Alpahrius/Omegon

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**slade the sniper**

Question: Does Alpharius and Omegon count as one of the 20 primarchs, or what? Just asking, since I can't seem to find the answer anywhere and I know that someone here will know...

If both of them counted as a single primarch...then why didn't the Alpha legion just overpower their opponents with sheer power, since, you know, they had 2 primarchs?

Related question: All the fluff seems to indicate the Alpha legion were pretty close to "practical" marines and seemed to have some forward thinking ideas about supporting elements (logistics, intel, admin, covert ops, etc.) and used their allies to their fullest potential and not just as serfs. So, again, why were the Alpha Legion seen as being "less" than the other Legions? Just wondering since the Alpha Legion would seem to have a lot of advantages over other legions other than being the youngest legion.

-STS

**EyeOfDC**

I believe they are counted as one primarch.

**Kerrathyr**

Yes, Alpharius andhis twin Omegon are "the 20" primarch.
They are also primarchs more similar, in size, to regular marines... Not so much of a stretch to think they kind of lack the physical prowess of other primarchs especially on the strength side (others being able to backhand a head off).
Moreover, they had a knack for stealth, intelligence, infiltration and so on... So it was a 'strategic asset' to be perceived as "lesser", or "weak", I think

**somecallmeJack**

They count as one primarch.

It's not a question of 'more primarchs = more power', the alpha legion always kept their two primarchs a secret. As far as we know, the imperium doesnt know about omegon to this day. This allowed the alpha legion's primarch to seem like he was in two places at once. They frequently substituted bigger marines to stand in for the primarch when required too, which casts doubt on which, if any of the alpha legion's two primarchs were slain by guilliman.

**Iron_Captain**

Alpharius/Omegon are one primarch.
1d4chan sums it up nicely:

Alpharius is the mysterious Primarch of the Alpha Legion. We don't have much information on him other than that Omegon, his bro, looks exactly like Alpharius, but we also don't know which one is which. He was supposedly killed by Roboute Guilliman of the Ultramarines, but we may never exactly know if he killed Alpharius or Omegon (or even just a decoy), since the two look exactly the same. For all we know the entire Alpha legion is Alpharius and Omegon. And since the entire Alpha Legion looks the same and they could all be Alpharius or Omegon, Roboute Guilliman could have very well killed any random Alpha Legion member Hell, they're so secretive they may have betrayed the Imperium to help the Imperium, which helped Chaos beat down the Imperium, which actually helps the Imperium kick Failbaddon's ass. He could be the one that's making Abaddon fail so much.

But what the feth, we don't know. That's why we put this guy under both categories. gak's complicated.

tl;dr Alpharius is like Anonymous. There's over 3 billion of him and everyone is Alpharius. It's even worse than Spartacus.

Also, if you don't know anybody who is secretly Alpharius or Omegon, you probably are him (or the other one (or both (or neither(or all at the same time)))).

**Poly Ranger**

They were only considered 'lesser' by blunt, uninspired, 'im going to shove all my marines at that gun line until it collapses' primarchs. Also since they used so much stealth and did not want anybody else knowing where they had been and what they had done, a lot of their accomplishments were not recognised as Alpha Legion accomplishments.

**thenoobbomb**

Iron_Captain wrote:
Alpharius/Omegon are one primarch.
1d4chan sums it up nicely:

Alpharius is the mysterious Primarch of the Alpha Legion. We don't have much information on him other than that Omegon, his bro, looks exactly like Alpharius, but we also don't know which one is which. He was supposedly killed by Roboute Guilliman of the Ultramarines, but we may never exactly know if he killed Alpharius or Omegon (or even just a decoy), since the two look exactly the same. For all we know the entire Alpha legion is Alpharius and Omegon. And since the entire Alpha Legion looks the same and they could all be Alpharius or Omegon, Roboute Guilliman could have very well killed any random Alpha Legion member Hell, they're so secretive they may have betrayed the Imperium to help the Imperium, which helped Chaos beat down the Imperium, which actually helps the Imperium kick Failbaddon's ass. He could be the one that's making Abaddon fail so much.

