Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 IceRaptor wrote:
They are already up to nearly $7,000 CAD on the KS - not a bad start in the first few hours. Be interesting to see what they look like at the end of Sunday.

Cool, I didn't realize they started. It looks like they're up to 93 backers and $11k so far. It might be a good idea for someone enthusiastic about this to start a news and rumor thread about the kickstarter if they're also willing to keep it updated on a daily level with any passed stretch goals. If I go in, it'll be eventually at $1 when caprice stuff is unlocked at which point I'd consider getting more but I'm not the best candidate to take the lead in the meantime as I don't plan on pledging yet.

Does anyone know if the HG campaign will show up under your history if it doesn't fund or do only fully funded projects show up there?

Yeesh, I had to google Heavy Gear Kickstarter, as I couldn't find a link to it on the forums, not even in Dave's post that is literally, "Our Kickstarter is now live!"

And it's not even the first, second or third item in google. It's the fifth thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
(Though it looks like they will make their first goal anyway.)

So am I correct in understanding the scale for the KS minis is different?

I didn't know anything about Heavy Gear back when I was a kid and given the Activision game and loved it. Ever since I found out it was a miniatures game I wanted some northern minis. I like the old (current) sculpts, and want to snatch up a few if they're being replaced by mystery plastic in a different size. Maybe when all is said and done I'd purchase the new minis post-KS but we'll see.

For you Tydil.



Another way of putting it is that no, the scale will not be changing again. RAFM was the only one. The Blitz miniatures are either over-sized or under-sized depending on how they were portrayed in the actual art by Barbe.

I'll actually be happy to see a KS go off, I like that HG is a thing that exists, but years ago I decided that DP9 wouldn't get another dollar from me over the treatment of Jovian Chronicles. Never really cared for Heavy Gear, but I freaking adored JC and I've bought so much stuff I still have DOZENS of mechs and ships in blister even after making larger-than-is-really-playable fleets for Jovians and CEGA.

JC sat in limbo for well over a decade before DP9 finally just admitted it was dead, but for YEARS HG got release after release after release after release and edition after edition while JC had entire factions with only a single mech actually modeled. There were a lot of ships and mechs and fighters that had rules and stat cards in the books but nothing to represent them on the table, all the while DP9 was promising JC wasn't dead and that JC:Blitz! was just around the corner.

It was a very GW mentality - not updating anything because the models weren't selling, but they weren't selling because nothing ever got updated. Meanwhile HG got so many updates that people just walked away from it

The KS is on right now, Kala. And it just passed 24,000 of their initial 27,000.

And we're funded overnight in less than 24 hours. It appears my evaluation of this is not typical. Congrats to DP9 and the pledgers.

Thank you warboss. 32.5 and still going.

Ok, I have to admit that I underestimated the size of the remaining customer base.
I won't congratulate anyone yet. The product has not been delivered. I don't doubt DP9's capacity to get some people to give them money, I doubt DP9's capacity to deliver on their promises.
I'll only offer congratulations if they manage to resurrect the game they have worked so hard to kill.

As it is, they still don't seem to care about the rules, which are now going to be even more of an afterthought since their limited resources have to be used for the kickstarter.
Given their track record, I expect a repeat of Paladium's Robotech kickstarter.

BrandonKF wrote:
For you Tydil.



Another way of putting it is that no, the scale will not be changing again. RAFM was the only one. The Blitz miniatures are either over-sized or under-sized depending on how they were portrayed in the actual art by Barbe.

Help!

As someone interested in this one, but totally new to HG, what am I looking at there?

Far left is Jager. Southern general purpose trooper Gear.
mid left, above quarter, Black Mamba commando.
mid right, above penny, Spitting Cobra fire support Gear.
far left, Iguana scout Gear.

Hope that helps Alpharius.

Sorry, I wasn't specific!

Is that picture showing:

1) Scale issues between models?

