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If a transport vehicle that goes combat speed in movement phase the passangers can fire as normal so long as the vehicle has fire points. But can the vehicle travel at combat speed, the passangers fire and still do a flat out? I.e vehicle at combat speed->passangers fire normally->vehicle does a flat out move.
Whaddaya think?

This is legal. Passengers are not allowed to shoot if the vehicle moves flat out, but there is no similar restriction on moving flat out after the passengers have shot.

 Peregrine wrote:
This is legal. Passengers are not allowed to shoot if the vehicle moves flat out, but there is no similar restriction on moving flat out after the passengers have shot.

No, it isn't. The rule says they can't fire "if the vehicle moves flat out...that turn." Doesn't matter if it's before or after.

Angelic wrote:
No, it isn't. The rule says they can't fire "if the vehicle moves flat out...that turn." Doesn't matter if it's before or after.

Of course it matters. When you shoot with the unit the vehicle has not decided whether to move flat out or not, so you can't restrict the unit's shooting based on something that may happen in the future. And once you've shot with the unit you obviously can't go back and un-shoot with it when the vehicle moves flat out.

 Peregrine wrote:

Angelic wrote:
No, it isn't. The rule says they can't fire "if the vehicle moves flat out...that turn." Doesn't matter if it's before or after.

Of course it matters. When you shoot with the unit the vehicle has not decided whether to move flat out or not, so you can't restrict the unit's shooting based on something that may happen in the future. And once you've shot with the unit you obviously can't go back and un-shoot with it when the vehicle moves flat out.

Lol, are you serious?

Thanks Peregrine!

 Luusormi wrote:
Thanks Peregrine!

Sigh....

Angelic wrote:
Sigh....

Yeah, isn't it just disappointing when someone asks a rules question and gets an answer based on what the rules actually say instead of what is "fair" or "reasonable"?

3 Plasma guns out the hatch of a Chimera is one hell of a drive by. Them Space Marine fools aint gonna mess with no guardsmen no moe'.

 Peregrine wrote:

Angelic wrote:
No, it isn't. The rule says they can't fire "if the vehicle moves flat out...that turn." Doesn't matter if it's before or after.

Of course it matters. When you shoot with the unit the vehicle has not decided whether to move flat out or not, so you can't restrict the unit's shooting based on something that may happen in the future. And once you've shot with the unit you obviously can't go back and un-shoot with it when the vehicle moves flat out.

Correct - you can't restrict the units shooting if the vehicle hasn't moved flat out.
If they fire, however, the vehicle cannot move flat out. That would make one of your actions this turn illegal.

 Peregrine wrote:

Angelic wrote:
No, it isn't. The rule says they can't fire "if the vehicle moves flat out...that turn." Doesn't matter if it's before or after.

Of course it matters. When you shoot with the unit the vehicle has not decided whether to move flat out or not, so you can't restrict the unit's shooting based on something that may happen in the future. And once you've shot with the unit you obviously can't go back and un-shoot with it when the vehicle moves flat out.

No it doesn't matter. It says that turn so they can't flat out and shoot that turn. changing the order doesn't prevent an illegal action

 Peregrine wrote:

Angelic wrote:
Sigh....

Yeah, isn't it just disappointing when someone asks a rules question and gets an answer based on what the rules actually say instead of what is "fair" or "reasonable"?

How about actually reading the rules, or maybe the FAQ:

Q: If a Transport vehicle has a unit embarked upon it, and that unit makes a shooting attack, can the vehicle then move Flat Out in the same Shooting phase? (p78)
A: No.

Angelic wrote:
Q: If a Transport vehicle has a unit embarked upon it, and that unit makes a shooting attack, can the vehicle then move Flat Out in the same Shooting phase? (p78)
A: No.

See, that was much more productive. Instead of just posting zero-content "sigh" spam you pointed out that GW published an "FAQ" that blatantly changes the rule instead of answering a question.

I think it's a question of who is going to fire first, the Transport or the Troops?

I HATE it when people do their flat out as part of their movement, that's not how it works!

