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I am completely new to Warmahordes, and want to make myself a list before going out to buy stuff, but I need som help - I have been looking at tacticas and other analysises of the units from Cygnar (Whom I plan playing), but its hard to get the feel of the synergy of the units, because I haven't experienced a real game yet, less so played one.

Therefor, I would like to get some advice on what to put in my list. Here is my prescriptions:

Must be 'Jack-heavy. I reaaaally love 'Jacks, and they are what makes IK so special.
I like the Stormnouns, and would love to include them, if it fits the list.
I don't really like Tempests and Long Gunners, but will take them if needed.
I kinda like Trenchers, but I don't want them to be my main focus. Or maybe I do. I am not sure.
For some reason, I hate cavalry. Don't ask.
I want one Stormclad just because.
I like the Centurion, Grenadier and Firefly in looks and rules, but I don't need them per say.
I have no idea about 'Casters. Possibly Nemo3 or Siege ('Cause he pities the fools). Don't really care for Haley, though.


So? I am sure you vets can stitch something together, or at least help me do so! Thank you in advance!

Sounds to me like you are pretty much restricted to the Nemos, Kraye and Darius. These guys run big groups of warjacks pretty well, which fits your jack heavy requirement.
Long gunners and trenchers are over-costed for what they do, and can be replaced with arcane tempest gun mages with UA who handle infantry pretty well.
Heres a sample list I made. Silverline stormguard are incredible with Nemo3 thanks to their +2 damage to lightning attacks. Under Nemo3's feat and the silverline buff, your Thunderhead is pulling off Power 16 3D6 shots, as well as an auto hitting Power 14 pulse.
Reinholdt gives Nemo an extra shot with his awesome gun, and the Lancer lets you arc Force Hammer or Chain Lightning a long long way across the table.

System: Warmachine
Faction: Cygnar
Casters: 1/1
Points: 50/50
Artificier General Nemo (*3pts)
* Lancer (6pts)
* Stormclad (10pts)
* Thunderhead (12pts)
Arcane Tempest Gun Mages (Leader and 5 Grunts) (6pts)
* Arcane Tempest Gun Mage Officer (2pts)
Silver Line Stormguard (Leader and 9 Grunts) (9pts)
Captain Arlan Strangewayes (2pts)
Journeyman Warcaster (3pts)
Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator (1pts)
Rhupert Carvolo, Piper of Ord (2pts)

SamTheMan321 wrote:
Sounds to me like you are pretty much restricted to the Nemos, Kraye and Darius. These guys run big groups of warjacks pretty well, which fits your jack heavy requirement.
Long gunners and trenchers are over-costed for what they do, and can be replaced with arcane tempest gun mages with UA who handle infantry pretty well.

Yeah, I don't really like the idea of having to use the Cyclone for anti-infantry.

But keep in mind, that I am very much into style, rather than effectivity. The Trenchers may be a bit overcosted, but that doesn't matter all that much to me, as long as my list is cool.

And trenchers are definitely that. Cool

 The Wise Dane wrote:
I am completely new to Warmahordes, and want to make myself a list before going out to buy stuff, but I need som help - I have been looking at tacticas and other analysises of the units from Cygnar (Whom I plan playing), but its hard to get the feel of the synergy of the units, because I haven't experienced a real game yet, less so played one.

!

First up, welcome to the iron kingdoms. Don't forget to pick up your goggles and Stryker plushie

Right, now onto the nuts and bolts - if you're new to the game, start with the starter pack. What you're doing is jumping into the deep end. The starter packs are arguably the best way to get to grips with the game. It's best to start small and build up, rather than jumping straight into a big points sized army that will, in all likelihood be more than a bit overwhelming to so some just starting out.

 The Wise Dane wrote:

Therefor, I would like to get some advice on what to put in my list. Here is my prescriptions:

Must be 'Jack-heavy. I reaaaally love 'Jacks, and they are what makes IK so special.
I like the Stormnouns, and would love to include them, if it fits the list.
I don't really like Tempests and Long Gunners, but will take them if needed.
I kinda like Trenchers, but I don't want them to be my main focus. Or maybe I do. I am not sure.
For some reason, I hate cavalry. Don't ask.
I want one Stormclad just because.
I like the Centurion, Grenadier and Firefly in looks and rules, but I don't need them per say.
I have no idea about 'Casters. Possibly Nemo3 or Siege ('Cause he pities the fools). Don't really care for Haley, though.
!

Like I said, start with the starter pack, and build up. The problem as I see it is a lot of these prescriptions stand on each other's toes.