2) Scale issues between new models from a new edition and older models from past issues?

I have been looking for a mecha game in this scale for a long time, but don't know much about...any of them!

Ideally it would have mechs, tanks and troops...

Is this that game?

 Alpharius wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't specific!

Is that picture showing:

1) Scale issues between models?

2) Scale issues between new models from a new edition and older models from past issues?

I have been looking for a mecha game in this scale for a long time, but don't know much about...any of them!

Ideally it would have mechs, tanks and troops...

Is this that game?

It's been 1/144 since the late 90s, so you're probably safe there.

As for whether the game is worth playing, well, this thread is 50 pages of "why not"...

@Alpharius, the game uses a mix of Gears, tanks, APCs, and Infantry as well as mounted cavalry, and just added hoppers (VTOLs). The Beta is open and free to download at DriveThruRPG.

BrandonKF wrote:
@Alpharius, the game uses a mix of Gears, tanks, APCs, and Infantry as well as mounted cavalry, and just added hoppers (VTOLs). The Beta is open and free to download at DriveThruRPG.

Ha - thanks!

All that right there makes it hard to resist...

But if there's something similar, yet better, well - what would it be?

 Alpharius wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't specific!

Is that picture showing:

1) Scale issues between models?

2) Scale issues between new models from a new edition and older models from past issues?

I have been looking for a mecha game in this scale for a long time, but don't know much about...any of them!

Ideally it would have mechs, tanks and troops...

Is this that game?

That picture shows mechs (Gears) from one of each "class," if you'll allow the term. Trooper, commando, support, scout. They are all in-scale with one another, and all from the same faction.

 Alpharius wrote:

But if there's something similar, yet better, well - what would it be?

Dropzone commander.
If you want more than a tick in a check-box, playing nothing is also better. You'll have more money and space for when someone creates a Mech+Vehicle+Troop game that's more to your liking.

If you want the feel of pre-2003 Heavy Gear, Infinity.

mrondeau wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:

But if there's something similar, yet better, well - what would it be?

Dropzone commander.
If you want more than a tick in a check-box, playing nothing is also better. You'll have more money and space for when someone creates a Mech+Vehicle+Troop game that's more to your liking.

If you want the feel of pre-2003 Heavy Gear, Infinity.

This is...depressing to read.

I guess the positive here being that I am already well into Infinity!

That's the whole problem.
I took part in a 50 pages thread of complaining/criticism about DP9. I consider not warning people about DP9's track record equivalent to not warning people about a scam.
At this point, I'll be the first to admit it, I so do not give them the benefit of the doubt that, if they saved all the children and puppies from a burning orphanage, I would probably suspect them of having started the fire.

I still follow them and hope they finally learn, because I want a mini game based on range combat, with mech, vehicle and troop, without stupid and pointless squad cohesion rule.
And I want it to be in the interesting setting they got from 2nd edition.

The first time I tried to stop playing Heavy Gear (after Lock and Loaded), there were no widespread sci-fi game based on range shooting.
I search, tried a few candidate, decided to give Heavy Gear another chance and confirmed all the things that made me stop (effective range: 3". Biggest tactical decision: move to the left or right side of the target. Game balance: nonexistent.)
So I stopped again.

