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I won't tailor my list for anyone. I don't expect to be allowed to drop or change a weapon for another that's better at killing your army and I don't expect my Opponent to ask that I make my army weaker so they can beat it easier. If i play against a non regular opponent I will say to them before hand that my list is a 'preparing for a tournament list' a 'winning tournament list' a 'funky giggles list' or a 'balanced game list' , if they choose not to play then that's cool with me, if they do want to play then don't moan and mardy about it. I can guarantee you that I will cheer you on if you beat me! I'll make you laugh, I'll praise your soft unit that destroyed my hard unit, I don't argue and I try to make it a funny, movie type game!
At a tournament a while back I tabled my first opponent in 23 minutes. He was gutted. The first thing I did was buy him breakfast, chatted with him and got him eager and fighting for the next game. I went on to win the best space marine player and one of the reasons for that was I got a favourite army vote from that very guy.
Attitude is everything in this hobby, bring a power list by all means, bring a power list with a smile, jokes and decency and you got a new gaming buddy. Bring that same list with a smirk, arguments and arrogance and say goodbye to a future opponent.
Bring a weak list and jokes, smiles and no negative attitude, brilliant gaming buddy.
Bring a weak list and sulk, whine and bemoan how hard life is, I'll take pleasure in beating you FOOL!

Naw wrote:
Then shall we look at the lists? They were all over the place with no idea.

We can wish that equal amount of points would mean the armies were equal, but that has never been the case. It is even less so with 6th edition.

What should the SM player have done? Cripple his list? I understand that this game is all about having fun. I have been on a receiving end of a one sided battle often enough. This game is not balanced, everyone knows it. You are bound to face armies you simply cannot beat.

You're still failing to grasp the concept of a 'hard counter'. Tyranids do not have a viable method of beating a Space Marine Gunline. Their durable units are not durable enough, they don't have the speed to close the gap for their much shorter ranged weapons to become useful, anything that can deep strike is extremely vulnerable for the turn it arrives, and their swarms don't have the numbers to be durable, unlike, for example, Imperial Guard.

Any Tyranid list was going to have severe problems against that Space Marine list. Like you said yourself in your second paragraph, we can wish that an equal amount of points means the armies are equal, but that has never been the case. In this case, the Space Marine player unwittingly deployed a hard counter to Tyranid armies as a whole.

I'm not saying that the Space Marine player should have changed his list. After all, he made the army, and gets to play games with it. However, you can't expect everyone to enjoy playing against the list. The Tyranid player did not have fun playing against it, and the reason is very simple - whether he intended to or not, the Space Marine player made an army that is extremely difficult for Tyranids as an army, not just this particular list, to fight. It was never going to be an enjoyable game for the Tyranid player.

That's all I was saying - the OP asked why his opponents didn't enjoy the game. That's the reason, at least in the case of the Tyranid player.

Just to clarify a few things here, we all tailor our lists to each other before the game as it's a very small group of us that play, my changes for the guard were minor compared to his

Thanks for the advice though guys. I did have another game with the tyranid player last night and it was extremely enjoyable for both parties with a narrow space marine victory. We gave less terrain a go and it seemed to work out better for the 'nids

Powergaming or not aside, as a question of pure fun, your list does not look fun to play against.

Not saying it's a bad list or that we might not enjoy the game.

It's just not quirky, there are only a few different things your whole army can do, overall, it's just unlikely that you're going to get yourself into those more interesting scenarios.

Most good-great players would never call space marines bs or unfair. I think the most accurate term applied to Marines is predictable. Predictable damage output, mobility, survivability.

^dude he's got two units of bikes. Seriously, what's your problem? Lol

Jamo wrote:
^dude he's got two units of bikes. Seriously, what's your problem? Lol

I thought I included a variety of units myself considering the range of troops/fast attack/heavy support

The Snipers and the Whirlwind for sure, but otherwise it's a lot of S7-9 move shoot move shoot.

I think you're lacking some engagement (Tau's main problem with being boring). Drop Pods, Dreads, Sternguard, Vanguard, Assault Marines, Legion of the Damned, Land Raiders are all engaging.

Walking into your list it just feels like there's not much that's going to surprise me.

 ductvader wrote:
The Snipers and the Whirlwind for sure, but otherwise it's a lot of S7-9 move shoot move shoot.

I think you're lacking some engagement (Tau's main problem with being boring). Drop Pods, Dreads, Sternguard, Vanguard, Assault Marines, Legion of the Damned, Land Raiders are all engaging.

