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 warboss wrote:
Wow... the last week just disappeared from the thread and Dave's been locking multiple threads as well. I guess my prediction of him only pruning the disagreement out of the forum was entirely correct instead of addressing the underlying issues.

Reminds me of some other company with a long history and engaged right now in a "mecha" miniatures game.

...can't remember the name of that other company, though. Something like Iridium?


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BrandonKF wrote:

If you don't mind crunch, Tactical fits for small squadrons and cadres.

If you want speed, original Blitz can work.

Other than that, you can also look at warboss' Flash subset in his blog or the Gear-finity ruleset in my own blog.

Hope that helps.

Seriously, that is simply not true, in my experience. Tactical, when using the recommended simplified damage rules, goes as fast or faster than Blitz.


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 warboss wrote:
It is likely the response to my premonition about the thread being pruned and/or locked in response to negative feedback that called him a dumb jerk (that is the family friendly way of putting it) if he did that probably didn't help. In any case, the Palladiumification of the forum begins...

You mean continues, surely?

warboss wrote:Wow... the last week just disappeared from the thread and Dave's been locking multiple threads as well.

That was thorough. The entire KS thread is gone
EDIT: Entire thread was not deleted; Based on date of last post, it was pruned, but I did not take notes, so I can't confirm. My mistake.

Firebreak wrote:
However, I, for one, am glad that market research on groceries is directly applicable to the art in traditional games.

That non-sequitur was really not sequituring. I think he was trying to say that having a choice of art style (in the same book?) is good, because customers want choice ?
Or something like that. I would have to cut coffee completely for a few months to understand that logic.

Firebreak wrote:I guess convention goers need to buy him more drinks.

That's a perfect example of DP9. First, they don't want customers, they want "friends." Friends that pay for whatever they have to sell, work for free, keep telling them that they are the best, and buy whatever they have to sell again.
Second, they don't realize that the whole point of a playtest (or any form of feedback) is for players to hear grievances! That's what it's for! If you are happy after a meeting with testers, they are not doing their jobs.

mrondeau wrote:

warboss wrote:Wow... the last week just disappeared from the thread and Dave's been locking multiple threads as well.

That was thorough. The entire KS thread is gone.

Indeed, good catch. There was alot of good feedback and ideas in both but I guess he wasn't interested in that apparently and preferred to just throw the baby out with the bathwater.

It isn't gone. He unpinned it.

 warboss wrote:
Indeed, good catch. There was alot of good feedback and ideas in both but I guess he wasn't interested in that apparently and preferred to just throw the baby out with the bathwater.

It seems to be what he does, going by the examples at hand.

EDIT: Also, according to the latest feedback, the SECCOM Cheetahs are going to be the Pod's briefest vehicle ever, or whereabouts.

I'll repeat, he unpinned the KS thread.

BrandonKF wrote:
I'll repeat, he unpinned the KS thread.

Before or after pruning?

Telling you where it is.

BrandonKF wrote:
Telling you where it is.

What I meant is: has he just unpinned it, or has he also pruned the thread?

Could you post a link, Brandon? I don't see any of my recent posts there going back multiple weeks nor is it on the "recent threads" tab of the forum going back a week.

This is the link I found. I can't say whether it has been pruned or not. You will have to see for yourselves I guess.

http://dp9forum.com/index.php?showtopic=16387

Well, at the very least everything after the 28th has been cut.

You mean the discussion about the art? It is there.

That discussion continued far after warboss' post

Not that I recall. I remember because I was about to write something at the time I saw Dave post.

Hm. Maybe I'm mixing two threads in one, then?

Perhaps, we made a lot of guff about art recently. Speaking of which, I just asked in my own poll for help. I know what I like, and I know a Lotta folks are asking for Ghislain Barbe to return, but if he were not to, can anyone help out by getting different types of mecha illustrations for this poll?

Yeah, it's been pruned and locked. Thanks for finding it, Brandon, as I couldn't find it yesterday. Maybe it was hidden while he pruned or maybe I just missed it. In any case, that discussion is over and I suspect alot more discussion won't be welcome judging from the number of locked threads. Alot of constructive criticism was pruned along with some bile but the two frequently are linked when you're talking about something whose journey has been as flawed with preventable problems as HG.


