Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 warboss wrote:
I wouldn't even bother doing that. I've been on the forums long enough to notice a pattern. Eventually the vast majority of the new yet ardent defenders of Maiden Dubois' honor burn out after a while when they realize that the emperor indeed has no clothes. It may take a few months or even a year but they finally realize that DP9 does not share any of the same priorities with a customer and frequently is diametrically opposed to them.

Also, I checked my profile page and Robert visited since I posted. The eye of sauron is open me! The gaze... it burns!

This post is a thing of beauty. It ought to be bronzed and placed above a mantle.

 warboss wrote:
I wouldn't even bother doing that. I've been on the forums long enough to notice a pattern. Eventually the vast majority of the new yet ardent defenders of Maiden Dubois' honor burn out after a while when they realize that the emperor indeed has no clothes. It may take a few months or even a year but they finally realize that DP9 does not share any of the same priorities with a customer and frequently is diametrically opposed to them.

It is, I believe, a rite of passage for new DP9 inductees. To pretend to the title of "true fan", they have to fight old-timers, and show how much more they like a game they often haven't played yet.

 warboss wrote:
Also, I checked my profile page and Robert visited since I posted. The eye of sauron is open me! The gaze... it burns!

You're not the only one... And that's not half of it !

 Firebreak wrote:
Good to know that supporting the company for 20 years and asking questions is whining.

Of course! If you really supported the company, instead of whining, you would be really happy to give them money in exchange of nothing. You would even go out of your way to misread the kickstarter terms so that DP9 has no obligation whatsoever.
Real, non-whining fans would not just avoid asking questions, they would also consider that their place in the DP9-fan relationship is to fork money, and that the only obligation DP9 has towards them is to take that money.

There's a reason I don't post on DP9Forum anymore. I can only type <expletive> so many time in a day before I ruin my keyboard. I need my keyboard! My handwriting is ranked among mankind greatest crimes!

Firebreak, I was wrong. You should ignore BrotherG. He is completely clueless. After telling all us "winners" to go read the KS terms, he has now proclaimed that project creators don't have to give you any of the rewards in return for your money until the project is 100% funded so he is correct. Mind you... it's not "half way, no 80%, nor 99.9%, 100% FUNDED!". Someone really needs to tell him to follow his own advice and go read the KS terms and fine print because, you know, they don't get any of your money until it's not half way, no 80%, nor 99.9%, but 100% FUNDED!

Also, please tell him that "winning" is something Charlie Sheen did after his emotional breakdown a few years back and that he is the only one doing it in that thread in the truest sense of the word.



edit: Looks like Hudson already did although in an incomplete and very polite way. Wow.. just wow.. He's going to be an interesting person to follow on those forums. I logged in to post a response there but stopped myself as I suspect I'm on thin ice for not following the new party line for the KS that we've always have been at war with Eurasia.

mrondeau wrote:

 Firebreak wrote:
Good to know that supporting the company for 20 years and asking questions is whining.

Of course! If you really supported the company, instead of whining, you would be really happy to give them money in exchange of nothing. You would even go out of your way to misread the kickstarter terms so that DP9 has no obligation whatsoever.
Real, non-whining fans would not just avoid asking questions, they would also consider that their place in the DP9-fan relationship is to fork money, and that the only obligation DP9 has towards them is to take that money.

There's a reason I don't post on DP9Forum anymore. I can only type <expletive> so many time in a day before I ruin my keyboard. I need my keyboard! My handwriting is ranked among mankind greatest crimes!

I'm nearly done with them myself. There were some deep breaths and counting backwards from ten last night before I ranted here rather than engaging over there. Which is unfortunate. I posted once a couple years ago about how much I enjoyed just going to the forums, but now it's... not the same.

warboss wrote:Firebreak, I was wrong. You should ignore BrotherG. He is completely clueless. After telling all us "winners" to go read the KS terms, he has now proclaimed that project creators don't have to give you any of the rewards in return for your money until the project is 100% funded so he is correct. Mind you... it's not "half way, no 80%, nor 99.9%, 100% FUNDED!". Someone really needs to tell him to follow his own advice and go read the KS terms and fine print because, you know, they don't get any of your money until it's not half way, no 80%, nor 99.9%, but 100% FUNDED!