But what the feth, we don't know. That's why we put this guy under both categories. gak's complicated.

tl;dr Alpharius is like Anonymous. There's over 3 billion of him and everyone is Alpharius. It's even worse than Spartacus.

Also, if you don't know anybody who is secretly Alpharius or Omegon, you probably are him (or the other one (or both (or neither(or all at the same time)))).

We are Legion.

**KorPhaeron77**

Also keep in mind the Alpha Legion were last to be reunited with the Emperor, just over 20 years before the Heresy, therefor they had a lot less time to prove themselves in the eyes of more celebrated Primarchs like Guilliman or The Lion.

**EVIL INC**

yes, the bobsy twins count as one primarch.
A lot of teir new ideas were kept to themselves because of the whole paranoia secrecy thing. Besides, The other primarchs had the BMF mentality (with good reason) and considered being sneaky as being cowardly. Being the weak baby sisters of the other primarchs, it only stands to reason that the bobsy twins fully imersed themselves in the ways of sneakyness to achieve the end goals that the other primarchs were ableto accomplish through direct means.

**BaconUprising**

They counted as one as nobody but their own legion new there were two of them...

**Da krimson barun**

thenoobbomb wrote:
Iron_Captain wrote:
Alpharius/Omegon are one primarch.
1d4chan sums it up nicely:

Alpharius is the mysterious Primarch of the Alpha Legion. We don't have much information on him other than that Omegon, his bro, looks exactly like Alpharius, but we also don't know which one is which. He was supposedly killed by Roboute Guilliman of the Ultramarines, but we may never exactly know if he killed Alpharius or Omegon (or even just a decoy), since the two look exactly the same. For all we know the entire Alpha legion is Alpharius and Omegon. And since the entire Alpha Legion looks the same and they could all be Alpharius or Omegon, Roboute Guilliman could have very well killed any random Alpha Legion member Hell, they're so secretive they may have betrayed the Imperium to help the Imperium, which helped Chaos beat down the Imperium, which actually helps the Imperium kick Failbaddon's ass. He could be the one that's making Abaddon fail so much.

But what the feth, we don't know. That's why we put this guy under both categories. gak's complicated.

tl;dr Alpharius is like Anonymous. There's over 3 billion of him and everyone is Alpharius. It's even worse than Spartacus.

Also, if you don't know anybody who is secretly Alpharius or Omegon, you probably are him (or the other one (or both (or neither(or all at the same time)))).

We are Legion.

Hi Azog!

**Psienesis**

Creed is actually Alpharius... and so is Thrakka.

**Maniac_nmt**

slade the sniper wrote:
Question: Does Alpharius and Omegon count as one of the 20 primarchs, or what? Just asking, since I can't seem to find the answer anywhere and I know that someone here will know...

If both of them counted as a single primarch...then why didn't the Alpha legion just overpower their opponents with sheer power, since, you know, they had 2 primarchs?

Related question: All the fluff seems to indicate the Alpha legion were pretty close to "practical" marines and seemed to have some forward thinking ideas about supporting elements (logistics, intel, admin, covert ops, etc.) and used their allies to their fullest potential and not just as serfs. So, again, why were the Alpha Legion seen as being "less" than the other Legions? Just wondering since the Alpha Legion would seem to have a lot of advantages over other legions other than being the youngest legion.

-STS

It's been noted by others, the twins are physically smaller and 'weaker' than the other primarchs, being about the same size as a normal marine (letting them swap places with rank and file marines often). They had less time, and possibly one of the smaller legions. From what little we see of them pre-heresy it is often only a small handful of marines mixed in with baseline and modified humans. These humans being considered peers and equals.

