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 Tamwulf wrote:
I just really, really hope my KS package doesn't come with a bunch of hex slotted bases. Any new player will look at the plastic models and those way too small 25mm hex slotted bases and say "Did they send me the wrong bases? WTF?!"

Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you should expect those awful 25mm hex bases. I specifically asked the Pod about moving to larger round bases during the KS and they disdainfully dismissed the question like I was a crazy person.

If you go to the KS Q&A, I think they made it pretty clear that most models will ship with laughably undersized 25mm bases.

And on that note, the other shoe dropped:



They are kind of weirdly proportioned, but they don't look that bad, you say? Well...



If this is the level of detail is what's to be expected, that is... underwhelming. Angular northern gears look better (at least from the distance), but the southern ones look very underwhelming indeed.

EDIT: Also, if the southern Gear on the bottom left is a Jäger, it is fething tiny, assuming the hex bases are still the same as always have been:

 Albertorius wrote:

That's the new Spitting Cobra?

This is the metal:

from Update #8 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/heavygearblitz/heavy-gear-blitz-war-for-terra-nova-starter-set/posts/1028786)

This is what they said it would look like:

from Update #40 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/heavygearblitz/heavy-gear-blitz-war-for-terra-nova-starter-set/posts/1045392)

One of these things is not like the other...

Remember that these are the test pops. Sucks that you aren't happy with it. I'm pleased with them.

The Caprice minis looked nice enough (then again, we haven`t seen any closeup). That Cobra's details are waay too soft (which might be fixable, maybe) and shallow (which probably can't). Just look at the various handle bars, they are almost not even there. The inversed shoulder details doesn't look particularly good either.

Yeah, one of the things the Pod noted when posting these images in the kickstarter was that many pieces suffered shrinking and holes. Part of the issue seems that they're using a test material rather than the actual plastic to be used in the molds, and part of it seems to be that the molds aren't being heated up in the same way as they would be in production. Needless to say the issues have been identified with the test pops (that's kind of the point, to see what needs polishing), and we have a dated when we'll see the final product.

Personally I would have washed off the release agent, primed and inked the models to make the details pop, but then that's for highlighting a final product rather than tests.

Yeah, the lack of detail on these models is very disheartening. These are just the test models though- and it's a test to see if the molds actually work. I hope that's not the actual plastic they are using- that stuff like more like industrial style PVC used in... well, industrial applications.

I'm not too worried. I'm glad they showed the test models, but I totally realize these will not be the final product. At least DP9 is showing progress! Good on them!

I really hope people share these images as an example of why you shouldn't back a kickstarter based on renders.

Nomeny wrote:
many pieces suffered shrinking

That happens a lot in Canada. The cold winters, y'see.

Henshini wrote:
I really hope people share these images as an example of why you shouldn't back a kickstarter based on renders.

To be fair, it's not that the renders were that good in the first place...

Rdubois wrote:

ByzantineFalcon wrote:I am not sure if it is the photo, but the plastic itself looks a little off to me. Kind of like the plastic they use for Zvezda miniatures. It needs a plastic cement, super glue just pools on it, for whatever reason. Its something in the color, and the sheen, but it might just be me.

Also, does it look like they are all looking down to anyone else? The northern figures, anyway. Rather than looking across the field, they seem to be focusing on a spot on the ground in front of them.

Yes, these are made of styrene, which is a hard plastic that can be glue together with model cement or super glue. This is what we promised during the Kickstarter for the type of plastic we would get them made in. I see what you mean about the heads, I just glued them on fast, before gluing the torsos onto the hips and legs, I should have glued the heads on last, as they all have ball joints and I could have glued them looking across the field. Taking photos of these is not easy as you need a lot of lighting to get the depth of field for all the models to be in focus and when you put a lot of light on the grey plastic it washes out the details.

Well, then this is impossible I guess:



Just taken with my phone's crappy camera, 10cm directly below an halogen lamp.

EDIT: Side by side:

Nomeny wrote:
Remember that these are the test pops. Sucks that you aren't happy with it. I'm pleased with them.

No, it's awesome that I dodged the bullet, and bought metal instead.