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edit: Somehow Ghostrider managed to get in a post in the closed gencon thread since Dave locked it unnecessarily.

 warboss wrote:
edit: Somehow Ghostrider managed to get in a post in the closed gencon thread since Dave locked it unnecessarily.

Ghostrider is a mod.

BrandonKF wrote:
This is the link I found. I can't say whether it has been pruned or not. You will have to see for yourselves I guess.

http://dp9forum.com/index.php?showtopic=16387

I don't see any hidden posts on this thread going back from page 15-12 or so. It's possible to delete posts completely, but that's not how it's generally done.

The September Update thread got pretty heavily moderated. I don't agree with every comment that was moderated, but i do think trying to answer most of them would be better than hiding them. Then again if I was king I'd be putting up signs saying "Is this true to the 1st/2nd edition Heavy Gear canon?" all over the place.

I am not king. I moderate forums for beer money. I don't even drink that much.

 Balance wrote:

The September Update thread got pretty heavily moderated. I don't agree with every comment that was moderated, but i do think trying to answer most of them would be better than hiding them. Then again if I was king I'd be putting up signs saying "Is this true to the 1st/2nd edition Heavy Gear canon?" all over the place.

And I would probably (certainly) thank you for that, but it would likely not be good for the game as a miniatures game, unfortunately.

 IceRaptor wrote:

 warboss wrote:
edit: Somehow Ghostrider managed to get in a post in the closed gencon thread since Dave locked it unnecessarily.

Ghostrider is a mod.

Ah, that would explain it. I remember LCM being a mod but didn't know Ghost was.


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 Balance wrote:

BrandonKF wrote:
This is the link I found. I can't say whether it has been pruned or not. You will have to see for yourselves I guess.

http://dp9forum.com/index.php?showtopic=16387

I don't see any hidden posts on this thread going back from page 15-12 or so. It's possible to delete posts completely, but that's not how it's generally done.

There are a fair amount of missing posts that were there after mine. Despite the time stamps, Dave did NOT post minutes after my last Ghislain Barbe comment there. IIRC, I posted a few times in the thread after that as well. It was getting a bit toxic there (and I was contributing to that admittedly) but locking, pruning, and warning just exacerbate the problem if none of the valid issues are addressed. I can always gripe here (within the scope of the Dakka rules of course) and Kevin and Dave can't do much about that. Eh, que sera, sera. If Dave doesn't want open discussion, he likely won't get it then but it would be naive to think it won't have consequences that affect the future KS.

In any case, I just saw your post in the update thread. Thanks for that.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Balance wrote:

The September Update thread got pretty heavily moderated. I don't agree with every comment that was moderated, but i do think trying to answer most of them would be better than hiding them. Then again if I was king I'd be putting up signs saying "Is this true to the 1st/2nd edition Heavy Gear canon?" all over the place.

And I would probably (certainly) thank you for that, but it would likely not be good for the game as a miniatures game, unfortunately.

Again, saying if I was in charge, which I am most certainly not I'd probably try to strike a balance between the canon and game value. I am open to some of the beta ideas of consolidating weapons, reassigning existing weapons to different game weapon 'classes' and even modifying set numeric statistics to better fit the rules... If they're true to the written descriptions. (I.E. if a unit is described as 'slow and lumbering' it should keep a low movement value, but it's not a problem if that specific value gets tweaked from 3 to 4 to make the unit more useful, for example.)

What I like less is retconing entire designs out of the game and such. It's disrespectful to the game and the players, I feel. I've occasioanlly said that at this point Heavy Gear games are almost akin to a WWII or other historical game in that there's a ton of background (occasionally contradictory) and the developers need to work with that, not try to change it. if A WWII game can't support King Tigers and Shermans on the same field, that's a flaw int he game, not a flaw in the setting.

For example the above was a reason I suggested reconsidering the idea of moving to a d10 system. Such a move is certainly not without issues, but it provides a bit more range for more viable settings to allow more differentiation. I'm not saying it was a fix to every issue or even the right choice, but I feel it was discarded without comment because it would have been too hard.