You want it to be jack heavy, but with stormnouns, and possibly trenches gun mages and long gunners.
Heavy jacks cost 8-10pts each, and going jack heavy implies going light on the infantry. In a 35pt game, three heavies suck up a huge amount of points, and never you mind how you're actually going to run them all with a limited pool of focus. And then You realise you've got very little left for all those troops and support pieces. First thing to realise therefore, is you can't have everything you name in a list (arguable, but there you go). The other thing to point out is jack heavy builds are limited. Convergence and protectorate are the best at running jack heavy as both gave great support pieces. Cygnar falls short compared to these two but even so, is still middle of the road in its ability to run multiple jacks well with casters like memo, but even so, you will see 1-2 jacks as the standard in most armies, rather than jack walls.

Right, now the good news is those pieces you mention are all viable.maybe not all together, or all at once, but you can build something good out of them. There is no point simply 'giving' you a list - this is not 40k. Everything can be built into a viable, game winning strategy. Eventually. Like I said above, if you're just starting out, the best thing to do is pick up the cygnar starter and go from there, preferably in a journeyman league

I wouldn't say the cyclone is just anti-infantry. with POW12 it can easily tear up the light warjacks.

Deadnight wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:
I am completely new to Warmahordes, and want to make myself a list before going out to buy stuff, but I need som help - I have been looking at tacticas and other analysises of the units from Cygnar (Whom I plan playing), but its hard to get the feel of the synergy of the units, because I haven't experienced a real game yet, less so played one.

!

First up, welcome to the iron kingdoms. Don't forget to pick up your goggles and Stryker plushie

Right, now onto the nuts and bolts - if you're new to the game, start with the starter pack. What you're doing is jumping into the deep end. The starter packs are arguably the best way to get to grips with the game. It's best to start small and build up, rather than jumping straight into a big points sized army that will, in all likelihood be more than a bit overwhelming to so some just starting out.

 The Wise Dane wrote:

Therefor, I would like to get some advice on what to put in my list. Here is my prescriptions:

Must be 'Jack-heavy. I reaaaally love 'Jacks, and they are what makes IK so special.
I like the Stormnouns, and would love to include them, if it fits the list.
I don't really like Tempests and Long Gunners, but will take them if needed.
I kinda like Trenchers, but I don't want them to be my main focus. Or maybe I do. I am not sure.
For some reason, I hate cavalry. Don't ask.
I want one Stormclad just because.
I like the Centurion, Grenadier and Firefly in looks and rules, but I don't need them per say.
I have no idea about 'Casters. Possibly Nemo3 or Siege ('Cause he pities the fools). Don't really care for Haley, though.
!

Like I said, start with the starter pack, and build up. The problem as I see it is a lot of these prescriptions stand on each other's toes.

You want it to be jack heavy, but with stormnouns, and possibly trenches gun mages and long gunners.
Heavy jacks cost 8-10pts each, and going jack heavy implies going light on the infantry. In a 35pt game, three heavies suck up a huge amount of points, and never you mind how you're actually going to run them all with a limited pool of focus. And then You realise you've got very little left for all those troops and support pieces. First thing to realise therefore, is you can't have everything you name in a list (arguable, but there you go). The other thing to point out is jack heavy builds are limited. Convergence and protectorate are the best at running jack heavy as both gave great support pieces. Cygnar falls short compared to these two but even so, is still middle of the road in its ability to run multiple jacks well with casters like memo, but even so, you will see 1-2 jacks as the standard in most armies, rather than jack walls.

Right, now the good news is those pieces you mention are all viable.maybe not all together, or all at once, but you can build something good out of them. There is no point simply 'giving' you a list - this is not 40k. Everything can be built into a viable, game winning strategy. Eventually. Like I said above, if you're just starting out, the best thing to do is pick up the cygnar starter and go from there, preferably in a journeyman league

Wise words - I'll look into that instead!

Thinking of possabilities - Some Grenadiers and perhaps a Minuteman in a Threncher-heavy army could be pretty cool. I know the Greny has good synergy with the Trenchers, and as guy above said, they are rad as all hell.

I think I'll go a bit more swarmy then. I was pretty mech-like with my Tau in 40K, so that'll be a change!

 The Wise Dane wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:
I am completely new to Warmahordes, and want to make myself a list before going out to buy stuff, but I need som help - I have been looking at tacticas and other analysises of the units from Cygnar (Whom I plan playing), but its hard to get the feel of the synergy of the units, because I haven't experienced a real game yet, less so played one.

!

First up, welcome to the iron kingdoms. Don't forget to pick up your goggles and Stryker plushie

Right, now onto the nuts and bolts - if you're new to the game, start with the starter pack. What you're doing is jumping into the deep end. The starter packs are arguably the best way to get to grips with the game. It's best to start small and build up, rather than jumping straight into a big points sized army that will, in all likelihood be more than a bit overwhelming to so some just starting out.