I'm pretty sure the shoo/ flat out restriction applies only to the transport itself. If you fire with it, you can't decide to move flat out.

The real question is does moving the transport flat-out mean that the passengers are also making a "run" move, or are they unaffected?

Actually I'd like to see the FAQ in a link to a reputable source. This could just be something he made up to save his own skin.

Krucho1986 wrote:
Actually I'd like to see the FAQ in a link to a reputable source. This could just be something he made up to save his own skin.

you could check the BRB FAQ, its not like its hidden


Automatically Appended Next Post:

darkcloak wrote:
I think it's a question of who is going to fire first, the Transport or the Troops?

I HATE it when people do their flat out as part of their movement, that's not how it works!

I'm pretty sure the shoo/ flat out restriction applies only to the transport itself. If you fire with it, you can't decide to move flat out.

The real question is does moving the transport flat-out mean that the passengers are also making a "run" move, or are they unaffected?

Oh my god, everything you say is like you've never read the rulebook before. Flat Out clearly says the passangers can't shoot if you do.

 Peregrine wrote:

Angelic wrote:
Q: If a Transport vehicle has a unit embarked upon it, and that unit makes a shooting attack, can the vehicle then move Flat Out in the same Shooting phase? (p78)
A: No.

See, that was much more productive. Instead of just posting zero-content "sigh" spam you pointed out that GW published an "FAQ" that blatantly changes the rule instead of answering a question.

It doesn't blatantly change a rule. It clarifies that you're not actually allowed to do something that's already illegal.
- Edited by insaniak -

Angelic wrote:

 Luusormi wrote:
Thanks Peregrine!

Sigh....

why "sigh"? that´s not very nice. try to behave! it´s just a game after all...

rigeld2 wrote:
It doesn't blatantly change a rule. It clarifies that you're not actually allowed to do something that's already illegal.

But it wasn't already illegal before that FAQ. The rules banned moving flat out and then shooting, but did not ban moving flat out if the unit shot already. The only restriction is on the unit's shooting, no restriction at all is imposed on the vehicle's flat out move. And you can't restrict a unit's actions based on what may happen someday in the future.

Contrast this with tank shocks, where the rules specifically forbid both embarking/disembarking from a vehicle that has already tank shocked AND tank shocking after a unit has embarked/disembarked.

 Peregrine wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
It doesn't blatantly change a rule. It clarifies that you're not actually allowed to do something that's already illegal.

But it wasn't already illegal before that FAQ. The rules banned moving flat out and then shooting, but did not ban moving flat out if the unit shot already. The only restriction is on the unit's shooting, no restriction at all is imposed on the vehicle's flat out move. And you can't restrict a unit's actions based on what may happen someday in the future.

Contrast this with tank shocks, where the rules specifically forbid both embarking/disembarking from a vehicle that has already tank shocked AND tank shocking after a unit has embarked/disembarked.

It was. Absolutely.

They cannot fire if the vehicle moves Flat Out or uses smoke launchers that turn.

They fired? Then the transport going Flat Out would mean that the unit could not have shot. Which means there was an illegal action performed that turn.
I've never said that the firing unit is restricted - stop pretending I have. It's the vehicle that is restricted because of the embarked units actions.

 Peregrine wrote:
And you can't restrict a unit's actions based on what may happen someday in the future.

You most definitely can, and the rules quite specifically did. Your entire position is based on something you made up that directly contradicts the rules.

 Luusormi wrote:

Angelic wrote:

 Luusormi wrote:
Thanks Peregrine!

Sigh....

why "sigh"? that´s not very nice. try to behave! it´s just a game after all...

I think the "sigh" is from the fact that every single person except 1 said you can't do it, and you say "thanks" to the 1 single person who agrees with you despite that person being wrong... I'll also sigh , but I'll add a

Clearly by the rules stated embarked units cannot fire out of a vehicle that moves flat out or fired smoke launchers that turn means you must first determine if the vehicle is going to do either of those things before the embarked passengers choose to fire or not.

It's an illegal action with or without the FAQ. The FAQ just stops this word play nonsense.