Sorry. I wasn't keeping track of page count. I don't know what constitutes bile. I know I vigorously defend my own ideas. So if anything I wrote helped cause it I apologize.

Edit: It's a idea I think has been tossed around a lot, changing the dice.

 warboss wrote:

There are a fair amount of missing posts that were there after mine. Despite the time stamps, Dave did NOT post minutes after my last Ghislain Barbe comment there. IIRC, I posted a few times in the thread after that as well. It was getting a bit toxic there (and I was contributing to that admittedly) but locking, pruning, and warning just exacerbate the problem if none of the valid issues are addressed. I can always gripe here (within the scope of the Dakka rules of course) and Kevin and Dave can't do much about that. Eh, que sera, sera. If Dave doesn't want open discussion, he likely won't get it then but it would be naive to think it won't have consequences that affect the future KS.

He might have used a different deletion method, possibly. IP.Board tends to have 2-3 ways to do many tasks. I wish I had been able to jsutify the cost of moving to another forum a couple years back, but it would have cost a ton unless it was a clean start. Editing time stamps is a bit more of a pain, I think. Never really tried it, and I would have thought you'd need to mess with the database, which is more trouble than it's worth, but it's certainly possible there's some hidden option.

I have tried to make the point to the TPTB that shutting down a conversation on a forum doesn't kill the conversation, it just moves it elsewhere. Where there's no real way to respond, at least.

Balance wrote:
I have tried to make the point to the TPTB that shutting down a conversation on a forum doesn't kill the conversation, it just moves it elsewhere. Where there's no real way to respond, at least.

Well hey now, remember when they shut down Napster, and sharing music files stopped? It's not like the internet is giant and free, or anything. How could deleting posts possibly fail to contain unwelcome discussion?



I wonder what they'll do when these kinds of questions and conversations appear on the Kickstarter.

 Balance wrote:

For example the above was a reason I suggested reconsidering the idea of moving to a d10 system. Such a move is certainly not without issues, but it provides a bit more range for more viable settings to allow more differentiation. I'm not saying it was a fix to every issue or even the right choice, but I feel it was discarded without comment because it would have been too hard.

I lobbied for change to D10 internally - primarily to Jason, but also to Dave. In both cases it was discarded more for business reasons, more than anything else. I did note that while D10s don't fix the issues with Sil's modifiers, it does water them down significantly enough that most players would be happy with the result. But the desire to ditch the multiplication and division steps overruled the idea of simply keeping Sil and using D10s instead of D6s. I tried to get them into MA as well - but the business call that D6s were more common was made and my hands were tied.

I'm personally quite fond of D10s, especially with a Sil style 'roll and keep highest' - but the business side simply never wanted to explore that possibility :(

 Balance wrote:

I have tried to make the point to the TPTB that shutting down a conversation on a forum doesn't kill the conversation, it just moves it elsewhere. Where there's no real way to respond, at least.

... You mean to places where people can actually speak their mind, like Dakka ?

D6's are hard to move away from. It's much easier to get your hands on a bunch of D6s. A kid can simply go raid old board games like Monopoly or Yahtzee. And 40k being the juggernaut it is, players have lots of d6s lying around.

Though I do agree, it would've helped mask some of the sils problematic issues, and open up the game to larger modifiers, leading to greater stat variety.

And yeah, the banning and pruning, just makes the place much more of a yes-man echo chamber than it already was. Which is a shame, seems like they are managing to shrink their fanbase over time. Though the KS will really be the determinant.

BrandonKF wrote:Sorry. I wasn't keeping track of page count. I don't know what constitutes bile. I know I vigorously defend my own ideas. So if anything I wrote helped cause it I apologize.

I don't think you offended anyone there from what I saw but I haven't been following that closely.

Balance wrote:
I have tried to make the point to the TPTB that shutting down a conversation on a forum doesn't kill the conversation, it just moves it elsewhere. Where there's no real way to respond, at least.

I suspect that Smilodon will get a kick out of seeing someone use his term "TPTB" that have entered the lexicon (including my nublitz). Viva la resistance!