 The Wise Dane wrote:

Therefor, I would like to get some advice on what to put in my list. Here is my prescriptions:

Must be 'Jack-heavy. I reaaaally love 'Jacks, and they are what makes IK so special.
I like the Stormnouns, and would love to include them, if it fits the list.
I don't really like Tempests and Long Gunners, but will take them if needed.
I kinda like Trenchers, but I don't want them to be my main focus. Or maybe I do. I am not sure.
For some reason, I hate cavalry. Don't ask.
I want one Stormclad just because.
I like the Centurion, Grenadier and Firefly in looks and rules, but I don't need them per say.
I have no idea about 'Casters. Possibly Nemo3 or Siege ('Cause he pities the fools). Don't really care for Haley, though.
!

Like I said, start with the starter pack, and build up. The problem as I see it is a lot of these prescriptions stand on each other's toes.

You want it to be jack heavy, but with stormnouns, and possibly trenches gun mages and long gunners.
Heavy jacks cost 8-10pts each, and going jack heavy implies going light on the infantry. In a 35pt game, three heavies suck up a huge amount of points, and never you mind how you're actually going to run them all with a limited pool of focus. And then You realise you've got very little left for all those troops and support pieces. First thing to realise therefore, is you can't have everything you name in a list (arguable, but there you go). The other thing to point out is jack heavy builds are limited. Convergence and protectorate are the best at running jack heavy as both gave great support pieces. Cygnar falls short compared to these two but even so, is still middle of the road in its ability to run multiple jacks well with casters like memo, but even so, you will see 1-2 jacks as the standard in most armies, rather than jack walls.

Right, now the good news is those pieces you mention are all viable.maybe not all together, or all at once, but you can build something good out of them. There is no point simply 'giving' you a list - this is not 40k. Everything can be built into a viable, game winning strategy. Eventually. Like I said above, if you're just starting out, the best thing to do is pick up the cygnar starter and go from there, preferably in a journeyman league

Wise words - I'll look into that instead!

Thinking of possabilities - Some Grenadiers and perhaps a Minuteman in a Threncher-heavy army could be pretty cool. I know the Greny has good synergy with the Trenchers, and as guy above said, they are rad as all hell.

I think I'll go a bit more swarmy then. I was pretty mech-like with my Tau in 40K, so that'll be a change!

Don't get attached to any ideas until you really get a feel for how the game plays. Maybe even find somebody to do some pre-purchase proxying with before committing to purchases. There is a lot in the game that sounds cool in concept but either plays differently, or only with specific casters or specific contexts that wind up leaving players feeling disenchanted with their pieces.

Some things (not matter where they fall on the power scale), play a bit differently on the table than they look on paper. Get a feel for what you like about the game in practice before you lock down on any decisions. Warmachine/Hordes is a solid game, but it's unfortunately a bit opaque to the new player.

 The Wise Dane wrote:


I think I'll go a bit more swarmy then. I was pretty mech-like with my Tau in 40K, so that'll be a change!

Bear in mind, a swarm in this gamers about 30 dudes. It's not like 40k.

As a 'generic' list, You'll be looking at a caster, 1-2 jacks, maybe 2-3 squads, and some solos.

I'm not going to second the idea of getting the starter box- I really don't think it'll have the things you're interested in, and I don't think starter-box games are very representative of how the game plays.

What I would suggest is finding someone you know who plays Cygnar, or otherwise getting familiar with the WM community near you and chatting them up. Get some games under your belt through proxying or borrowing models. /Then/ I would buy the kinds of things you like.

As you are new to the game I would defo consider getting the starterbox and getting several games in. Will get you a handle on the basic rules and focus management and then you can expand from their.

Jumping in at bigger points and getting people to make you lists IMO is not a good idea as the learning curve will be incredible steep and you will be trying to figure not only how to play the game but trying to use a large set of models you are unfamiliar with and a list which might not even suit your style of play.

Dane, do you prefer light or heavy warjacks.

I agree with BoardroomHero on not getting the starter. Unless you're playing pStryker games, I never see anyone use the jacks from Cygnar's starter box. Correction, I saw someone use the heavy once. Once. And that was before the newer heavies came out.

Ask questions, learn about the game, check around if there's an Escalation league going on that you can get in at 15pts and work up to larger games with. It's very easy to buy models that wind up sitting on the shelf because you find you favor a different playstyle than what they offer.

 sing your life wrote:
Dane, do you prefer light or heavy warjacks.

Well, both. I like Heavies, but don't like the idea of a few Heavies taking all the room for 'Jacks in the list. My favorite designs are the Centurion and the Avenger. Ol' Rowdy is also pretty metal.