I also wouldn't say most 'practical', they are the Delta Force, Navy SEALs, or SAS of Marines. Drop a few behind enemy lines to create insurgency cells. The problem is that such actions can end up blowing up in your face after you win. See the Taliban/Afghanistan (who the west helped fund and train on the sly when the Russians were in Afghanistan)...Such actions work very well when you are vastly outnumbered and you are trying to just mess everything up for the other guy, but eventually you have to fight in other ways also.

**slade the sniper**

Ah, I misspoke, I was meaning "reasonable marines" instead of practical...by which I mean using cover, concealment, combined arms, intelligence gathering, etc. instead of the normal BFG + medieval tactics we see in a lot of the setting.

-STS

**Maniac_nmt**

slade the sniper wrote:
Ah, I misspoke, I was meaning "reasonable marines" instead of practical...by which I mean using cover, concealment, combined arms, intelligence gathering, etc. instead of the normal BFG + medieval tactics we see in a lot of the setting.

-STS

The Raptors, Ravenguard, and many others are 'reasonable' marines in that regard. Heck, despite the fluff trying to rub it out, all marines at one point used cover/camo/combined arms/etc. A lot of the early pictures will show you marines in camo, the original rhino solicits and box showed Ultramarines and others in camo, and the Badab War stuff has a lot of specialty camo patterns for the various chapters who took part in that.

The Black Templars, Space Wolves, Blood Angels, and so forth just tend to blot that out with the 'rawr! bum rush 'em as a supreme tactical maneuver'.

For all the $$$$$$$$ about 6th and shooting, it still doesn't even come close to how suicidal a 'hit them over the head with a bolter instead of shooting it' tactic would be that so many people have loved to play. Yes, CQC happens, but it generally involves a lot of shooting too.

**Alpharius**

A lot of this 'smaller' stuff is new fluff. As for 'weaker'?

Yeah, not buying that.

(Obviously.)

In their old Index Astartes article, Alpharius was nearly as tall as Horus, and his marines were said to all be unusually tall.

Either way, it still takes a very large marine to impersonate one of the twins.

**Boss Kosvec**

im pretty sure that Alpahrius and Omegon count as one primarch since they were twins by accident, the emporer probably didn't intend for this to happen or he did we simply don't know, but in wider terms to the rest of the imperium they only ever saw one at a time that's why they are referred to as one being Alpahrius Omegon. its unknown if both exist or just the one in the current date of 40k or if somehow they became one but no they only count as one primarch.

**Da krimson barun**

Psienesis wrote:
Creed is actually Alpharius... and so is Thraka.

.....*Raises kombi slugga*..."UNORKY"! *Dakka*

**Maniac_nmt**

Boss Kosvec wrote:
im pretty sure that Alpahrius and Omegon count as one primarch since they were twins by accident, the emporer probably didn't intend for this to happen or he did we simply don't know, but in wider terms to the rest of the imperium they only ever saw one at a time that's why they are referred to as one being Alpahrius Omegon. its unknown if both exist or just the one in the current date of 40k or if somehow they became one but no they only count as one primarch.

What if they have always only ever been one person/body, and the two halves are just split personalities? Dun dun dun.

**squidhills**

Maniac_nmt wrote:

What if they have always only ever been one person/body, and the two halves are just split personalities? Dun dun dun.

Alpharius is Tyler Durden?

**Ashiraya**

squidhills wrote:
Maniac_nmt wrote:

What if they have always only ever been one person/body, and the two halves are just split personalities? Dun dun dun.

Alpharius is Tyler Durden?

Alpharius is everyone, you know.

**ThePrimordial**

Kerrathyr wrote:
Yes, Alpharius andhis twin Omegon are "the 20" primarch.
They are also primarchs more similar, in size, to regular marines... Not so much of a stretch to think they kind of lack the physical prowess of other primarchs especially on the strength side (others being able to backhand a head off).
Moreover, they had a knack for stealth, intelligence, infiltration and so on... So it was a 'strategic asset' to be perceived as "lesser", or "weak", I think

Angron could grab a marine's torso in his hand (yes he could fit his hand around the torso to a decent extent) and throw them a hundred meters by it.
You're damn right they're weaker.