Also, please tell him that the folks in the thread that "winning" is something Charlie Sheen did after his emotional breakdown a few years back and that he is the only one doing it in that thread in the truest sense of the word.



edit: Looks like Hudson already did although in an incomplete and very polite way. Wow.. just wow.. He's going to be an interesting person to follow on those forums. I logged in to post a response there but stopped myself as I suspect I'm on thin ice for not following the new party line for the KS that we've always have been at war with Eurasia.

And he did it much more politely than I could have managed, for which I am very grateful.

!!! Hudson is the polite one!!!
We are doooooomed! Doooooooooooooooooooooomed!!!

Yeah, I'd like to apologize if if I ended up saying something polite and socially acceptable, it was not my intent, and won't happen again !

Edit : Ok, this guy is getting a lil' creepy now...

Just put him on ignore, man. He's clearly as interested in actual conversation as Dave is.

(Or troll the crap out of him. )

 warboss wrote:
I wouldn't even bother doing that. I've been on the forums long enough to notice a pattern. Eventually the vast majority of the new yet ardent defenders of Maiden Dubois' honor burn out after a while when they realize that the emperor indeed has no clothes. It may take a few months or even a year but they finally realize that DP9 does not share any of the same priorities with a customer and frequently is diametrically opposed to them.

It does get a tad annoying to keep being told "Trust DP9 and those in charge." by people intentionally or unintentionally ignorant of the company's actual history over the past decade.
An awful lot of folks sure are placing an awful lot of faith on this KS saving both the company and the title.

mrondeau wrote:

 Firebreak wrote:
Good to know that supporting the company for 20 years and asking questions is whining.

Real, non-whining fans would not just avoid asking questions, they would also consider that their place in the DP9-fan relationship is to fork money, and that the only obligation DP9 has towards them is to take that money.

HG has become a game I'd only want to play and talk about with people I already know or those I had observed discussing it in a reasonably rational manner.

 HudsonD wrote:
Ok, this guy is getting a lil' creepy now...

I keep waiting for him to show up over here.

 Firebreak wrote:
Just put him on ignore, man. He's clearly as interested in actual conversation as Dave is.

As far as I can tell in the G+ Heavy Gear group (which IIRC was started by a friend of MechMerc's) Dave & Robert amongst other former TPTB at the Pod are both members but have never said one word, probably because it isn't a venue they can absolutely control and folks there are already spamming Pod announcements for them.

That says a lot about TPTB - as does that neither of them has yet sat on that guy in the KS thread here today when they have never hesitated to slap or mod anyone else for a whole lot less in the past, often within moments.

_
_

http://dp9forum.com/index.php?showtopic=16567&p=290047

To those on the forum who are skeptical or pessimistic I say: Trust DP9 and those in charge. They arent new to this, they are a company who has been around the block...

Whaaaat?? WTF? How on earth could you possibly say that after they've taken the second most popular mech game with several multimedia properties like a tv and lucrative video games and run it into the ground with the same series of mistakes over and over and over and over???

I dont know much about their past ....

Oh... that explains it. *checks profile* Three posts including that one. Yup, it's just willful ignorance mixed with pie in the sky head in the sand optimism.

I'm glad to see them take some of my post to heart with the $80 boxed set but I still think it needs to be padded with more content to make it worth it especially once you add in the $15 shipping that will likely NOT be free. YMMV of course.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

mrondeau wrote:

Of course! If you really supported the company, instead of whining, you would be really happy to give them money in exchange of nothing. You would even go out of your way to misread the kickstarter terms so that DP9 has no obligation whatsoever.
Real, non-whining fans would not just avoid asking questions, they would also consider that their place in the DP9-fan relationship is to fork money, and that the only obligation DP9 has towards them is to take that money.