I like Lights because of the idea of waves upon waves of small mechanical monsters assisted by infantry. I can, however, live without them if I am gonna have a few of them as a max (like 1-3). My favorite designs are the Grenadier, Lancer and Firefly.


I thought of combo'ing a full unit of Sword Knights and their UAs with a Centurion, flanking the living gak out of any enemy the Cent gets in range of.

Kirbinator wrote:I agree with BoardroomHero on not getting the starter. Unless you're playing pStryker games, I never see anyone use the jacks from Cygnar's starter box. Correction, I saw someone use the heavy once. Once. And that was before the newer heavies came out.

Starting with the starter pack isn't necessarily about buying three or four pieces for your army. It's about learning the basics of the game. If anything, I find Stryker is perfect for learning to think like a warmachine player, as playing with the cygnar starter encourages you to think in terms of combos and combined arms. You can't solomachine it like butcher or sorscha can, and kreoss' pop n drop doesn't require massive thinking. Stryker relies on every piece at his disposal. Yeah, I think he's great to learn the game with.

And to be fair, ironclads are great, and chargers get quite a bit of use.

Kirbinator wrote:
Ask questions, learn about the game, check around if there's an Escalation league going on that you can get in at 15pts and work up to larger games with. It's very easy to buy models that wind up sitting on the shelf because you find you favor a different playstyle than what they offer.

Escalation leagues are the best way to learn the game, but bear in mind, they are based around the starter packs.

The Wise Dane wrote:
Well, both. I like heavies, but don't like the idea of a few Heavies taking all the room for 'Jacks in the list. My favorite designs are the Centurion and the Avenger. Ol' Rowdy is also pretty metal.

I like Lights because of the idea of waves upon waves of small mechanical monsters assisted by infantry. I can, however, live without them if I am gonna have a few of them as a max (like 1-3). My favorite designs are the Grenadier, Lancer and Firefly.

In terms of heavies and lights, you take heavies for concentrated force, and to bust open armour. You take lights for utility. I do think you've got the scale of the game wrong in your head. This is not a game where you see 'waves upon waves of small mechanical monsters'. This is a skirmish. The scale is a lot smaller. Less 40k apocalypse, and more necromunda. Heck, 40k sees commanders get medals because they lose ten million men in a day. In the iron kingdoms, khadors conquest of Llael (big deal in the fluff) cost 20,000 lives on all sides.A big army is thirty grunts and two or three jacks.

There is room for an army with some of all you mention though. Have no fear. Just think smaller!

Deadnight wrote:

Escalation leagues are the best way to learn the game, but bear in mind, they are based around the starter packs.

Ah, good point. I forgot the first Escalation we did here did start with battle box. The second time we had the option of whatever caster and a sub-15 allotment of points.

there maybe a slight problem with jack hvy armies and cygnar . your more or less limited to two casters and even those work better with a stormwall and some support .
Menoth on the other hand does jack heavy realy well.

Makumba wrote:
there maybe a slight problem with jack hvy armies and cygnar . your more or less limited to two casters and even those work better with a stormwall and some support .
Menoth on the other hand does jack heavy realy well.

Convergence (esp. under Syntherion) does it even better.

True, but most of their options aren't even out yet.

If I am not diverting too far from the subject matter here is how I catagorize Cygnar's Warjacks.

Stormwall = I treat this colossal as a super Defender. A multi-role warjack that is comfortable shelling from a distance or clobbering stuff up close with an awesome PoW 20 melee attack with electro leap.

I stated in another thread that I treat Cygnar's Warajcks like tanks and with adequate infantry support they're indeed a rolling thunderstorm of doom.

Cygnar hard kill warjacks: These warjacks are suited to taking on other warjacks and big-mean-and-nasties.

