try it on the South and other factions...

I don't think they really had a formula. It's more that they believed that the sales proved they were doing perfect work, so anyone complaining about a problem was obviously wrong.
After all, they got a selling book and miniature line by doing whatever they felt like doing, so logically, they should keep doing whatever they feel like doing.
That's logic. Can't argue with logic, especially when it says you are perfect and don't need to change.

 HudsonD wrote:

. "But it was their best sale in a long while !" I can already hear some saying. Yeah. It was a brand new line of minis, released at the height of DP9 marketing efforts. And it sold well. Duh. This was a time when DP9 also got that deal for a battlefoam bag, a line of reaper paints and big names were putting HG back on their catalog. That's not a coincidence...

The reason Perfect Storm was a success was because it was the first new set of models created in a very long time. Peace River would have had the same reaction, if their models had been staged and released as a large faction, instead of the dribbles that came out here and there. Because the primary reason people get into a wargame is the models. It's not the fluff, nor the rules - those are ancillary (but admittedly important) considerations for the majority of the market.

For Perfect Storm, DP9 had the foresight to create an entirely new faction, with a new aesthetic. That guaranteed sales. But they also made a very heavyweight, glossy book with a corresponding price point. That style of book for a single faction is only really common to GW; the price point sinks it otherwise. But DP9 conflated the success of the new miniatures with the book design - which crippled them when it came to the Southern book. They applied the same book strategy, but didn't incorporate enough new models into the line to make the entire line profitable again. Then with good intentions they doubled down on the North and Peace River books , despite not having the manpower to see them through - or a plan for the miniatures line that would make them profitable.

IMO, DP9's core issue is that they don't quite understand the market they are in. They have created squad based games featuring miniatures with price points characteristic of GW or CB special characters, but they manage their product lines as if there was a steady consumption of basic models (ala GW). They won't break from the setting enough to free up their product lines to allow them to diversify their lines, which leaves many of their models looking very similar, and definitely closes down the possibilities for 'uniqueness'. In short, the RPG mantras of shared technological standards, hard-ish sci-fi and two major polar powers as 'umbrellas' don't leave them room for expansion in any meaningful way.

Let's say that DP9 can't (or won't ) change their manufacturing process. They are very proud of their 'made in Canada' branding, so let's leave that on the table. If you had to create and market a system around a $10-$20 price point for an individual figure, where would you go? Obviously, not squad based - needing 20 models to play (and 5 for a starter set) puts the price point pretty damn high compared to the market standard. And given that an individual model is a fairly expensive investment, you probably want them to be useful in their own right, at least in context of the choices you have available. If a Hunter is $15 and a Jaguar is $15 and I want to sell both of them equally, then they need to each have value in their own right. If the Jaguar is simply better for a nominal TV cost, but is also $15 - I'm going to sell more Jaguars than Hunters, which requires that the production costs (design, sculpting, casting, molding) of the Hunter have to be carried by the Jaguar. Each model that's brought online has to be paid for - either by it's own sales, or another model's sales.

This is the trap that DP9 falls into repeatedly. Someone says 'make an Asp!'. They make it - at cost X - but only sell X / 2 or worse. Or they sell enough to cover X - and never sell anymore. And then the line is huge, with a model that only the fans of the background wanted, and now you have a master, mold and unused inventory gathering dust. And if you have retailer relationships, they have unused inventory - which you don't want to take back. They made the mistake with the South, they are making it with Peace River and they'll probably make it with the North if they ever get around to it.

They need to break some of the old fluff up, and rewrite it to be more suitable for a wargame. Make the 'subfactions' of the North and South more distinct - including new models - such that they can become individual factions on their own. Spread the existing models across them, so that no models are invalidated (excepting for hand-held weapon swaps) and allow 'pick and choose' army building that comes with some premium to allow older collectors to retain their forces as is. Focus the game on 3 man squads, so you can get easier buy-in - and make each model have enough character to carry that decision. Expand the background to allow non-Gear factions to be easier to pickup and play, because that broadens your base. And yes, expand into Gundam / Armored Core / Chromehounds / Battletech asethetics, with your own spin, to further broaden the base. Follow the Malifaux model for books and cater to all factions, because books represent a significant investment in resources and should be treated like the sunk cost that they are.

Those are my rambling thoughts on how to ressurect DP9. I don't know their financials, so some of this may be simply impossible or not practical based upon where they are. I've thought long and hard about I'd run the game, and that's what I see as places to improve, though...

