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I've talked this stuff over with friends in person and we've agreed on all these things in our little gaming group, so I thought I would share it with you all and see what you think.

I play Dark Angels. I noticed a lot of things that Codex: Space Marines changed and yet there hasn't been an errata to bring Dark Angels back in line with typical Space Marines. None of this is theoretical power tweaks: it's all things both units have equivalent units/ideas for and yet Dark Angels have to pay more for. This are all ENTIRELY to bring like units alike between the two codices.

CHANGE 1: Dark Angel Command Squad/Ravenwing Command Squad/Deathwing Command Squad

Change "may replace <weapon> with Narthicium" to "may take a Narthicium" for any Apothecary.

Reasoning: It's stupid our apothecaries have to give up a bolt pistol (or in the case of the terminator CS, an entire power fist) for something that's not a weapon, while Codex Marines do not have to give up their bolt pistols. (Hell, both the Forgeworld Legion Apothecaries models are phyiscally holding their bolt pistols in their Narthicium-equipped hand so clearly they can still shoot with it)

An argument can be made for dropping the power fist off the Deathwing Apothecary because the narthicium hand is clearly not a power fist. My suggested argument to my friend who brought this up is "How about he is then equipped with a power sword? It's fluffy as pretty much any character model in the whole codex gets one, and while it's still a significant downgrade from a powerfist, you're still equipped with a weapon that is inherent with the massive points cost of terminators." We felt it was a good compromise. For the purposes of declaring this on the model, we just said "that's what that one dagger thingy hanging from his belt is, or something."

CHANGE 2: Land Raider Redeemer
Lower points cost to 240. (Redeemer is the one with the flamestorm cannons, right? I get it and Crusader confused all the time. Either way, the one with the flame cannons is 240 points in Codex: Space Marines and 245 in Codex Dark Angels. Nothing about the default wargear is any different.)

CHANGE 3: Blade of Caliban
Remove unwieldy. (Alternatively make it AP2, so it'd be the same profile as a power axe.)

Reasoning: Hey Dark Angels, I heard you like inferior weapons options, so we forced your company champions into an inferior power axe but you have to spend the same points. In all seriousness, GW seems to forget the point of making things divergent is to make the things that chapter does BETTER but limit their overall options for what they can do on the table, not to make something factually worse in every way.) The Blade of Caliban is inferior to a power axe. Hell, its inferior to the Corvus Hammers the rest of the Ravenwing Command Squad will be wielding.

CHANGE 4: Dark Angel Command Squad Storm Shields
Make them 10 points per model rather than 15.

Reasoning: This should have been changed before Codex Marines even dropped. Dark Angels Veteran Squads and Dark Angels command squad units are literally the same guys. Same profiles, same weaponry upgrades, just no profile upgrades or banners for the ones taken as elites instead of as an HQ choice. Why the HQ versions have to spend 5 more points a storm shield is beyond me. Codex Marine Command Squads get Storm Shields at 10 points, Dark Angels own Company Veteran squads can take them at 10 points a model. It should be 10 points a model.

CHANGE 5: Librarian
Upgrading to psyker mastery level 2 is 25 points instead of current 35 points.

Reasoning: Dark Angels are literally the only codex in the entire game that doesn't spend 25 points on a mastery level for units that can buff it. Chaos Space Marines costs 25 per on sorcerers and daemon princes. Codex marine librarians only spend 25 points a mastery level. Chaos demons only spend 25 points a mastery level. Therefore, Dark Angels should only spend 25 a mastery level.

CHANGE 6: Company Master
Upgrade to terminator armor, storm bolter and power sword costs 30 points instead of 40 points.

Reasoning: That'd put him at 120 points, which would make him both cost and wargear-equivalent of a codex space marine Terminator Captain entry instead of 10 points more. It'd also make it so there was a point to this upgrade, because as of right now it's LESS POINTS to upgrade to artificer armor and take a power sword, and that way you still get to keep your grenades and can still sweeping advance.