Stormclad - PoW 19 melee weapon, MAT 7, ARM 19 and electro leap with an extra focus from nearby stormknights this 10 point beast is truly Cygnar's lightning bruiser. I generally support this with stormnouns on anti-warjack roles.
Ironclad - A cheap beatstick of Cygnar with a MAT 7 I usually have this warjack tagging along with a unit of swordknights to take advantage of their marshalling ability and flanking tactic. This is used mainly for anti-warjack, heavy infantry roles.
Defender - Cygnar's main battle warjack. A PoW 15, RNG 16 ranged weapon and a PoW 16 melee this warjack is good in either melee or ranged. I usually have him marshalled with a ATGM UA, Strangeways or swordknights. Supported by long gunners, rangers, trenchers or ATGMs depending on the situation at hand. A multi-role jack.
Hammersmith - A slightly more expensive if not a more surgical answer to the Ironclad for a beatstick. If I need something knocked around and smashed up I bring this bad boy into play. It gets the same marshalling and support options as its cheaper cousin. This one is used on anti-warjack roles.
Centurion - My personal favorite and these warjacks are a real brick wall since they have area denial capabilities and hit like a ton. I tend to use the Centurion as a melee support heavy warjack supported by swordknights, trenchers and trencher commandos. This is used for anti-warjack, charge denial and melee unit support roles.
Avenger - This is becoming my second personal favorite as a short ranged defender. I know its RAT is laughable but Cygnar has ranged attack buffs out the butt so this is almost a non-issue. The Avenger is my breakthrough warjack with its seismic cannon to knockdown models to soften up models in shield wall for a charge from a support unit such as sword knights, trencher and trencher commandos. It's stun blade is nice to have to stall other warjacks for easy hits. Mainly anti-warjack, anti-infantry roles.
Cyclone - Cygnar's infantry mulcher. The Cyclone is my goto warjack if I'm up agaisnt an infantry heavy opponent such Khador, Cryx or any Hordes army. Not too shabby in melee for a double-handed throw but in most situations this is bit of a pinch. Dual covering fire and PoW 12s are going to make mince meat of infantry and light warjacks. I generally support this warjack with any ranged unit Cygnar has in its inventory albiet the electrical ranged attacks are risky. Anti-infantry, light anti-jack roles.

Cygnar soft kill warjacks. These warjacks are suited for more specialized roles to take on infantry, solos or just giving your opponent a bad day.

Hunter - This is my dedicated warjack destroyer, my M18 Hellcat. I occasionally field a pair of these light warjacks mainly for their armor piercing cannon to really soften up tough armor like Khador. They have pathfinder, extended control and parry to get out of melee safely. They're focus effecient, only need boosted damage since their RAT is higher than average.I support them with rangers and long gunners. Strictly anti-warjack role.
Sentinel - A cheap infantry mulcher but more importantly a meat-er-metal shield for my caster with the ability to take one for the caster. It's a tough little jack and for 4 points it is not bad for a support option for trenchers + UA along side the Grenadier. Infantry support, Caster defense roles.
Charger - This focus hungry warjack is turning out to be a fearsome hunter killer since it hits reliable and hits hard due to its powerful attack ability. I never field this one without a Journeyman warcaster. Enter the dynamic duo, charger and junior. Anti-solo role.
Firefly - Probably my least favorite jack with its weak melee and ranged ability but going heavy on lightning with any of the Nemos I have this jack as support for the stormcallers and supporting stormnouns. Lightning support roles.
Minuteman - Another personal favorite is this flea jumping Hunter chassis. A little focus hungry but with the havoc this little warjack can cause especially in a few Kraye and Haley lists he's a fun jack and hits pretty hard at close range. I usually support him with trenchers, ATGMs or Long gunners, sometimes swordknights. Anti-heavy infantry, anti-light warjack roles.
Grenadier - This is a favorite if I'm putting a full unit of trenchers plus all the UAs. You can't finder a better support jack for the grave diggers. Trencher and anti-infantry support roles.
Lancer - A tough little warjack and useful for casters who need to a bit of reach such as Haley, Brisbane, Stryker, Nemos and Caines. I suppport this jack with any melee unit although risky with models that have electro leap.

Honorable mentions:
Ol-Rowdy - A meaner and tougher variant of the Ironclad and pretty much happy with any melee oriented caster.
Thunderhead - If I got the points I definitely field him with Darius or any of the Nemos and a capable multi-role lightning bruiser with some of the best anti-infantry capabilities Cygnar has to offer.

Heavy Metal wrote:
If I am not diverting too far from the subject matter here is how I catagorize Cygnar's Warjacks.

Stormwall = I treat this colossal as a super Defender. A multi-role warjack that is comfortable shelling from a distance or clobbering stuff up close with an awesome PoW 20 melee attack with electro leap.

I stated in another thread that I treat Cygnar's Warajcks like tanks and with adequate infantry support they're indeed a rolling thunderstorm of doom.

Cygnar hard kill warjacks: These warjacks are suited to taking on other warjacks and big-mean-and-nasties.