I might have paid 2x as much per model for the King Cobra and Spitting Cobra that I just bought, but they're easily 5x better quality. I'm beyond elated with my recent purchase vs waiting for the Pod to send out these gakky low grade plastic knock-offs.
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The Pod's response is amusing. As if tilting the head at a funny angle would change the impression of the mini...

 HudsonD wrote:

Henshini wrote:
I really hope people share these images as an example of why you shouldn't back a kickstarter based on renders.

To be fair, it's not that the renders were that good in the first place...

 Tamwulf wrote:
Yeah, the lack of detail on these models is very disheartening. I hope that's not the actual plastic they are using- that stuff like more like industrial style PVC used in... well, industrial applications.

All that work of going with new lowest-bid artists, pushing things back by nearly a year (7-8 months timeframe), and now in the flesh so to speak the minis may actually look worse than I imagined they would.

Given how Robert responded about the plastic, and how Dave responded to a nearly two months old KS comment (in which a mold seems to cost $24K instead of $15K....), they both seem perfectly fine with how everything turned out.
Likewise, commenters asking about dynamic poses or finer details clearly do not understand that what they are seeing is it for the KS, finis, all done as far as the Pod is concerned; the molds may be ''corrected'' but there is no way they will ever be changed from what was ''approved''.

 Albertorius wrote:

Rdubois wrote:Taking photos of these is not easy as you need a lot of lighting to get the depth of field for all the models to be in focus and when you put a lot of light on the grey plastic it washes out the details.

Well, then this is impossible I guess: [images]
Just taken with my phone's crappy camera, 10cm directly below an halogen lamp.

Well yeah, because: Robert.

Nomeny wrote:
Sucks that you aren't happy with it. I'm pleased with them.

Gives everyone quite a lot to look forwards too, as the Pod fully intends to shift the primary production of as many miniatures as is possible to plastic.

Dave, on 13 July 2015 at 07:48 PM wrote:[..] Two to three years down the road once all the factions have their core plastics is when we get to start looking at advancing the story line again [..]

Quality & detail like this ought to really bring folks running to spend their $$$ on still in development four years later NuBlitz instead of on Infinity, DZC, or Gates.
Not to mention how well all of the ''absolutely badass'' concept art and faction ideas have fit the HG setting starting back around 2011 with NuCoal in the Perfect Storm field guide.

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Now, its been awhile since I would in the plastics industry, and we were doing parts mainly for the auto industry and Xerox, but the way we did test runs and samples was to use the material you actually want the parts in, and to set the tool up the same way you would in production.

That is how you get accurate tests and samples.

Test pops in a 'test material' without the molds 'being heated up' gives you worthless samples, in my opinion. You STILL don't know how it will run because your 'test pops' aren't being run at the parameters that your production will be.

Don't know what their manufacturer is thinking, really, except to soak some more money from the newbs.

RJVF wrote:
Now, its been awhile since I would in the plastics industry, and we were doing parts mainly for the auto industry and Xerox, but the way we did test runs and samples was to use the material you actually want the parts in, and to set the tool up the same way you would in production.

That is how you get accurate tests and samples.

Test pops in a 'test material' without the molds 'being heated up' gives you worthless samples, in my opinion. You STILL don't know how it will run because your 'test pops' aren't being run at the parameters that your production will be.

Don't know what their manufacturer is thinking, really, except to soak some more money from the newbs.

Isn't it sort of like, "We need to know what the top speed of our new car is, so take it up to 30 and hold it there for a while."

RJVF: Re-reading the updates on the Kickstarter I may have misrepresented what they said about test materials/temperatures. I had thought they said something to that effect, but I can't find anything looking back.

On a non-KS note, did Arkrite go radio silent again after the 10 March update?

RJVF wrote:
Now, its been awhile since I would in the plastics industry, and we were doing parts mainly for the auto industry and Xerox, but the way we did test runs and samples was to use the material you actually want the parts in, and to set the tool up the same way you would in production.
That is how you get accurate tests and samples.
Test pops in a 'test material' without the molds 'being heated up' gives you worthless samples, in my opinion. You STILL don't know how it will run because your 'test pops' aren't being run at the parameters that your production will be.
Don't know what their manufacturer is thinking, really, except to soak some more money from the newbs.

