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 marv335 wrote:

karlosovic wrote:
GW has this public health and safety / liability issue because of lead being toxic, so they had to change the metal models to resin (which, btw, is also sometimes toxic).

You do know that GW stopped using lead well over a decade ago?

I was actually wearing a 'red shirt' when 'White Metal' was launched so yes I know about that, but I'd heard reports over the years that claimed White Metal still had a certain amount of lead in it. I can't find any actual evidence now to support this though, so looks like maybe it was false reporting.

Everyone is happy with the detail level in plastic. It's the lightest, easiest to work with, forms the strongest bonds to itself, comes in the most customisable setup and is generally regarded as the modellers first preference.
The only reason not to use it on everything is that apparently it's expensive to create the moulds. So they use something like metal or resin for low production models.... I.E GW reducing costs

So we're still left with a B.S reason for the change to Finecast (better detail), and in a way the other explanation is worse.
GW switches to a cheaper, less durable material, and not only do they NOT pass on the savings... they actually increase the price!




Automatically Appended Next Post:
oh and when I said resin "is also sometimes toxic", I was of course referring to the dust created by sanding down mould lines etc

There is another reason plastic hasn't taken over everything: undercuts. Or more specifically how plastic molds can't have any. They're finding ways around this now thanks to computer programs and some experimentation but it kept GW from making the switch in the past to all plastic before.

Time moves on and with it processes change though so it's inevitable that we'll see their products go full plastic eventually.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also a possible explination for the increased cost of Fine cast (which occurred right before a yearly price hike and they were except from it at the time, meaning the initial price hike was them doing the yearly one early) is that the material, while cheaper is harder to consistently work with and the increased cost (instead of freezing the price for instance) reflects the QA issues of working with the material. We don't even know how many models, especially in the earlier days if Fine cast, never made it out of the production area because of casting issues. That cost, as well as all those free kits they send out, even if only a single model from a full kit is miscast, is very likely all bundled into the price you're paying. You're paying not only for the one you have, but it's very possible replacement and the shipping that goes with that.

At least that's my guess.

I prefer just good ol' plastic. That said, Finecast has it's advantages. I used to utterly loathe it but I've come around to seeing some of the upsides.

1) It's significantly better than plastic when it comes to making your own conversions by hacking up the arms and legs to repose them with a little bit of greenstuff. Thinner material, easier to cut through, means your knifework comes out smoother and straighter.

2) It's great to paint on. I like painting it better than plastic. Maybe it's just me but I find paint applies on it very smooth and oils from my own fingers don't seem to affect it as much as it can on plastic.

3) It's significantly lighter, so larger models in finecast are simply better than they'd be as a heavier material. I have the old metal Sammael and I wish to god I had the Finecast one instead because that dude is heavy and tends to fall over, which leads to his sword breaking all the time. I'd take a droopy sword on a model that is way easier to transport and attach to a base than one that weighs literally a pound and a half. I imagine the larger Tau commander suits are much the same way.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 sing your life wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Every single finecast or FW "we swear it's not finecast even though it's exactly like finecast" model I've had the misfortune of encountering has ended up in the trash.

sigh.. time to break out the meme:

Do a search. There are multiple threads on Finecrap, all with accompanying horror pictures. Don't expect us to do all the legwork to fuel your skepticism.

I was asking for peregrine's pictures of her models, not just random failcasts that are much less common than good casts.

I recommend to you that after writing your post, you have a good look over it to make sure it satisfies anyone other than yourself. Inject some QC into your work.

I didn't really understand the problem with Finecast until I got my hands on the Dark Apostle model.

I had enough of those bits randomly snap on me just while cutting it off the sprue to make me curse the name of Finecast.

Haven't tried painting it yet, so that may change my mind. Will get around to trying Green Stuff with it once I stop being mad at it for existing.

I barely believe all the stories about how somebody's metal model has a weapon/arm that "constantly falls off all the time because of the weight to glue ratio".

I can't even remember the last time I had a model with that issue, especially with pinning, which I only do about 50% of the time. The worst I have had is weapons break off after trips to the floor, and that is rare. Certainly never had anything break off more than once, through handling and gaming, and I've been with 40K for nearly 20 years.

But Finecast? I would be afraid of breaking them just taking them off the sprue. Unless of course they are broken already just from being in the package. Never bought Finecast, never will. It actually significantly hindered what I used to spend with GW.

Short answer: No.

Long answer: Hell no.

Explanation: The seem far too fragile to me. Not enough substance and too bendy, I guess.

 sing your life wrote:
I was asking for peregrine's pictures of her models, not just random failcasts that are much less common than good casts.