Stormclad - PoW 19 melee weapon, MAT 7, ARM 19 and electro leap with an extra focus from nearby stormknights this 10 point beast is truly Cygnar's lightning bruiser. I generally support this with stormnouns on anti-warjack roles.
Ironclad - A cheap beatstick of Cygnar with a MAT 7 I usually have this warjack tagging along with a unit of swordknights to take advantage of their marshalling ability and flanking tactic. This is used mainly for anti-warjack, heavy infantry roles.
Defender - Cygnar's main battle warjack. A PoW 15, RNG 16 ranged weapon and a PoW 16 melee this warjack is good in either melee or ranged. I usually have him marshalled with a ATGM UA, Strangeways or swordknights. Supported by long gunners, rangers, trenchers or ATGMs depending on the situation at hand. A multi-role jack.
Hammersmith - A slightly more expensive if not a more surgical answer to the Ironclad for a beatstick. If I need something knocked around and smashed up I bring this bad boy into play. It gets the same marshalling and support options as its cheaper cousin. This one is used on anti-warjack roles.
Centurion - My personal favorite and these warjacks are a real brick wall since they have area denial capabilities and hit like a ton. I tend to use the Centurion as a melee support heavy warjack supported by swordknights, trenchers and trencher commandos. This is used for anti-warjack, charge denial and melee unit support roles.
Avenger - This is becoming my second personal favorite as a short ranged defender. I know its RAT is laughable but Cygnar has ranged attack buffs out the butt so this is almost a non-issue. The Avenger is my breakthrough warjack with its seismic cannon to knockdown models to soften up models in shield wall for a charge from a support unit such as sword knights, trencher and trencher commandos. It's stun blade is nice to have to stall other warjacks for easy hits. Mainly anti-warjack, anti-infantry roles.
Cyclone - Cygnar's infantry mulcher. The Cyclone is my goto warjack if I'm up agaisnt an infantry heavy opponent such Khador, Cryx or any Hordes army. Not too shabby in melee for a double-handed throw but in most situations this is bit of a pinch. Dual covering fire and PoW 12s are going to make mince meat of infantry and light warjacks. I generally support this warjack with any ranged unit Cygnar has in its inventory albiet the electrical ranged attacks are risky. Anti-infantry, light anti-jack roles.

Cygnar soft kill warjacks. These warjacks are suited for more specialized roles to take on infantry, solos or just giving your opponent a bad day.

Hunter - This is my dedicated warjack destroyer, my M18 Hellcat. I occasionally field a pair of these light warjacks mainly for their armor piercing cannon to really soften up tough armor like Khador. They have pathfinder, extended control and parry to get out of melee safely. They're focus effecient, only need boosted damage since their RAT is higher than average.I support them with rangers and long gunners. Strictly anti-warjack role.
Sentinel - A cheap infantry mulcher but more importantly a meat-er-metal shield for my caster with the ability to take one for the caster. It's a tough little jack and for 4 points it is not bad for a support option for trenchers + UA along side the Grenadier. Infantry support, Caster defense roles.
Charger - This focus hungry warjack is turning out to be a fearsome hunter killer since it hits reliable and hits hard due to its powerful attack ability. I never field this one without a Journeyman warcaster. Enter the dynamic duo, charger and junior. Anti-solo role.
Firefly - Probably my least favorite jack with its weak melee and ranged ability but going heavy on lightning with any of the Nemos I have this jack as support for the stormcallers and supporting stormnouns. Lightning support roles.
Minuteman - Another personal favorite is this flea jumping Hunter chassis. A little focus hungry but with the havoc this little warjack can cause especially in a few Kraye and Haley lists he's a fun jack and hits pretty hard at close range. I usually support him with trenchers, ATGMs or Long gunners, sometimes swordknights. Anti-heavy infantry, anti-light warjack roles.
Grenadier - This is a favorite if I'm putting a full unit of trenchers plus all the UAs. You can't finder a better support jack for the grave diggers. Trencher and anti-infantry support roles.
Lancer - A tough little warjack and useful for casters who need to a bit of reach such as Haley, Brisbane, Stryker, Nemos and Caines. I suppport this jack with any melee unit although risky with models that have electro leap.

Honorable mentions:
Ol-Rowdy - A meaner and tougher variant of the Ironclad and pretty much happy with any melee oriented caster.
Thunderhead - If I got the points I definitely field him with Darius or any of the Nemos and a capable multi-role lightning bruiser with some of the best anti-infantry capabilities Cygnar has to offer.

^

I am quite in a bind here - so many cool 'Jacks, so few points!


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Deadnight wrote:

Kirbinator wrote:I agree with BoardroomHero on not getting the starter. Unless you're playing pStryker games, I never see anyone use the jacks from Cygnar's starter box. Correction, I saw someone use the heavy once. Once. And that was before the newer heavies came out.

Starting with the starter pack isn't necessarily about buying three or four pieces for your army. It's about learning the basics of the game. If anything, I find Stryker is perfect for learning to think like a warmachine player, as playing with the cygnar starter encourages you to think in terms of combos and combined arms. You can't solomachine it like butcher or sorscha can, and kreoss' pop n drop doesn't require massive thinking. Stryker relies on every piece at his disposal. Yeah, I think he's great to learn the game with.

And to be fair, ironclads are great, and chargers get quite a bit of use.

Kirbinator wrote:
Ask questions, learn about the game, check around if there's an Escalation league going on that you can get in at 15pts and work up to larger games with. It's very easy to buy models that wind up sitting on the shelf because you find you favor a different playstyle than what they offer.