Ice, I don't disagree with most of your points, but:

 IceRaptor wrote:

The reason Perfect Storm was a success was because it was the first new set of models created in a very long time. Peace River would have had the same reaction, if their models had been staged and released as a large faction, instead of the dribbles that came out here and there. Because the primary reason people get into a wargame is the models. It's not the fluff, nor the rules - those are ancillary (but admittedly important) considerations for the majority of the market.

Minis get you the initial sale. They get attention. Rules get you all the other sales. That's one of DP9 many mistake, over-focusing on miniatures and initial sales and under-focusing on rules. You need both if you want to stay in business.
Good looking minis to get their attention, good rules to keep their attention and to get them to sell for you. Get both or don't bother.
The last thing you want is for player to pay attention because of your minis and realize that your game is bad. That's the best way to get a reputation like DP9's.

 IceRaptor wrote:

Expand the background to allow non-Gear factions to be easier to pickup and play, because that broadens your base. And yes, expand into Gundam / Armored Core / Chromehounds / Battletech asethetics, with your own spin, to further broaden the base.

That's not broadening the base. That's completely changing focus. Do that, and you will lose players. If you want to create a new game, create a new game. Instead of taking away a setting, create a new one.
Let's say... Giant Robot, in a more heroic setting... We could set it in space, in the solar system... In colonies around a gas giant, like Neptune! Something heroic, like a saga. Let's call it Neptunian Sagas!
That way, it's possible to get a new audience without slapping the existing audience in the face. Changing the entire focus of a game to get a new audience is nice and all, except that it makes a company untrustworthy.
Even if a company moves in a direction I like, I'm not buying if they throw their player base under the bus to do it. I don't want to be thrown under a bus. It's just not clean there.

mrondeau wrote:

Minis get you the initial sale. They get attention. Rules get you all the other sales. ... You need both if you want to stay in business.
Good looking minis to get their attention, good rules to keep their attention and to get them to sell for you. Get both or don't bother.

I agree in large part. Rules and fluff are vitally important for maintaining player engagement, most certainly. A successful business requires both solid miniatures and rules, but also needs fluff, community engagement and a known path for the future. You need all of that to be successful, not just good miniatures and rules. That's why I lumped them in as 'ancillary' concerns - you can just be a miniatures company, like Reaper or any of the companies that make WW2 minis. You won't have great profits, more than likely - but you can make it. It just requires you to have a larger spectrum of models, or a specific niche, to fit into. And you can be just rules as well, though that is much harder, in my opinion. Having a 'turnkey' solution appears to be the best approach.

mrondeau wrote:

That's not broadening the base. That's completely changing focus. Do that, and you will lose players. If you want to create a new game, create a new game. Instead of taking away a setting, create a new one.
...
That way, it's possible to get a new audience without slapping the existing audience in the face. Changing the entire focus of a game to get a new audience is nice and all, except that it makes a company untrustworthy.

I have to disagree. You need some amount of faithfulness to the setting, if (and only if) there's value in maintaining that old customer base and / or it provides you ready-made resources. There's currently value in the HG setting, but already it's been expanded to allow Caprican walkers, brain-in-the-jar infantry, hover tanks, etc. You have to decide if choosing to allow a humanoid walker without a V-engine is so completely immersion breaking that it's not a good thing, or decide that the setting can expand to accommodate such a design.

NuCoal and Paxton are both hampered by the fact that the North and South already cornered most of the interesting design aesthetics that are possible when you have a 4m humanoid with skates on their feet, a V-engine and rocket pods. They went with alternate designs for Peace River like the Red Bull and Coyote, and then for NuCoal they just mixed and matched existing factions. Where do they go from here? How do you add to the existing aesthetic in a way that's representative at 1/144 scale? It's already fairly difficult to tell a Hunter from a Warrior IV and a Jager from a Chasseur MK1, especially from the front.

If there was a market for Chromehound style models (and to be clear, I'm not saying they are, just theorizing) then they need to decide if adding that style of model as an alternate Caprican faction or New Jerusalem faction damages their brand, or allows them to expand into a different subset of mecha players. If they wanted to introduce Gundams (oh wait... they did with the Hussar) they'd need to decide if that was damaging to their market, or not. But they need the flexibility to expand beyond North, South and 'North or South remixed' - which is where I feel Peace River and NuCoal are.

mrondeau wrote:

Even if a company moves in a direction I like, I'm not buying if they throw their player base under the bus to do it. I don't want to be thrown under a bus. It's just not clean there.