Then, after years of denial by DP9, we got the Gear Up rule patch, finally put together in the Field Manual. I thought they had finally learned!
The rules were muddy, balance was still nonexistent, but tactics and range were back.
Rules questions were not addressed (it's not as if the rules matter.)
Complaining occurred.
Finally, we got an updated version of the PDF, but no errata.
So I spent 2 hours, going pages by pages, to find the changes. Others were asking about the changes on the forum and were not getting any answers.
When I was done creating a change log, Hudson, in a too frequent rare laps of judgment, convinced me to send it to DP9, so that it could be used to create an official change log.
I added a few unanswered questions and did so.
Then, I learned how much DP9 cares about its customers.
If creating the official change log was going to take time, I suggested just posting my log as an unofficial post (what I was planning to do in the first place.)
Instead, I was told to wait. So I waited.
After 1-2 weeks, I asked about the status, and offered help. I was told to wait.
After 1-2 weeks, I asked about the status, and offered help. I was told to wait, it was going to be done soon.
After 1-2 weeks, I asked about the status, and offered help. I was told it was ready and would be posted next Friday.
I offered to look at it, to confirm that my questions were answered. No reply.
Friday come. No change logs. I ask what's going on. No Reply.
During the weekend, someone ask the question. I'm tired of waiting and not answering, so I post my original text.
I warn DP9, saying that it's obviously taking them longer than expected, and that I'm tired of waiting (probably less politely than that, I'll admit.)
Within 30-60 seconds (I checked the timestamps), my post is deleted, and I have an angry PM in my inbox, from the owner who apparently was under the mistaken impression that he was my boss.
It took a few more months for the change log. The final results was, mostly, my original text. The answers did not actually answers the questions, and in fact indicated that the author did not understand the rules.
And the worse thing is that this was not the last drop.

At least, when the last drop dropped, Infinity was widespread. Corvus Beli, no matter what, is not DP9.

It is a real shame that currently, for me the best way to play HG is either using another system or 2nd edition (the one from the 90s).

Alph, this thread is literally filled like a refugee camp with folks that tried to help with HG over the years (from paid employees to playtesters). I fully realize that some folks will see that as just a hive of scum and villainy filled with only those with an axe to grind... and to a point, they're correct... but it's also correct to say that the thread is filled with folks who used to be incredibly enthusiastic about the universe and now aren't because of numerous mistakes by the company that have led us to the point where very few people can find others to actually play and most stores and the EXCLUSIVE official EU distributor don't bother stocking their products.

In any case, BrandonKF is a fellow infinity fan and has conversion rules in his blog to that game (see his thunder run sig link). In a nutshell, if you like the "look" of the gears and don't mind Gundam/Final Fantasy creeping in, download the free beta rules over on drivethrurpg and see if you like them. Just keep in mind that it is likely that any rules you buy/read/whatever will be flipped in 2-3 years like clockwork.

OK, if the KS hits a certain amount (it ain't there yet, by a fair way), I may have to get into it, despite all the issues. But given all of the apparent issues with the rules, my question for the gallery is this.

Assuming the rules for this edition are meh or worse, what previous edition of the rules would people recommend? Specifically for the North/South mecha that'll be included?

Also, do the South not get an equivalent to the Ferret? Everything else North/South tends to have an equivalent.

Morgan Vening wrote:

Also, do the South not get an equivalent to the Ferret? Everything else North/South tends to have an equivalent.

They will, give it time. The Ferret was meant to be a unique, interesting, characterful addition, as was the Gearstrider to Peace River. But recent developments have seen everyone get everything. There's a certain amount of homogenization going on (re: wheel-feet for everyone), and I can't imagine the South will go without a butt-wheel for long.

The southern equivalent of the "mascot Gear" Ferret would probably be the Asp.

Morgan Vening wrote:
OK, if the KS hits a certain amount (it ain't there yet, by a fair way), I may have to get into it, despite all the issues. But given all of the apparent issues with the rules, my question for the gallery is this.

Assuming the rules for this edition are meh or worse, what previous edition of the rules would people recommend? Specifically for the North/South mecha that'll be included?

Also, do the South not get an equivalent to the Ferret? Everything else North/South tends to have an equivalent.

It all depends as they all have issues. The biggest problem with the current "blitz" rules is the stubborn holding over of ideas from the RPG when you had small skirmish forces (<6 models) typically during a decade when the company was trying to sell the game as a platoon sized wargame. Basically, DP9 has been an RPG company whose Rpg failed and were forced to rely on the miniatures "tactical" chapter of their RPG books for many years/editions. Because they want to be an RPG company, they keep alot of the details that work in an RPG (like four DIFFERENT stats for electronics on EVERY model) that are simply bloat in a larger than skirmish minis game. If you want, check out my blog sig link for a simplified version that plays a bit better and faster (IMO) at the skirmish scale (the "FLASH" table of contents on the right).