Escalation leagues are the best way to learn the game, but bear in mind, they are based around the starter packs.

The Wise Dane wrote:
Well, both. I like heavies, but don't like the idea of a few Heavies taking all the room for 'Jacks in the list. My favorite designs are the Centurion and the Avenger. Ol' Rowdy is also pretty metal.

I like Lights because of the idea of waves upon waves of small mechanical monsters assisted by infantry. I can, however, live without them if I am gonna have a few of them as a max (like 1-3). My favorite designs are the Grenadier, Lancer and Firefly.

In terms of heavies and lights, you take heavies for concentrated force, and to bust open armour. You take lights for utility. I do think you've got the scale of the game wrong in your head. This is not a game where you see 'waves upon waves of small mechanical monsters'. This is a skirmish. The scale is a lot smaller. Less 40k apocalypse, and more necromunda. Heck, 40k sees commanders get medals because they lose ten million men in a day. In the iron kingdoms, khadors conquest of Llael (big deal in the fluff) cost 20,000 lives on all sides.A big army is thirty grunts and two or three jacks.

There is room for an army with some of all you mention though. Have no fear. Just think smaller!

I am getting the starter pack, no doubt. I have to learn the gist of it some way, and pStryker seems like a good bet for that. Also some pretty nice jacks.

I think I might have miscalculated the size, or at least said it wrong. I believe that a usual army of Warmachine contains around 4-5 'Jacks, but as you said it, I migh have gotten that wrong. I just want those metal monsters so bad! ALso, I have this compulsive thing that makes me more comfortable with two or three of a unit/model than just one - I don't actually know why. That might be why I thought it was a larger gam than what it is.

Also, I have very bad memories of Escalation-leagues. I started 40K in one, got obliterated (obviously), whereafter I realized I was with the competetive crowd, when I was actually more of a fluffy/scenario kinda guy, where winning is less important, as long as the story of the games I play where cool.


Thanks for the help, lads! I didn't expect these kinds of responses, and they have helped me quite a lot to get an idea of how the game is like.
I'll keep working, and if you want, post new stuff as I get wiser.

I think I might have miscalculated the size, or at least said it wrong. I believe that a usual army of Warmachine contains around 4-5 'Jacks, but as you said it, I migh have gotten that wrong. I just want those metal monsters so bad! ALso, I have this compulsive thing that makes me more comfortable with two or three of a unit/model than just one - I don't actually know why. That might be why I thought it was a larger gam than what it is.

1-2 'Jacks is the norm for most mainstream lists in most factions, while 3-4 would probably be considered 'Jack heavy by any standard and well into the range of a gimmick list for many factions. 5+ 'Jacks is firmly in the range of the gimmick list and is going to work with a narrow number of pieces, with a narrow selection of casters and only in some factions.


This may be different for Cyriss, I haven't looked into them enough.


You can look at this link:

http://endgamegaming.net/tag/lists-cygnar/

It tracks lists used in events by some of the games top players. While I don't expect them to be too useful from an actual list building perspective as new player, it provides lots of examples that will may be good for getting a feel of what overall composition tends to be like.

The Wise Dane wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Dane, do you prefer light or heavy warjacks.

Well, both. I like Heavies, but don't like the idea of a few Heavies taking all the room for 'Jacks in the list. My favorite designs are the Centurion and the Avenger. Ol' Rowdy is also pretty metal.

I like Lights because of the idea of waves upon waves of small mechanical monsters assisted by infantry. I can, however, live without them if I am gonna have a few of them as a max (like 1-3). My favorite designs are the Grenadier, Lancer and Firefly.


I thought of combo'ing a full unit of Sword Knights and their UAs with a Centurion, flanking the living gak out of any enemy the Cent gets in range of.

well you might want to look at nemo1 since he gives buffs to both heavy and light warjacks [the other nemos are more suited to single weight jacks].

Oh and Avengers should be marshalled to ATGM officer since it fixes the warjacks mediocre range and RAT.

 sing your life wrote:

The Wise Dane wrote:

 sing your life wrote:
Dane, do you prefer light or heavy warjacks.

Well, both. I like Heavies, but don't like the idea of a few Heavies taking all the room for 'Jacks in the list. My favorite designs are the Centurion and the Avenger. Ol' Rowdy is also pretty metal.

I like Lights because of the idea of waves upon waves of small mechanical monsters assisted by infantry. I can, however, live without them if I am gonna have a few of them as a max (like 1-3). My favorite designs are the Grenadier, Lancer and Firefly.


I thought of combo'ing a full unit of Sword Knights and their UAs with a Centurion, flanking the living gak out of any enemy the Cent gets in range of.

well you might want to look at nemo1 since he gives buffs to both heavy and light warjacks [the other nemos are more suited to single weight jacks].

