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1. Do Tau ICs with Jet Pack still get a thrust move if they are attached to non-jet pack units? I.E. A Tau commander attached to a Tac squad.

I've read through some threads and theres a split between RAI and RAW; RAW reading would indicate no, although an argument for keeping the thrust move can be made.

2. Do Tau ICs get to Supporting Fire since it's on a model-by-model basis when attached to non-Tau Slow and Purposeful units?

1) Noone really knows. GW doesn't have any rules that define how to move mixed-unit-types units (although they do for charging I think?). Since the only time an IC can leave the unit is during the movement phase he would need to remain in coherency.

2) A Tau model attached to a non-Tau unit would normally get to use Supporting Fire, but Slow and Purposeful would deny you the opportunity to Overwatch. That is how I read it, though surely someone will pop up with the "Codex>Rulebook" argument.

I'm not sure if someone would make that argument. Supporting Fire says they may fire Overwatch "as if they were also targets of the charge." If they were targets, they wouldn't be able to fire Overwatch.

Angelic is right.

Still no consensus on the jet-pack thing though?

Don't think so. I've seen it allowed most of the time.

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
Angelic is right.

Still no consensus on the jet-pack thing though?

Jet pack assault movement is worded in such a way that it is Units of Jet pack only... sort of.

It is at the very least assumptive that you will only have a unit of Jet-pack models; which does not address Mixed Unit type(poor choice of wording, should be "Model Type") units.

So, yeah, No consensus.

The problem seems from one simple fact:
It is possible to read the words 'Jump Pack Unit' as a single term, instead of separating them out into individual words. This sub-section informs us of the fact these Unit-Types will always have a primary unit-type along side this secondary unit-type. This creates the need for a single term that could incorporate all combinations of these types, one that makes it so we do not need to write out every combination possible when talking about just this secondary unit-type. As the title of this sub-section is "Jump Unit" or "Jet Pack Unit," it is perfect to use as an individual term to incorporate all units which will fall under the rules found within. Should that be the case, then it is no longer possible to read these sections as 'a unit consisting entirely of' as we are once more talking about something which effects individual models. This is in line with the rest of the Unit Type Section, which details factors found on individual models throughout, so I feel it is a better definition to be using.

The idea of reading it as 'a unit consisting of' also has a precedent problem:
I bring this to your attention because the Special Rule section found within these subsections. Within you will find the same 'Jump/Jet Pack Unit' terminology found here as it is found throughout the rest of this section. By applying the definition that 'Jump/Jet Pack Unit' means 'a unit consisting of Jump/Jet Pack models' we encounter some very interesting and confusion things: All these Special Rules, that where designed to for individual models at that, would now be stripped away as soon as a non-Jump/Jet Pack model joins them. The most broken outcome of this definition being the ability to fit more models into a Jump/Jet Pack capable transport then legally allowed had the Non-Jump/Jet Pack unit not joined them!

After all, one of the Special Rules that would be magically stripped from them is 'Bulky,' so this definition makes it possible for us to double the transport capacity simply by slapping a standard infantry model along side the Bulky ones. With more transports gaining the capability of carrying Jump or Jet Pack units, it will become more common for them to be embarking into transports. Already I have carried out a double-take on fortifications as a Tau player, thanks to all buildings being considered Jump/Jet Pack - Infantry unit capable transports. I know I should not have the power to shove a fully decked out Stealth Team into a forward fortification, simply because the Ethereal with them has some mean Tetris skills.

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
1. Do Tau ICs with Jet Pack still get a thrust move if they are attached to non-jet pack units? I.E. A Tau commander attached to a Tac squad.

I've read through some threads and theres a split between RAI and RAW; RAW reading would indicate no, although an argument for keeping the thrust move can be made.

Unit type is a bit of a misnomer. Models have unit types, not units. Even with out an IC its possible to have a unit with two or more models with different unit types. We also know that movment distance is handled ona per model basis, not a per unit basis.

BRB pg10 wrote: Sometimes, a unit will contain models that move at different speeds.When this is the case, each model can move up to its maximum movement allowance so long as it remains in unit coherency.

Put all that together and we get that each model may make movements based on its own unit type so a jet pack model would be allowed a thrust move even while in a unit of non-jet pack models as long as the movement maintains coherency. The only time you don't need coherency is if your IC is leaving the unit in the movement phase.