Unfortunately, that does seem to be the case. I would add the caveat that the only way to get them to consider changing their mind from a selfish plan to something that doesn't screw over the people (barely) keeping them in business is to publicly shame them with necessary drama. Sad but true.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Smilodon_UP wrote:
And with a whole (4) days to go before being made live, this brave new world still isn't being promoted by the company outside of their own forums and facebook page.
_

Don't worry. They've put alot of thought, effort, and planning into this. Robert told me.

In any case, I'm going to try and refrain from commenting on this until the KS actually launches as I've pretty much said all I can and anything more will just be complaining. It will be interesting to gauge what the might morphing 3 player kickstarter turns into by then. Also, we'll see in a few weeks if we right and they don't fund/barely fund or if Robert/Dave are and they hit all 13 of their retail goals... or if it is somewhere in between.

 warboss wrote:
Don't worry. They've put a lot of thought, effort, and planning into this. Robert told me.
In any case, I'm going to try and refrain from commenting on this until the KS actually launches as I've pretty much said all I can and anything more will just be complaining.
Also, we'll see in a few weeks if we're right, and they don't fund/barely fund or if Robert/Dave are, and they hit all 13 of their retail goals... or if it is somewhere in between.

Minus the (40) odd folks that seem to constitute the positive Facebook crowd the Pod should only need another (200) folks to chip in - which apparently is not going to include the non-US & non-Canada folks given where the preview thread comments went last night.
Provided anyways that el presidente's hedged numbers for being initially funded were accurate....

But yeah, I intend to stay far away from pledging money or anything else to the KS. If it succeeds, fine, if not, fine.
I'm sure all the "defeatist malcontent" naysayers of any form will be blamed if it doesn't, but more than a few folks both here and on the Pod forums have already pointed out where TPTB have made choices counter-productive to setting themselves up for a big success.

Dream Pod 9 may just have to settle for "Our KS didn't go as well as we hoped," which has been typical of how they've had to measure success for a number of years now, and that has been due to TPTB.

_
_

I just got around to looking at the newish Peace River figs.

Those vibro axes are awful. I mean, yay, I guess they're smaller than the ginormous oversized halberds that other models have, but they still look huge, and impractical, and tend to give the impression that the game has a heavy melee focus.

Smilodon_UP wrote:
I'm sure all the "defeatist malcontent" naysayers of any form will be blamed if it doesn't.

I'd put a lot of money down on that. "It didn't fail because WE failed. It had nothing to do with lack of promotion, reasonable goals, good prices, interesting bonuses, or desirable miniatures or rules - it was THOSE GUYS YOU KNOW THE ONES. The ones that weren't positive!"

ferrous wrote:I just got around to looking at the newish Peace River figs.

Those vibro axes are awful. I mean, yay, I guess they're smaller than the ginormous oversized halberds that other models have, but they still look huge, and impractical, and tend to give the impression that the game has a heavy melee focus.

But they do look like something you'd see in 40k, which, honestly, isn't that the important thing in tabletop gaming?

What's Buckmaster up to these days? I was reading some older threads about Revisionism and he was just.... brutally honest about things. A little of that would go a long way, right now.

ferrous wrote:
[...] but they still look huge, and impractical, and tend to give the impression that the game has a heavy melee focus.

Given the recent spate of art for Blood Debt & North over the past year or so I would only expect that trend to continue, visually and structurally.

After some less obvious inclusions in the Southern & Paxton field guides melee cropped up again in the NorLight exclusive "Knights of Massada" combat group of Initiate models in Lion's Wrath along with a few other things that got left out
To be honest, I was rather surprised at how little support Arena got from the Pod given the things that went on behind the scenes for the field guides.

 Firebreak wrote:
But they do look like something you'd see in 40k, which, honestly, isn't that the important thing in tabletop gaming?

It seems to be a symptom of the same thing generating wheel-feet models and the original mortar mini as previewed for the Northern infantry.