These issues are supposed to be addressed wtih this new and (for the first time) completely different ruleset. Unfortunately, developer bias has crept in repeatedly over the last year into the alpha/beta rules with little regard for balance until necessary public drama forces a change. The goal of the new rules is to have a sweet spot of up to 20 models per side (so generally 3-5 squads).

As for the ferret, the north generally has more options for recon than the south. I'd say the ferret equivalent for the north is the anolis with the south, in that both are relatively obsolete recon gears in the fluff and not top of the line models.

Only one caveat: their RPG (actually their RPGs) failed because 1) they killed them doing a two-year hiatus to go film movies and 2) the actual brains of the operation left for greener pastures.

EDIT: Also, I'd say that the Ferret Mk II is pretty much a top of the line recon Gear. Wouldn't the equivalent of the Anolis be the Bobcat?

The Ferret Mk II is not really what I would call "top of the line". It's not a Mk I (i.e. obsolete and useless), but it's basically just a jeep. Useful, but no Cheetah.
Sure, it's about as fast, but it's not as manoeuvrable. If speed is your criterion, then Warrior Mk IV are even more top of the line.
They have speed and armour.

The Northern equivalent of an Asp is not a Ferret MkI, it's a firing squad. The Peace-River equivalent is Dubeau-Slovensky.

 Alpharius wrote:
Sorry, I wasn't specific!

Is that picture showing:

1) Scale issues between models?

2) Scale issues between new models from a new edition and older models from past issues?

I have been looking for a mecha game in this scale for a long time, but don't know much about...any of them!

Ideally it would have mechs, tanks and troops...

Is this that game?

I'm hoping Firestorm Planetfall will fill that niche in a more well rounded way.

For me, HG is so mech focused (for obvious reasons) and the mechs are so humanoid that it barely felt like I was playing a different scale. It just felt like a 28mm skirmish game....which Infinity does SO much better ruleswise that it's not even funny.

Scale really isn't a thing anymore, unless you've gone out of your way to hunt down the old minis.

 Albertorius wrote:
Only one caveat: their RPG (actually their RPGs) failed because 1) they killed them doing a two-year hiatus to go film movies

LOL, yeah, I forgot about that one. Can you imagine if Corvus Belli decided to completely stop developing Infinity for a few years just so they could focus exclusively on Spanish Soap Operas for Telemundo? LOL... that decision pretty much killed all of their product lines that weren't already on life support from minimal support and/or edition flip flops.

 warboss wrote:
Alph, this thread is literally filled like a refugee camp with folks that tried to help with HG over the years (from paid employees to playtesters). I fully realize that some folks will see that as just a hive of scum and villainy filled with only those with an axe to grind... and to a point, they're correct... but it's also correct to say that the thread is filled with folks who used to be incredibly enthusiastic about the universe and now aren't because of numerous mistakes by the company that have led us to the point where very few people can find others to actually play and most stores and the EXCLUSIVE official EU distributor don't bother stocking their products.

In any case, BrandonKF is a fellow infinity fan and has conversion rules in his blog to that game (see his thunder run sig link). In a nutshell, if you like the "look" of the gears and don't mind Gundam/Final Fantasy creeping in, download the free beta rules over on drivethrurpg and see if you like them. Just keep in mind that it is likely that any rules you buy/read/whatever will be flipped in 2-3 years like clockwork.

Just reminded me I need to upload the other profiles for the other factions on Thunder Run.

Seems that as long as Infinity is going, they won't be changing the rules up too much (although the little details are probably going to be the devil in disguise here for this 3rd edition ruleset).

-Brandon F.