Not sure either way to be honest, although this could just as easily be a Pod misunderstanding and typically poorly done passing on of what information was given to them thing (not to mention as professional as always editing).
But yes, there are definitely some huh?, why? moments in the updates.

Update #115 on Mar 18, 2016 wrote:Post Kickstarter Update #49: First Plastic Test Pops of the Caprice Sprues
[..]The company making our plastic injection molds finished up the mold for the Caprice Mounts last Friday and was able to run a few test pops in grey styrene hard plastic and get them expressed to us at the show on Monday.
[..] These are test pops made to see what needs to be tweaked in the molds, some of the parts broke off the sprues because the gates connecting them to the sprue were to small, and a few of the parts had shrinkage, as the molds could not get up to normal running temperature with just few tests pops they ran to send us for the show. They turned out pretty good for test pops and the mold manufacturer will get gate size to the parts increased and do more tests until everything is working perfectly.
[..] lets us know if you like this update by clinking the "Like" button above.

Dream Pod 9 on March 18 wrote:We are using the hard styrene plastic that most high grade model kits are made of, which you can glue together with model cement or super glue. This is what our players asked for and what we promised during the Kickerstarter.

Update #116 on Mar 25, 2016 wrote:Post Kickstarter Update #50: First Plastic Test Pops of the C.E.F. Sprues
[..] The test plastic sprue pops show them where additional spruing, ejector pins, and/or increased gate sizes to the parts are needed.
[..] As you will see there is some shrinkage and dimpling on some of the larger parts, the molds will need to be tweaked so that more molten plastic makes it into those parts cavities.

Update #117 on Mar 30, 2016 wrote:Post Kickstarter Update #51: New Northern and Southern Test Pop Plastic Models
[..] These were all assembled from the test plastic pop sprues we received from the mold manufacturer last week to test where problems are in the molds, they still have some holes and shrinkage on the parts.
[..] The mold manufacturer has informed us that they should have all the molds fixed up by April 10th and then send us final test pops to approve the molds.

Dream Pod 9 on March 28 wrote:These are models made with the test pop sprues, they have holes and shrinkage on them, the final production plastic sprues will look better.

This is still promising a lot by a company that has never done plastic molding who themselves contracted out that manufacture to a pair of companies who both have no presented experience in the molding of plastic miniatures.

Nomeny wrote:
Personally I would have washed off the release agent, primed and inked the models to make the details pop, but then that's for highlighting a final product rather than tests.

 Tamwulf wrote:
Yeah, the lack of detail on these models is very disheartening.

There doesn't seem to be any surface detail in the first place that could even be highlighted.

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Well, it could all be worse. The Cobra could be pot-bellied and have kankles, like it does in Heavy Gear Assault. XD

BTW, looking at the pictures, are we sure that The Pod put the right heads on the right models? Some of the head-body proportions are bizzare peanut head / pumpkin head pairings.

Also - how about those hands! Maybe it's just the angle but it looks like Gears don't get fingers any more..

Considering the scale we're talking about it's probably a good thing. I've had enough problems lately with fingers on my genestealer familiars.

Still! Remember to take a deep breath, look at these Test models from this and go...

'It's still better than Robotech'.

I got to see the models in person this weekend as Robert came and ran demos at a small con here in ottawa. The blockier models do look better in person than the pictures imply but a lot of the gears heads lost all the little sensor bits the metal ones had. The Jager and hunter are tiny now, they look almost fragile. I am curious to see what the actual release versions will look like once the molds get to NA form china.

Did they bring out the new Recon Gears? They must be Goblin-sized.

 Killionaire wrote:
Still! Remember to take a deep breath, look at these Test models from this and go...

'It's still better than Robotech'.

XDD. If that isn't damning with faint praise, I don't know what would be

Being damned by faint praise only works if something is otherwise widely and loudly praised. Given how you and others have been going on I'm inclined to regard such praise indicative of an incredible success. It hasn't been perfect, but as gaming Kickstarters go it's fantastic. I'm really looking forward to getting stuff, and buying the stuff they'll be able to put on shelves as a result of this kickstarter.