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:

2. Do Tau ICs get to Supporting Fire since it's on a model-by-model basis when attached to non-Tau Slow and Purposeful units?

Yes, they get to do supporting fire but its not what you think. They get to fire over watch as if they where the unit being charged, and slow and purposeful units do not get to fire over watch when they are charged so in this case supporting file lets you do nothing because that's what you would be able to do if you had been charged.

JinxDragon wrote:
The problem seems from one simple fact:
It is possible to read the words 'Jump Pack Unit' as a single term, instead of separating them out into individual words. This sub-section informs us of the fact these Unit-Types will always have a primary unit-type along side this secondary unit-type. This creates the need for a single term that could incorporate all combinations of these types, one that makes it so we do not need to write out every combination possible when talking about just this secondary unit-type. As the title of this sub-section is "Jump Unit" or "Jet Pack Unit," it is perfect to use as an individual term to incorporate all units which will fall under the rules found within. Should that be the case, then it is no longer possible to read these sections as 'a unit consisting entirely of' as we are once more talking about something which effects individual models. This is in line with the rest of the Unit Type Section, which details factors found on individual models throughout, so I feel it is a better definition to be using.

The idea of reading it as 'a unit consisting of' also has a precedent problem:
I bring this to your attention because the Special Rule section found within these subsections. Within you will find the same 'Jump/Jet Pack Unit' terminology found here as it is found throughout the rest of this section. By applying the definition that 'Jump/Jet Pack Unit' means 'a unit consisting of Jump/Jet Pack models' we encounter some very interesting and confusion things: All these Special Rules, that where designed to for individual models at that, would now be stripped away as soon as a non-Jump/Jet Pack model joins them. The most broken outcome of this definition being the ability to fit more models into a Jump/Jet Pack capable transport then legally allowed had the Non-Jump/Jet Pack unit not joined them!

After all, one of the Special Rules that would be magically stripped from them is 'Bulky,' so this definition makes it possible for us to double the transport capacity simply by slapping a standard infantry model along side the Bulky ones. With more transports gaining the capability of carrying Jump or Jet Pack units, it will become more common for them to be embarking into transports. Already I have carried out a double-take on fortifications as a Tau player, thanks to all buildings being considered Jump/Jet Pack - Infantry unit capable transports. I know I should not have the power to shove a fully decked out Stealth Team into a forward fortification, simply because the Ethereal with them has some mean Tetris skills.

Thanks for the eloquent explanation of this. My Loth bomb just got that much better

Wait till you find about Escape Hatches...

Just talk it over with your opponent. Most people are pretty relaxed and wont be TFG. I would say that so long as the movement ends in coherency, you can do it. I mean, that makes sense to me. It would be stupid if you had a character that had a jet pack and didn't want to use it because it might hurt the feelings of his friends without one. :C

I've been playing it strict RAW so far, with no thrust moves. It's useful to have alternative interpretations.

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I've been playing it strict RAW so far, with no thrust moves. It's useful to have alternative interpretations.

Well an example of this is the Tau Sniper drone squad. The firesight marksman is a normal firewarrior with a markerlight. The drones are jet pack. The usefulness of this squad depends on the ability for the drones to JSJ. Otherwise it's just straight gak.

Just don't go jumping them into terrain....
Turn 1, first move and I watched 4 drones explode themselves before the enemy had even fired.

AnonAmbientLight wrote:

 Asmodai Asmodean wrote:
I've been playing it strict RAW so far, with no thrust moves. It's useful to have alternative interpretations.

Well an example of this is the Tau Sniper drone squad. The firesight marksman is a normal firewarrior with a markerlight. The drones are jet pack. The usefulness of this squad depends on the ability for the drones to JSJ. Otherwise it's just straight gak.

Yes but it's a Jet Pack Unit in the unit entry, I believe.

Unit-types are model specific, in the army-lists entry it is simply a 'heavy' unit.

Ah, the entry says Infantry and Jet Pack Infantry (Drone). I guess the RAI is for them to be able to jsj with the controller.

Page 10 - BRB

For assault pg. 21 BRB

Basically to summarize they can move however they want so long as they stay in coherency. IE jump pack guy can jump pack but he must remain in coherency while doing so.

Tau drones can jsj but must remain in coherency with the controller.

For charges you roll based off the slowest model.