But we should all be used to it, by now...

The problem is not the aesthetic, it's the realism of the designs.
I have no problem with walker without V-engine, especially if they are not from Terra Nova. I have problems with Gear-Striders and co (including the first such abomination, the Cataphract. I used it, but I considered it a bad move), with heroic-ish minis, with over-sized stupid melees weapons and with horrors like the Drakes.

It's not the number of legs that matter, it's how reasonable the model is. You can add aesthetics to the setting by adding new factions with their own doctrine and equipment, as long as they come from the same universe.
Drake, gear-striders et al. are not from the same universe. That's the problem.


EDIT: write, read, preview, edit, preview again then post. Do not do in reverse order.

mrondeau wrote:
The problem is not the aesthetic, it's the realism of the designs.
I have no problem with walker without V-engine, especially if they are not from Terra Nova. I have problems with Gear-Striders and co (including the first such abomination, the Cataphract. I used it, but I considered it a bad move), with heroic-ish minis, with over-sized stupid melees weapons and with horrors like the Drakes.
It's not the number of legs that matter, it's how reasonable the model is. You can add aesthetics to the setting by adding new factions with their own doctrine and equipment, as long as they come from the same universe.
Drake, gear-striders et al. are not from the same universe. That's the problem.

I'm not sure "realism" is the best word there, I'd rather use "coherent (with the setting)" for the designs.
HG aims for "reasonnable realism", or at least used to.

I do so hate this board's software.

Anyway. Well said Ice. Nucoal was definitely a short term gain and a long term loss IMHO. And I also agree that they should've tried to make more distinct factions. I don't have sales numbers though, so I don't really know what has worked, and hasn't worked for them. I don't think Caprice did well, but it had the combination of expensive models, gakky rules and personally the models didn't look that good either. Utopia had cheaper models, but fugly, though at least the rules started out decent, but then got nerfed into oblivion, and some of it I don't think was even intentional, but just stupid oversights. Like the melee range being expanded.

I'm assuming they're doing alright with the CEF, though I don't know if frames or hovertanks sell better. They are the faction that's visually distinct from the others and prominent. And doesn't have a model that are statistically identical to everyone elses. (Hello Jaguar, Mamba, Chasseur, Warrior IV)

While I'm still anti-gundam, I do think a visually distinct faction could've been added that was more respectful to the setting. I dig tankstriders, a faction that was made up of models similar to Coyotes -- minus that stupid head it has, and definitely not the stupid tank with arms that Nucoal got.

I rather like the Caprice designs but agree on the price and rules. If my interest in paying for more HG hadn't plopped into the toilet last year, I'd have gotten a Caprice army to complete my collection. I wanted a good cross section of model variety (gears, striders, infantry, and tanks) which my nucoal and caprice factions would have provided along with the traditional matchup of South vs North made up primarily of gears.

One thing the Beta did seem to fix was Caprice. They looked to be viable, at least on paper. As opposed to being that army that pays huge penalties for having turret mounted weapons on walkers that can turn for free anyway. Stupid Sil holdovers.

Heavy gear has a certain realistic style for sure. Look at drop zone commander or the new planetfall game, they have there own style but put them next to a heavy gear model and they look more like a video game. As far as rules go heavy gear has always tried to portray its own version of gritty realism which I appreciate. These are the things to me that are positives of the brand. I'm open to a new game that has these same qualities or just do heavy gear very good. The balance and point system needs to be fixed but really that's with most games. This might never be huge like the GW stuff but really is that so bad? I just don't want them to try too hard to get everybody happy with aliens and Starcraft style factions. Take it with a grain of salt though, I really like the Nucoal stuff

Heavy Gear's problem isn't realism or lack thereof. Of course walkers are pointless, but these walkers will get slaughtered by tanks, run on gas, and have machine guns. No teenagers or laser swords here! HG runs into problems when the rules get broken. You can sell a lot of ridiculous crap off as realistic, so long as it has internal consistency. Magic is perfectly believable in fiction - if you give it rules, and then abide by those rules. The Hussar takes the rules, (not the game rules, the rules of reality in-setting) does horrible things to them, and gives 9 months later the Jerboa appears.

My other MASSIVE problem with NuCoal, and everything that came after, is the homogenization. EVERYONE gets a Gearstrider! EVERYONE gets a buttwheel! It's stupid, and ruins the marginal design differences the factions had.