Why would I take pictures of garbage? The models are gone, and I didn't bother keeping pictures of them just in case some white knight demanded proof that yes, finecast has problems. If you want to believe that I'm making it up out of sheer irrational hatred for GW, that's fine.

karlosovic wrote:
oh and when I said resin "is also sometimes toxic", I was of course referring to the dust created by sanding down mould lines etc

This is not true. Resin is not toxic at all. The problem with resin dust is that it's fine particles, which aren't good for you no matter what they're made of. You'll have the same problems with sawdust, plastic dust, etc. It's only a slightly bigger concern with resin models because they often require more sanding work, while most people just clip plastic kits off the sprue, assemble them as quickly as possible, and start painting/playing.

No.

I had a Dwarf Gyrocopter "magically come to life and fly across the room." When the stupid thing wouldn't line up properly. also the steam gun was missing from the blister. Second time I had missing pieces, my Grudge Thrower also was missing an entire sprue.

 CommanderRyalis wrote:
Grudge Thrower also was missing an entire sprue.

Hah! One of my friends bought a finecast grudge thrower and we laughed for ages about how horribly twisted it was. Then it took him a long time of dipping in hot then cold water to bend and set it until it was at least reasonable.

I've only bought 2 things in finecast having seen the trash my friends had early on. I only bought them because it had been a long time since finecast launched, and I assumed the issues would be resolved by now. I was wrong.

Finecast Ethereal - not too bad, a bit warped so needed the warm water treatment. A lot of flash to clean.

Finecast Crisis Commander - Awful. Warped pieces, lots of tiny bubbles, poorly fitting pieces that needed a lot of shaping (on the one hand at least it was easy to cut, but that doesn't excuse poor product imho) and lots of flash. So much flash that some of it was hard to tell whether it was supposed to be a mechanical part or not. I had to clean everything up, build the model, then clean it up again once it was a bit more obvious what should be there and what shouldn't. And then, due to the pose, it lacked the weight to stand properly, so I had to glue a washer into the base to weigh it down. Oh and then after I hadn't used the model in a couple of months, I took it out for another game and it had bent over far enough that it would no longer stand even with the weighted base! It was laying down in a battlefoam tray inside a cabinet, how it managed to be put under such stress it bent is completely beyond me. So it will need repair again, if I bother.

I'd never buy finecast anything again.

The issues with finecast outweigh the benefits its not just the little bubbles or bent swords i've had some terrible experiences.

My frustration is caused by the fact its just so hit and miss, you can have really good clean cast on one model and furry mess on another
sometimes from the same pack.

I paint models for a living and honestly I dread finecast projects because the time taken to fix or reorder models is time I could be earning money.

I'd say on a good to bad ratio it's currently about 1:7.

Plastics are awesome though.

Didnt read the whole thread, but the only real issue i have with finecast is that if the model gets slightly too warm it will start to warp ever so slowly. I have the crisis commander and i left him in a spot that i didnt realize got as much sun as it did. Came home and he was damn near lying down. So i cut his feet off and stuck him on a clear plastic pole so that hes flying now. Also, his arm started out pointing straight out, now hes pointing mostly towards the ground.

Oh! and it doesnt work with the glue that melts the plastics together which means i had to go buy more gak just to put em together.....just a minor pain....

 Peregrine wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
I was asking for peregrine's pictures of her models, not just random failcasts that are much less common than good casts.

Why would I take pictures of garbage? The models are gone, and I didn't bother keeping pictures of them just in case some white knight demanded proof that yes, finecast has problems. If you want to believe that I'm making it up out of sheer irrational hatred for GW, that's fine.

I THINK(I may be wrong)That he wants proof of Forgeworld using finecast,not proof that finecast is bad.

I love the way GW promises "better detail".Why?How is a 5 year old legolas sculpt supposed to have extra detail when it used to be metal?What does failcost suddenly make detail appear that wasn't sculpted in the first place?However failcast has slightly redemed itself in that at least its cheaper then plastic characters.SLIGHTLY.

Fine cast in general is pretty fail, but like Martin said you can get good models.

In the same commission I had Skarsnick and a Mangler Squig. Skarsnick was ace, nice clean cast and very little cleaning up, the Mangler Squig, not to bad a cast, few bits of cleaning up, was great until I glued it all together and the one leg supporting the whole model bent in the summer weather, had to put pins through the leg so it wouldn't bend and fail again.

I'm looking forward to gw binning finecast all together, the plastics are ace, bit on the pricy side though.

Finecast is like that weird out of date foreign candy that some people give out on Halloween, it's either bad or horrifying.

huh..I was told by a redshirt here in aus it's improved. and in the latest 19 finecast buys not even flash was on the model.

Yeah, I've had 0 problems with finecast.

Not that I'm saying there is nothing wrong with it, I've seen other people get terrible disfigured finecast miniatures, I just haven't had any problems myself.

Finecast has definitely improved since it first came out, though.

Do I prefer plastic? Hell yes! But I'm ok with finecast.

finecast looks great on certain models. nurgle dp plague marines etc

well... 65% of the time, finecast works all of the time.