_
_

 Smilodon_UP wrote:
After some less obvious inclusions in the Southern & Paxton field guides melee cropped up again in the NorLight exclusive "Knights of Massada" combat group of Initiate models in Lion's Wrath along with a few other things that got left out.

...didn't quite catch that until now. So... knights. Of Massada. Birthplace of the Massadan Revisionist faith. The one that difffers from the northern Sorrentian branch in that they promote love and peace to guide humanity to a peaceful time of harmony, and that, unlike the sorrentian believers, are total pacifists, who feel that no violence can EVER be justified.

...and which is NOT part of the North. And who only allowed the posting of the Blue Angels outside the city because they feared that otherwise the North would unilaterally annex the citiy "for its own protection".

That Massada?

Smilodon_UP wrote:It seems to be a symptom of the same thing generating wheel-feet models and the original mortar mini as previewed for the Northern infantry.

Wheel-feet and visors. Can't forget the visors. And torsos with a big chunk cut out of them.

Albertorius wrote:

 Smilodon_UP wrote:
After some less obvious inclusions in the Southern & Paxton field guides melee cropped up again in the NorLight exclusive "Knights of Massada" combat group of Initiate models in Lion's Wrath along with a few other things that got left out.

...didn't quite catch that until now. So... knights. Of Massada. Birthplace of the Massadan Revisionist faith. The one that difffers from the northern Sorrentian branch in that they promote love and peace to guide humanity to a peaceful time of harmony, and that, unlike the sorrentian believers, are total pacifists, who feel that no violence can EVER be justified.

...and which is NOT part of the North. And who only allowed the posting of the Blue Angels outside the city because they feared that otherwise the North would unilaterally annex the citiy "for its own protection".

That Massada?

No, don't be ridiculous! The cool Massada.

 Firebreak wrote:

No, don't be ridiculous! The cool Massada.

Ah, of course. How silly of me

Seriously now... what need did they have to crap all over their own setting? Was really that difficult to just name them Knights of Sorrento or somesuch? (That one at least is, you know, PART of the North, and you could more easily justify an order of militant monks) It's like they're firebombing their own setting on purpose, now.

Or the Dorothean Order, or the Prophet's Shield. You know, one of the actual pseudo-knightly orders they already had. But I guess they didn't sound Space Marine-y enough.

 Firebreak wrote:
Or the Dorothean Order, or the Prophet's Shield. You know, one of the actual pseudo-knightly orders they already had. But I guess they didn't sound Space Marine-y enough.

The Prophet's Shield is a conspiracy , but I could see them fielding a militant order after the Second Follower's murder, yes. Basically anything except the pacifists of the setting.

It's so very sloppy that... well, it's par for the course, unfortunately. Most if not all of the newer stuff has this kind of problems.

Just wanted to jump in to say that as a new player who picked up $350 or so of NuCoal in the last year, I really don't see myself playing any more than the two games I've got in early this year.

The new edition just seems like a horrible quagmire, the company is giving off a ton of warning signs and, honestly, there are so many other options for gaming out there right now that I don't feel the need to send good time and money after bad.

Just thought I'd share the perspective of what was a new player.

Albertorius wrote:

 Firebreak wrote:
Or the Dorothean Order, or the Prophet's Shield. You know, one of the actual pseudo-knightly orders they already had. But I guess they didn't sound Space Marine-y enough.

The Prophet's Shield is a conspiracy , but I could see them fielding a militant order after the Second Follower's murder, yes. Basically anything except the pacifists of the setting.

It's so very sloppy that... well, it's par for the course, unfortunately. Most if not all of the newer stuff has this kind of problems.

What's the problem with pacifist knights? Next you'll tell me that gearstriders don't make sense!

plastictrees wrote:Just wanted to jump in to say that as a new player who picked up $350 or so of NuCoal in the last year, I really don't see myself playing any more than the two games I've got in early this year.