Remember when they blew up Peace River? Be a shame if that happened again. Real shame.

Yeah, Nucoal, they finally had the opportunity to introduce a faction that didn't have the lynchpin carbon copy elite gear...and they did it anyway. Nukies would've been just fine without the Cuirasser.

(Though I also think it was bunk to give them hover gears, as it stomped on the uniqueness of CEF's Frames -- not to mention they were better than frames)

ferrous wrote:
Yeah, Nucoal, they finally had the opportunity to introduce a faction that didn't have the lynchpin carbon copy elite gear...and they did it anyway. Nukies would've been just fine without the Cuirasser.

(Though I also think it was bunk to give them hover gears, as it stomped on the uniqueness of CEF's Frames -- not to mention they were better than frames)

And hovertanks (ALL the hovertanks ever, actually)
And the best transports in the whole game (hover, too, for added sting)
And ECCMs in every CGL
And sat uplinks everywhere
And GRELs
And Gearstriders
And not-Ferrets
And basically every northern/southern stuff that stroke their fancy
And super stealth gears (funny that)
And super mountain gears (without all that many mountains, compared with the north, that conspicuosuly really don't have them)

...anyways, moving on >_>

You forgot supergrels as an upgrade for every gear CGL that make them two action models.

 warboss wrote:
You forgot supergrels as an upgrade for every gear CGL that make them two action models.

Ah, right. That too >_>

A little birdie (or technically wolfie) just informed me that the updated beta files are apparently up. I'm off to go see what changed...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:

 warboss wrote:
You forgot supergrels as an upgrade for every gear CGL that make them two action models.

Ah, right. That too >_>

It's understandable. It is quite easy to forget a single slice of cheese when you post that many bricks of it in one post.

On reasonable realism:

Particularly, albeit not exclusively to the company's most current incarnation, over the past decade the understanding of military science possessed by [The Powers That Be] at Dream Pod 9, plus their all but complete unwillingness to have the subject explained to them, as the publishers of a mechanized combined arms "war"game has been utterly absurd.

Because in my opinion performing the work necessary to create a detailed world as core to their science-fiction setting, with essentially unlimited land area as one of the basic tenets, but then including force organizations complete with tactics modeled on those the company's physical home nation planned to use as an allied adjunct to a conventional linear repeat of WW2 approaches truly monumental levels of short-sightedness.

Even more so while never subsequently deviating from those ideas except in the lamest possible direction no matter how many times better rationales or more workable concepts get presented.


Amusingly enough the Pod has long shared one highly counter-productive trait in particular as practiced by a number of real world nation-state military forces: organizational arrogance.

_
_

 warboss wrote:
It's understandable. It is quite easy to forget a single slice of cheese when you post that many bricks of it in one post.

Heh. Yeah. I guess that it should suffice to say that the NuCoal is basically the "ME TOO!!!" faction.

Anything you have, they have it too.
Anything you can't have, they have it too.

Would that be general enough?

The announcement is great because it falls close to the kick off of a Kickstarter that will catapult Heavy Gear back into the spotlight. You, the players, are making this game better because we are listening to your suggestions

The Pod, this morning on Facebook. Those are some... interesting word choices.

 Albertorius wrote:

 warboss wrote:
It's understandable. It is quite easy to forget a single slice of cheese when you post that many bricks of it in one post.

Heh. Yeah. I guess that it should suffice to say that the NuCoal is basically the "ME TOO!!!" faction.

Anything you have, they have it too.
Anything you can't have, they have it too.

Would that be general enough?

Generalissimo enough.

 Albertorius wrote:

 warboss wrote:
It's understandable. It is quite easy to forget a single slice of cheese when you post that many bricks of it in one post.

Heh. Yeah. I guess that it should suffice to say that the NuCoal is basically the "ME TOO!!!" faction.

Anything you have, they have it too.
Anything you can't have, they have it too.

Would that be general enough?

Hey, at least Nucoal is white collar theft. Paxton mugs you in a dark alley just to get more of what they already have and you can't even use it yourself! *Looking at the Wolf strider that Paxton stole... the only new northern model I wanted to buy* :(

 Firebreak wrote:

The announcement is great because it falls close to the kick off of a Kickstarter that will catapult Heavy Gear back into the spotlight. You, the players, are making this game better because we are listening to your suggestions

The Pod, this morning on Facebook. Those are some... interesting word choices.