Nomeny wrote:
Being damned by faint praise only works if something is otherwise widely and loudly praised.

Er... no.

From Wikipedia:
Damning with faint praise is an English idiom for words that effectively condemn by seeming to offer praise which is too moderate or marginal to be considered praise at all.[1] In other words, this phrase identifies the act of expressing a compliment so feeble that it amounts to no compliment at all, or even implies a kind of condemnation.[2]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damning_with_faint_praise

Urban Dictionary:
To imply condemnation of someone by praising them for utterly unimportant details. From Alexander Pope's Epistle to Doctor Arbuthnot (1733): "Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer, and, without sneering, teach the rest to sneer."
http://es.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=damn+with+faint+praise

Free Dictionary:
Compliment so feebly that it amounts to no compliment at all, or even implies condemnation. For example, The reviewer damned the singer with faint praise, admiring her dress but not mentioning her voice .
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/damn+with+faint+praise

TVTropes:
To damn something with faint praise is to point out that something is mediocre or worse by praising it in ways that make its weaknesses clear. To say that a computer "looks sleek" as the primary point of praise would indicate that it is not that amazing as a computer, for example. To describe a person as punctual when asked about how they perform at work carries the heavy implication that this is their one valuable trait.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DamnedByFaintPraise

In this case, the aforementioned faint praise is "well, at least it exists".

Given how you and others have been going on I'm inclined to regard such praise indicative of an incredible success. It hasn't been perfect, but as gaming Kickstarters go it's fantastic. I'm really looking forward to getting stuff, and buying the stuff they'll be able to put on shelves as a result of this kickstarter.

Well, at least it exists, and that's way better by itself than Robotech's Wave 2.

So far, the Caprice stuff looks nice enough, CEF looks mildly presentable, and North/South look to me deformed and without any kind of detail. If that's due to it being not final "sprue pops", only time will tell. Proportions are probably there to stay, though.

Nomeny wrote:
Given how you and others have been going on I'm inclined to regard such praise indicative of an incredible success.

That has kind of been one of the points of the controversy since the start of this thread, what standards TPTB in Pod-land consider to be successful.

The last post(s) from the Pod on dakka (in the KS thread) was to take focus away from Robert going off about the company being trolled because folks questioned the company's decision to cut two models from the promised rewards with no equivalent compensation beyond a token offering.
There has been no mention of any of the new models or other KS news on G+ for quite a while now, let alone other trafficked sites, which to me is not indicative of something popular enough that folks are talking about it independently of existing players/fans.

Currently vocal people are not universal in their liking of the end product, or the sculpts in the first place, and that is not going to change no matter how much you might wish it otherwise.
It is what it is; talking it up as being something more exposed than the reality has been a large part of the problem in the past.

Nomeny wrote:
and buying the stuff they'll be able to put on shelves as a result of this kickstarter.

That would be just a bit of an assumption considering how few retailers existent right now are willing to stock DP9 products.
Doubly so since the stuff they'll primarily be trying to put on store shelves is the KS ''funded'' retail boxes, which unless something changes will contain less miniatures than was promised.


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 Smilodon_UP wrote:
That would be just a bit of an assumption considering how few retailers existent right now are willing to stock DP9 products.

I'm sure all the retailers around here are just enthusiastic to add plastic HG miniatures next to their pile of metal and resin HG miniatures they bought years ago and cannot sell, even with deep discounts.

"cannot sell, even with deep discounts"

That is not true.

I just bought a bunch of NEW CEF Frames for half off + S&H. And a NEW King Cobra for <$10 shipped. There's clearly a market for metal Gears run priced around $5-7 before S&H.

If the price is low enough, I'm willing to at least consider some of the other models. For example, I'd pay another $10 shipped for a Spitting Cobra with the Support Cobra bitz included. Tactical-era Recon Cadre? Yeah, I'd probably buy that at half original MSRP.


But yeah, neither of my local hobby stores carry new product from the Pod. Last I checked, I think there's one Exo-Armor from ages ago in one of the clearance bins. I wonder why that is...