Oh and Avengers should be marshalled to ATGM officer since it fixes the warjacks mediocre range and RAT.

Thanks.

 The Wise Dane wrote:
I am getting the starter pack, no doubt. I have to learn the gist of it some way, and pStryker seems like a good bet for that. Also some pretty nice jacks.

I think I might have miscalculated the size, or at least said it wrong. I believe that a usual army of Warmachine contains around 4-5 'Jacks, but as you said it, I migh have gotten that wrong. I just want those metal monsters so bad! ALso, I have this compulsive thing that makes me more comfortable with two or three of a unit/model than just one - I don't actually know why. That might be why I thought it was a larger gam than what it is.

Also, I have very bad memories of Escalation-leagues. I started 40K in one, got obliterated (obviously), whereafter I realized I was with the competetive crowd, when I was actually more of a fluffy/scenario kinda guy, where winning is less important, as long as the story of the games I play where cool.


Thanks for the help, lads! I didn't expect these kinds of responses, and they have helped me quite a lot to get an idea of how the game is like.
I'll keep working, and if you want, post new stuff as I get wiser.

While I absolutely agree learning the game on a starter box size is probably best, that doesn't mean that ya' have to get the box to do it.

I would be very surprised if ya' couldn't get a 'loan' of a few models from a friend, or get a few tutorial games to learn the rules from a local pressganger. The mechanics are simple enough that you'll learn everything you can learn from the battle box within two-three 1-2 hour games, if it even takes that long. After that, I really don't feel you'll get much from matches of that scale (15ish points).

In regards to size: A heavy jack is between 6 and 13 points, with the majority sitting in the 8ish range. Units also vary by a similar amount, and will most often have 10 members (the majority of units are either 6 or 8 points for 10. Other values are much rarer). The average-small game is 35 points, and the average-large game is 50. When all is said and done though, you'll actually have ~41 or 56 points to play with, depending on your warcaster (warcasters add points, as opposed to subtract). So if you had only heavy jacks, you could probably fit 5, but it'd be hard and pretty one-dimensional.

Jack heavy normally means 3 or maybe 4.

But if you like Cygnar and Nemo2 you could run him with a ton of chargers for his fast turn. Very much a skew list but could be fun.

hey dane, welcome to the wonderful world of warmahordes.
Cygnar are a great faction and for the last couple of years or so have been very strong. Im not sure what your motivations for playing are but from a competitive POV its certainly worth having a look at hayley and kaine. Both love the stormwall and gun mages. These are 2 must buys IMO. Seige recently got a fairly decent NQ tier aswell.

Nemo is a bit of a dead end for me and I wouldnt bother tbh.

I started WM about 18 months ago and my advice would be to jump in straight at 50 points. Its by far the best miniatures game I have ever played and at 50 points you can make a list using most of the core units for your faction.

As a cygnar player you are going to want a stormwall, gun mages and UA, boom howler and co, a squire, strangeways, one or 2 lancers and the gun mage cav. Stick this in with ehayley and its a very competitive 50 point list that will teach you the fundimentals of the game.

Enjoy my 2 cents

George

which would also put him at 1 jack in his list and he doesn't want to do that. And at 50 pts you don't realy learn much , because a new player will be dead at the end of turn 1-2 , if his opponent plays a caster kill caster/build and against turtle builds he will have a long game where he will feel , he can't do a freaking thing. 25-35 is something a lot safer for a new player, specialy considering he starts with cygnar and wants jacks .

 Mordekiem wrote:


But if you like Cygnar and Nemo2 you could run him with a ton of chargers for his fast turn.

Why would you do that? Nemo2 has spells that buff heavy warjacks more.

George L. wrote:
hey dane, welcome to the wonderful world of warmahordes.
Cygnar are a great faction and for the last couple of years or so have been very strong. Im not sure what your motivations for playing are but from a competitive POV its certainly worth having a look at hayley and kaine. Both love the stormwall and gun mages. These are 2 must buys IMO. Seige recently got a fairly decent NQ tier aswell.

Nemo is a bit of a dead end for me and I wouldnt bother tbh.

I started WM about 18 months ago and my advice would be to jump in straight at 50 points. Its by far the best miniatures game I have ever played and at 50 points you can make a list using most of the core units for your faction.

As a cygnar player you are going to want a stormwall, gun mages and UA, boom howler and co, a squire, strangeways, one or 2 lancers and the gun mage cav. Stick this in with ehayley and its a very competitive 50 point list that will teach you the fundimentals of the game.

Enjoy my 2 cents

George

Thanks for the advice, but as am not competitive at all, much of you advice can be used.