First, English is my second language. I only started speaking it during my work day when I started studying at McGill, and reading, watching movies and book more or less exclusively in English about 10 years ago (I like science-fiction and hate translations), so I might be missing something when I say that this is an awkward sentence structure.

Second, nothing makes me feel listened to like being told I'm being listened to. Oh. Wait. No. The opposite. How much I'm being listened to is usually inversely proportional to how much I'm told I'm being listened to, so I tend to feel less listened to when I'm told I'm being listened to. Weird, eh ?

EDIT:Missed a "listened to". Should have revised to myself, instead of telling myself I'm being revised to.

I'm glad that the kickstarter is coming soon. As I said before, I'm very curious to see the true worldwide (or at least North American) size of the HG community willing to support future products.

Yeah, it will be interesting to see. I was surprised at the lack of support for the video game revival, considering the outpouring of support of the Battletech game. But then again, that was one of the most poorly handled KS that I'd seen, and the developers behind it managed to seem shady. I wonder if the Pod will learn from those guys' mistakes.

 warboss wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 warboss wrote:
It is quite easy to forget a single slice of cheese when you post that many bricks of it in one post.

I guess that it should suffice to say that the NuCoal is basically the "ME TOO!!!" faction.

Hey, at least Nucoal is white collar theft. Paxton mugs you in a dark alley just to get more of what they already have and you can't even use it yourself! *Looking at the Wolf strider that Paxton stole... the only new northern model I wanted to buy.*

What if anything happened with your NuCoal army list issues with the update?

 Firebreak wrote:

Dream Pod 9 wrote:The announcement is great because it falls close to the kick off of a Kickstarter that will catapult Heavy Gear back into the spotlight. You, the players, are making this game better because we are listening to your suggestions

The Pod, this morning on Facebook. Those are some... interesting word choices.

mrondeau wrote:
[..] nothing makes me feel listened to like being told I'm being listened to. Oh. Wait. No. The opposite. How much I'm being listened to is usually inversely proportional to how much I'm told I'm being listened to, so I tend to feel less listened to when I'm told I'm being listened to. Weird, eh?

No kidding.


Although I thought the accompanying "great big hugs to our supporters" that generated two whole responses is about as questionable.

Dave, Wed 24 Sep 2014 at 10:00 AM wrote:It doesn't get said often enough that we have to give a big thanks to our supporters, fans, and players.
Without you none of this would exist and we are always working to build on this faith you show in us.
And most of all thanks for pointing our our mistakes, it is very much appreciated.

Especially given the 40 odd pages here and 78 pages on RPG.net about how pointing out the company's obvious and not so obvious mistakes and/or missteps is quite often absolutely what TPTB at the Pod do not want to hear.


The thoughts behind that we thank you forum thread of his are also somewhat different from what he posted in the development blog, where as per usual folks are specifically asked to promote the game when DP9 still isn't doing it themselves beyond their own FB page and web-forum.

Dave wrote:Once again a big thanks to our fans who openly engage with us promote the heck out of Heavy Gear, don't forget to share the link to the rules in your social media, lets get the ball rolling for Heavy Gear!

Kind of telling that he put conditions on which fans he was thanking.
Hell, the "so well received" Beta rules still don't even have one of the typical 4 or 5 star pseudo-reviews on the distribution site a month plus later since release.
The few players or fans on Board Game Geek also seem to have checked out of doing anything related to Heavy Gear during this "big new things" year.


Dream Pod 9 really goes out of their way to maintain their "head in the sand" organizational arrogance - so yeah, it should be pretty interesting to see how the KS turns out.

 Smilodon_UP wrote:
What if anything happened with your NuCoal army list issues with the update?

I should be ok. There seems to be a glut of ally choices now with Nucoal (I could field all three of my armies together as one force if my reading of the rules is correct) and it isn't the way I would have chosen to implement it but beggars can't be choosers and I've got what I wanted which is a legal Nucoal force. I did a quick napkin math check of my other polar armies and I didn't see anything particularly alarming or completely illegal.... just some no brainer choices for which sublists to take. I did have a question though about the lack of any CMD trait recon gears for the north that someone else brought to my attention as well since they don't seem to be missing from other factions.

Case in point for "organizational arrogance" from yet another of Dave's messages where as per usual 'Please Promote Us (TM)' got worked into it.