Its super hit and miss. Every now and again you get a great cast but most of the time it requires much more work than the metal equivilant and there is very little increase in quality ver metal. Overall though I just dont think all the extra effort that is required is worth it. Its a premium price for a sub par product and frankly I will be glad to see it go. On the plus side it has taught alot of hobbiests how to sculpt entire faces/hands/skulls :s

EyeOfDC wrote:
huh..I was told by a redshirt here in aus it's improved. and in the latest 19 finecast buys not even flash was on the model.

My redshirt likes to tell me only 1 in 10 is bad, ignoring the fact that even that is truly terrible quality control if 10% of your products make it to the shelves in that condition, you don't believe what redshirts tell you.
They don't actually know anything and just tell you everything is the best ever, that 'it's gotten better' line is not his opinion, it's what he is being told to say by management.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
There is another reason plastic hasn't taken over everything: undercuts. Or more specifically how plastic molds can't have any. They're finding ways around this now thanks to computer programs and some experimentation but it kept GW from making the switch in the past to all plastic before.

Plastic molds have had the ability to do undercuts for a few years now with sliding sections built into the mold. Slide them in to cast the undercut, slide them out to pop the sprue out. What keeps GW going all plastic is simply their production capacity and the up front cost and time of making a plastic mold.

Ah Finecast. Miniatures made from reinforced whipped cream and sold at a premium.

Relapse wrote:
Ah Finecast. Miniatures made from reinforced whipped cream and sold at a premium.

lol, I'ld be a happy man when it all gets shifted to plastic

As a commission painter I always feel a pang of dread when I recieve some Finecast models to work on. I don't think I've ever had a Finecast model that didn't have some sort of horrible defect. The first one I bought for myself was a Necron Overlord. Had to go through 5 of them before I got one that could be considered a complete model. Give me a good old metal model anyday.

I actually like Finecast. Easy to assemble, easy to paint, and not a nightmare when it is dropped. Maybe it's just me, but I have never purchased one of these swiss cheese nightmares everyone claims to have returned 5 times. I think a lot of it is Internet RAAAAGE blown way out of proportion.

and besides, didn't someone say Finecast was going to be discontinued by the end of this year?

I am sort of 50-50 with it. It's very hit and miss. But the sooner they go all plastic, the better.

Da krimson barun wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
I was asking for peregrine's pictures of her models, not just random failcasts that are much less common than good casts.

Why would I take pictures of garbage? The models are gone, and I didn't bother keeping pictures of them just in case some white knight demanded proof that yes, finecast has problems. If you want to believe that I'm making it up out of sheer irrational hatred for GW, that's fine.

I THINK(I may be wrong)That he wants proof of Forgeworld using finecast,not proof that finecast is bad.

I love the way GW promises "better detail".Why?How is a 5 year old legolas sculpt supposed to have extra detail when it used to be metal?What does failcost suddenly make detail appear that wasn't sculpted in the first place?However failcast has slightly redemed itself in that at least its cheaper then plastic characters.SLIGHTLY.

that was exactly what I was thinking.

And finecast does have "better" [not more] detail, look at finecast models from the reviews and you'll see some of the lines are less rounded than metal.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:


and besides, didn't someone say Finecast was going to be discontinued by the end of this year?

Finecast gundabad orcs in February or later seems like evidence that they were wrong to me.

 sing your life wrote:


that was exactly what I was thinking.

Well then put that in the post! I know you're going to snipe at me for this but I don't give a gak. As others have pointed out, your posts seem haphazardly slapped together being composed of nothing but half-finished thoughts and snark about people's avatars (!?!?). We are not in your head. We cannot see what someone intended in their writing; we can guess, and with that comes the joys of interpretation. Simply putting that you were referring to FW resin in your original reply would save a lot of grief with people trying to interpret what these single-sentence posts actually mean.


OT: Now for my general opinion on it- Finecast is seriously the worst thing to happen to the wargames industry. Whilst it seems like a good idea in principle; GW really screwed the pooch with this one. It has tarnished GW's name WRT quality like nothing else ever could. Even if they have improved the quality FC's reputation, coupled with GW's general dickery makes people unable to trust whatever GW says about its quality.

 Grimtuff wrote:

 sing your life wrote:


that was exactly what I was thinking.

OT: Now for my general opinion on it- Finecast is seriously the worst thing to happen to the wargames industry. Whilst it seems like a good idea in principle; GW really screwed the pooch with this one. It has tarnished GW's name WRT quality like nothing else ever could. Even if they have improved the quality FC's reputation, coupled with GW's general dickery makes people unable to trust whatever GW says about its quality.

You copied that from somewhere else on the internet, didn't you?

Besides my OP wasn't originally asking to see FW finecast, I just saw Barun's post and thought the idea of FW models being secret FC seemed dodgy.