The new edition just seems like a horrible quagmire, the company is giving off a ton of warning signs and, honestly, there are so many other options for gaming out there right now that I don't feel the need to send good time and money after bad.

Just thought I'd share the perspective of what was a new player.

That is always an incredibly valuable insight to have. Unfortunately, the Pod doesn't seem to be aware of the fact that players old and new have problems with the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reading through an old thread today when:

Firebreak wrote:I can absolutely see a "reboot" by new people resetting the game completely. But I can't see people who have put so much work into Terra Nova for so long side-lining it to sell some new models. That's never been how the Pod's operated, even when they revamped scale.

They were brighter, more naive days.

Heh. Yeah, I think most of us have been there ^_^

 Firebreak wrote:
Reading through an old thread today when:

Firebreak wrote:I can absolutely see a "reboot" by new people resetting the game completely. But I can't see people who have put so much work into Terra Nova for so long side-lining it to sell some new models. That's never been how the Pod's operated, even when they revamped scale.

They were brighter, more naive days.

I think I know what happened, you mistook two companies, one that did Heavy Gear, and was named DP9, and one that is named DP9. It's an easy mistake to make, I can't blame you...

So they have a link to their KS as a giant banner ad on their forum page. Except it doesn't work. Clicking it does nothing, just causes a page refresh.

It looks like the KS isn't up yet...but then why update your forum with a link that won't work yet?

ferrous wrote:
So they have a link to their KS as a giant banner ad on their forum page. Except it doesn't work. Clicking it does nothing, just causes a page refresh.

It looks like the KS isn't up yet...but then why update your forum with a link that won't work yet?

Do you really have to ask?
The answer is also the answer to other questions, like 'why does the banner use two resolutions for "K" and "Kickstarter?"', 'Why is the DP9 logo re-scaled so badly?', and 'Why is the banner's colour scheme so wrong?'

mrondeau wrote:

ferrous wrote:
So they have a link to their KS as a giant banner ad on their forum page. Except it doesn't work. Clicking it does nothing, just causes a page refresh.
It looks like the KS isn't up yet...but then why update your forum with a link that won't work yet?

Do you really have to ask?
The answer is also the answer to other questions, like 'why does the banner use two resolutions for "K" and "Kickstarter?"', 'Why is the DP9 logo re-scaled so badly?', and 'Why is the banner's colour scheme so wrong?'

I had to do a web search, filtering the results for the past 24 hours, to find the actual KS page because apparently the idea of doing a post for that took a while to present itself since graphics obviously must come first before cohesion and structure.

_
_

 Smilodon_UP wrote:


Its not like a web search revealing just two whole posts by one firm believer fan on a site aside from his personal blog,

Why is the gearstrider armed with a giant vibrospatula?

Apparently after the antimatter bomb annihilated Peace River, the PRDF operates under the Starship Troopers principle of "everyone fights", including the cooks. I guess Paxton really does do everything bigger and better, even with Barnaby steaks, if they need a full on gear strider armed with an anti-tank trait weapon to do all the cooking! Those puny polar forces would just use a much smaller engineering gear based *only* on a fire support chassis. Heck, they even blow the Texas out of the water in that regard!

All kidding aside, I do appreciate the size comparison pic post though so thanks for that, Brandon (and Alex for linking it here). You'd be surprised to see how little size shots there are for lesser played games outside of the big 5. Heck, even my dakka blog pics regularly come up on the first page of a google image search for Heavy Gear.

They are already up to nearly $7,000 CAD on the KS - not a bad start in the first few hours. Be interesting to see what they look like at the end of Sunday.

ferrous wrote:
So they have a link to their KS as a giant banner ad on their forum page. Except it doesn't work. Clicking it does nothing, just causes a page refresh.

It looks like the KS isn't up yet...but then why update your forum with a link that won't work yet?

I got the art and placed it in about 10 minutes before going to my soul-crushing day job to stare at a spreadsheet all day. It goes to the forums because it's the forum logo, technically. I will try to alter it tonight, but I don't make the art generally, so my options are limited.