Dave on Friday, 26 Sep 14 at 7:49 PM wrote:Normally when we post an announcement or news it only goes out to maybe 20% of the people who liked the page
But do you know what works the best? Direct e-mails to your friends with a link to the download. It works on the principal that if I like something then my friends will probably also like it.

uhm... Hey.... Maybe share announcements to more than two whole locations on the world-wide-web, and then yeah, there might be folks talking about things somewhere with a high, active, subscriber count.
Something beyond folks complaining about endless examples of boneheadedness that is.

Provided of course enough people still like where the company is taking the rules, art, and models... which I notice isn't ever one of the allowed options when TPTB make their assumptions for planning purposes.

For example, the Google+ HG community, which essentially consists of Brandon_KF as the active member and a very small handful of occasionally active people.
While typical of most communities on G+, it still begs the question of just where the heck are all of these "supportive fans and players" the Pod keeps mentioning, as an actuality and not just wishful thinking.

 warboss wrote:
I did have a question though about the lack of any CMD trait recon gears for the north that someone else brought to my attention as well since they don't seem to be missing from other factions.

Yeah, looks like there was no one willing to make a case for including, or else be a fan of, more Weasel variations like the Tattletale as well as the SECCOM models.
Because how North got presented in the Beta threw out at least two years of thinking and/or work by multiple folks just so Robert could do what he wanted, which was basically to include just one model.

I notice though I'm catching blame as yet for having absolutely no control over any of that.
But then favored folks saying those kinds of things regardless of actual reality is nothing new around DP9-ville.

_
_

To the cry of "Please promote us!" I have to ask... Why? I love Heavy Gear, I love Terra Nova, but I don't love what's happening right now.

"Hey friends! Come get into this awesome game that... well no, don't, actually, give it a year first then maybe there will be concise rules. I mean we could just play with the half dozen odd rulebooks they have now, some of them are even free! But yeah, you're right - that IS a lot of PDFs to flip through for a new game we're not at all familiar with. Well hey let's just get some of the models, they're awesome. Huh. Huuuuuuh I dunno that IS kinda pricey. They're very good minis, but what if I don't even wind up sticking with that faction when the game comes out next year sometime? Or what if we can't use that model anymore? ...wait, why did I e-mail you again?"

I just.... I feel like throwing up one of those tumblr "LET ME LOVE YOU" gifs sometimes, you know? I want to like this, but what is there to promote? A new rule system sometime? Now is an AWFUL time to get into Heavy Gear. And if they want people promoting it as a NEW game (which I'm starting to think they should do, honestly) then everything that currently exists is just baggage. "Look at this rich 20 year history! (That you might as well ignore come Gencon 2015 [we hope.])"

I agree that getting people excited about HG with all the uncertainty is an uphill battle. I'm not really worried though about the "tell everyone on facebook" post by Dave as I agree that it would help the game if done by those genuinely excited moreso than cynical. That said... it is NOT a replacement for proper advertisement and dissemination of information on third party sites like dakka/TMP/TGN but rather an adjunct. The call to arms should be done along with a traditional media blitz (hurr hurr). I suspect we've pretty much reached the saturation point at least with this thread in attracting new blood as I haven't seen the poll numbers move in quite a while.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Smilodon: I don't think you're catching any blame but rather he is stating an opinion the jives with what I remember (in that you focused on LW and didn't talk much with Dave about it and how it affects Nublitz.. feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). In any case, DP9 have had the finished published version for several months which hopefully would be enough time to start adding in some of the variants if they feel there is a need in the northern lineup.

 warboss wrote:
@Smilodon: I don't think you're catching any blame but rather he is stating an opinion the jives with what I remember (in that you focused on LW and didn't talk much with Dave about it and how it affects Nublitz.. feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).

My one and only "conversation" with Dave was when he slapped me down during the "we are going to carry on using the term 'mecha" from Badlands Rally into the Alpha" thread before going on to say during the next page that yes, he wants to hear everything, no matter how critical.

No worries though, I don't think I ever mentioned before that I was never consulted at all about the revamp army lists while writing up the Northern book, or that I was never invited into any of the special sections of the Pod forum to discuss anything.
And my first clue anything was being intended differently with the HGB! field guide post-testing was Robert's email on May 5th, four months after turning in the project, which prior to that had involved three months or so of work after languishing without progress around a year and a half.

 warboss wrote:
In any case, DP9 have had the finished published version for several months which hopefully would be enough time to start adding in some of the variants if they feel there is a need in the northern lineup.

Considering which ones did make it in, and how poorly the names got done in large part, I have this feeling that anything that didn't make the cut was in all probability an intentional omission.

_
_

Woops. Seems I got the KS feedback thread locked.