**TiamatRoar**

Wasn't it stated somewhere that they shared the same soul? I could be wrong

**Zaki66**

Psienesis wrote:
Creed is actually Alpharius... and so is Thrakka.

Amen.

**KommissarKiln**

As just a simple guardsman, I'm very unfamiliar with all of the lore that started in 30k like Primarch shenanigans, so this thread has been very informative

If Creed actually is Alpharius, then PLOT TWIST: Omegon is actually Creed.

**BaconUprising**

ThePrimordial wrote:
Kerrathyr wrote:
Yes, Alpharius andhis twin Omegon are "the 20" primarch.
They are also primarchs more similar, in size, to regular marines... Not so much of a stretch to think they kind of lack the physical prowess of other primarchs especially on the strength side (others being able to backhand a head off).
Moreover, they had a knack for stealth, intelligence, infiltration and so on... So it was a 'strategic asset' to be perceived as "lesser", or "weak", I think

Angron could grab a marine's torso in his hand (yes he could fit his hand around the torso to a decent extent) and throw them a hundred meters by it.
You're damn right they're weaker.

Yes he could fit his hand around a marine but he tossed him less h
than half the length of a crowded stormbird, nowhere near 100m.

**ThePrimordial**

BaconUprising wrote:
ThePrimordial wrote:
Kerrathyr wrote:
Yes, Alpharius andhis twin Omegon are "the 20" primarch.
They are also primarchs more similar, in size, to regular marines... Not so much of a stretch to think they kind of lack the physical prowess of other primarchs especially on the strength side (others being able to backhand a head off).
Moreover, they had a knack for stealth, intelligence, infiltration and so on... So it was a 'strategic asset' to be perceived as "lesser", or "weak", I think

Angron could grab a marine's torso in his hand (yes he could fit his hand around the torso to a decent extent) and throw them a hundred meters by it.
You're damn right they're weaker.

Yes he could fit his hand around a marine but he tossed him less h
than half the length of a crowded stormbird, nowhere near 100m.

Just finished Betrayer and still divulging it. My apologies.
I thought they were in a small inbound cruiser?

**squidhills**

BrotherHaraldus wrote:
squidhills wrote:
Maniac_nmt wrote:

What if they have always only ever been one person/body, and the two halves are just split personalities? Dun dun dun.

Alpharius is Tyler Durden?

Alpharius is everyone, you know.

I'M ALPHARIUS?

My loyalist Space Marine models are going to be so disappointed in me, now...

**Da krimson barun**

Psienesis wrote:
Creed is actually Alpharius... and so is Thrakka.

Wait,Why is da biggest baddest boss and some humie both dis CREEEEEEEEEEEED!git?(ha!I used your grammarz to point out that you said thrakka and alpharius are both creed not that alpharius is creed and thrakka!WAAAAAGH!(Lets make bets that I'm wrong before its too late)

**Ashiraya**

ThePrimordial wrote:
BaconUprising wrote:
ThePrimordial wrote:
Kerrathyr wrote:
Yes, Alpharius andhis twin Omegon are "the 20" primarch.
They are also primarchs more similar, in size, to regular marines... Not so much of a stretch to think they kind of lack the physical prowess of other primarchs especially on the strength side (others being able to backhand a head off).
Moreover, they had a knack for stealth, intelligence, infiltration and so on... So it was a 'strategic asset' to be perceived as "lesser", or "weak", I think

Angron could grab a marine's torso in his hand (yes he could fit his hand around the torso to a decent extent) and throw them a hundred meters by it.
You're damn right they're weaker.

Yes he could fit his hand around a marine but he tossed him less h
than half the length of a crowded stormbird, nowhere near 100m.

Just finished Betrayer and still divulging it. My apologies.
I thought they were in a small inbound cruiser?

Nah, they serve the same role as a Thunderhawk, though they are considerably larger.