Walking into your list it just feels like there's not much that's going to surprise me.

Anything that pods in/gets in close quickly gets engulfed by the swarm though :(

And?

A dread in a swarm is not going to get harmed usually (being front AV 12/13 depending on the dread)..

 happygolucky wrote:
And?

A dread in a swarm is not going to get harmed usually (being front AV 12/13 depending on the dread)..

Yeah but then the tervigons come in and rip them a new one

At I:1? you can whittle him down some wounds though..

Never, ever to expect a 1-hit K.O (as what usual users on dakka assume they want everything to do) the reality is that rarely happens

Also a good unit for taking out some wounds on tervigons is usually a stern guard squad in a pod with combi-meltas, or to account for scattering combi-grav

WTF guys? Are you seriously saying that someone should cripple a non-optimized list? Seriously??

If I put out 6x 20 bloodletters, I would not complain that your list was a hard counter to mine. If you bring a fun list, _any_ list can be a hard counter.

To the OP, I do not think you were at fault. Who knows, the dice might have been below average. I have had a streak of bad rolls, but I did not blame my opponent.

It's really hard for marines to be cheesy, because most of their powerful models are expensive and quite mortal. At least in comparison to the competition.

Take those 6 typhoon speeders against an opponent who shoots back and see how cheesy they are.

I normally hate missile launchers, but the Tyranids are a codex that is weak against them due to all the 3+ armor and lack of AV units. The typhoon is one case where I think MLs are decent.

BTW, 3 baledrakes will rofl stomp this list. Try to make a more TAC list and then fight the Nids.

First turn 12 ML shots from the speeders . 2 from the tacs . . that is 2 dead MC right there , in or outside of cover. But if somehow they surivve they get hit by 6 grav guns , 6 las shots from preds and 5 snipers. That is 3 dead MC . if one of the dead ones is the tervigon then the guants get fried in addition to the whilrwind .

Let say the nid player kills 3 of the units that kill his MC on his turn . Somehow . Next turn the last two of his die and the sm can walk through and unsynapsed swarm of low ap shoting and stealers attacking in cover.

Makumba wrote:
First turn 12 ML shots from the speeders . 2 from the tacs . . that is 2 dead MC right there , in or outside of cover. But if somehow they surivve they get hit by 6 grav guns , 6 las shots from preds and 5 snipers. That is 3 dead MC . if one of the dead ones is the tervigon then the guants get fried in addition to the whilrwind .

Let say the nid player kills 3 of the units that kill his MC on his turn . Somehow . Next turn the last two of his die and the sm can walk through and unsynapsed swarm of low ap shoting and stealers attacking in cover.

Of course none of that is accounting for the chance to hit/wound/cover Not including the grav guns that's about one dead MC turn one by my count

Sonyca wrote:

Makumba wrote:
First turn 12 ML shots from the speeders . 2 from the tacs . . that is 2 dead MC right there , in or outside of cover. But if somehow they surivve they get hit by 6 grav guns , 6 las shots from preds and 5 snipers. That is 3 dead MC . if one of the dead ones is the tervigon then the guants get fried in addition to the whilrwind .

Let say the nid player kills 3 of the units that kill his MC on his turn . Somehow . Next turn the last two of his die and the sm can walk through and unsynapsed swarm of low ap shoting and stealers attacking in cover.

Of course none of that is accounting for the chance to hit/wound/cover Not including the grav guns that's about one dead MC turn one by my count

...and FnP

Makumba wrote:
First turn 12 ML shots from the speeders . 2 from the tacs . . that is 2 dead MC right there , in or outside of cover. But if somehow they surivve they get hit by 6 grav guns , 6 las shots from preds and 5 snipers. That is 3 dead MC . if one of the dead ones is the tervigon then the guants get fried in addition to the whilrwind .

Let say the nid player kills 3 of the units that kill his MC on his turn . Somehow . Next turn the last two of his die and the sm can walk through and unsynapsed swarm of low ap shoting and stealers attacking in cover.

What they said... it's not that easy. And Codex: SPEHSS MAHREENS can't get divination easily for prescience love.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't want to get close enough to Nids to grav gun them. Of course, my personal chapter of BA are the Coward Angels.

C:SM has a few problems but psychic powers is not one of them. If you want Divination take a 55 point Inquisitor or two or play Mantis Warriors or ally DA.

Oh yeah, I forgot about them. Okay, you can get stuff twin linked easy enough. But you still have to wound and get through FNP. Wounding can be nontrivial with iron arm flying around.