Alternatively, make it still cost 40 points for the upgrade, but it also confers the special rules "Deathwing Assault" and "Vengeful Strike."

CHANGE 7: Techmarines
Add "Boltgun" to wargear

Reasoning: They don't have one and I cannot fathom why they don't. All the models for techmarines have them standard. Codex marines get them on their techmarines standard. Equivalent units should at least have the same defaults if not the same upgrades.

CHANGE 8: Scouts
Change base cost to 11 points a model. Make swapping boltgun for a sniper rifle take +1 point/model.

Reasoning: Just puts them in line with the same unit entry from codex marines from a cost perspective.

CHANGE 1: Then again C:SM have no Terminator apothecaries so its not really a comparison.
CHANGE 2: probably a tax for being able to become venerable.
CHANGE 3: the original weapon is silly isnt it.
CHANGE 4:
CHANGE 5: Divination is way to good not to tax
CHANGE 6:
CHANGE 7:
CHANGE 8:

 Desubot wrote:
CHANGE 1: Then again C:SM have no Terminator apothecaries so its not really a comparison.
CHANGE 2: probably a tax for being able to become venerable.
CHANGE 3: the original weapon is silly isnt it.
CHANGE 4:
CHANGE 5: Divination is way to good not to tax
CHANGE 6:
CHANGE 7:
CHANGE 8:

Change 1: Fair point, but that's still not the point. A narthicium does not preclude being able to use a weapon, so completely giving up a 25 point cost weapon for no reason is dumb.

Change 2: No, because every other Land Raider points cost is the same. Besides, you don't "tax" something because it has the OPTION to take something, you simply make that option worth the points costs of the upgrade.

Change 5: No, because as I already stated Chaos Daemons only spend 25 points per mastery level upgrade and many of them have access to divination. Access to different pools does not justify cost for the same upgrade. That would be like saying bike units have to spend more points on melta guns because they are more capable of getting into melta range than foot soldiers.

1: Im come back to this
2: its just speculation
5: im comparing the lv2 upgrade to a C:SM librarian. it has nothing to do with Chaos daemons who has nothing to do with anything space marine.

Pretty sure point 2 is because they decided to lower the cost of it post-Dark Angels release, just like they lowered Helbrutes down to 100 instead of the 105 it's printed as once Dark Angels came out with their Dreadnaughts at 100. I am HOPING it gets errata'd because there really is no reason it should still be 5 points more expensive. Personally it's my favorite land raider variant, too, so I would love to see it brought in line.

With point 5, my point was EVERY CODEX IN 6TH EDITION WITH ACCESS TO UPGRADABLE PSYKERS does so at 25 per mastery level, with the exceptions to dark angels. If they really feel divination is worth 10 points more, why is it on the upgrade to psyker mastery level and not the base cost of the unit? It's just poorly thought out, which is par for the course with the first 2 books in every edition.

I think all of these changes look decent and it's not like these small changes would suddenly make the Dark Angels a highly overpowered army, merely fix some discrepancies.

SRSFACE wrote:
Alternatively, make it still cost 40 points for the upgrade, but it also confers the special rules "Deathwing Assault" and "Vengeful Strike."

Page 65 of the DA Codex, little box under "Terminator Armour".

I agree with pretty much everything else (not sure about the Termi Apoth).

 Quanar wrote:

SRSFACE wrote:
Alternatively, make it still cost 40 points for the upgrade, but it also confers the special rules "Deathwing Assault" and "Vengeful Strike."

Page 65 of the DA Codex, little box under "Terminator Armour".

I agree with pretty much everything else (not sure about the Termi Apoth).

How did I miss that? I've only been playing them for the last year. :|

I really need to kitbash the deathwing Librarian I'd been meaning to build for awhile now. Twin-linked mindbullets!

I am still also unsure about what to do with the Deathwing Apoth, but the issue remains he literally doesn't have a melee weapon equipped. You simply make your attacks with him with his profile and that is kind of dumb considering it's literally the only Terminator model in all of 40k without a power weapon or better. He technically doesn't even have a CCW after upgrading him.