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I mean, I am looking forward to 7e, but that means that Travis needs to decide on:

1. We using the new mission cards?
2. Are unbound armies allowed?
3. Are LoWs allowed?
4. Can we bring formations?
5. Are we using maelstrom or the old missions? or both?

With a new editions brings new decisions. We could do an all in type of deal for 7e and just see what happens, but we would need to be okay with some confusion definitely. I'm in either way of course.

pleasantnoodles wrote:
I mean, I am looking forward to 7e, but that means that Travis needs to decide on:

1. We using the new mission cards?
2. Are unbound armies allowed?
3. Are LoWs allowed?
4. Can we bring formations?
5. Are we using maelstrom or the old missions? or both?

With a new editions brings new decisions. We could do an all in type of deal for 7e and just see what happens, but we would need to be okay with some confusion definitely. I'm in either way of course.

He only needs to decide those things if you run an actual tournament. If you do, like we did for 6th, a learning day where you will be guaranteed games and some fun prizes but no strict structure then he need not do any of that. I think that is more what Mike has in mind than an actual full blown tournament.

I mean true, but then again this is the Game Empire Tournament Series

 OverwatchCNC wrote:
While I am not likely to attend, I most certainly would not attend if 6th edition were still being played. I have no interest in playing 6th edition, if a new ruleset is out I think the stores 40k Saturday should be devoted to learning the new rules not wallowing in those of a broken and failed edition. Just my $.02, look forward with events not backwards, even if that means it isn't an official "tournament".

As you know, I'm not real good at zingers and bon mots, but this post needs to be addressed, so I'll put down a few phrases and pieces, and John, you can cobble 'em together to make something coherent.

- want some cheese & crackers with your whine?
- sour grapes
- Not winning tourneys for your last umpteen appearances doesn't mean there's much wrong with the current edition
- ModelsWorkshop is a wonderful rules-writing company that makes meh models
- you really (rage) quit cause I started playing more and you were afraid of the curb stomping and Victory Dance I would do to you, had we matched
- Darrian, Andy & you. It's not the game, it's the playah's family status (as in Al & Peg Bundy syndrome).

... and that's all I got for now.

Casey, really...

Anyhow

I dont t think running 6th rules is the way to go. The same we we all learned how silly Escalation was together, we play the new rules together.


We all need to learn the new rules and as a group is always better then singular. I'll chat with Travis and see what he thinks. This wont be a tournament in any sense since we are all adjusting. There most likely wouldnt be a buy in and if games dont finish what ever.

We'd be more smoothing out the new phase and the integration of any other changes to the core game mechanics. The new extra crap will be decided on once we see what the actual rule book says. I still think 1500 pt list would be fine.

 MikeFox wrote:
Casey, really...

I'm sorry, man. I miss him in person so much ... You're right though. The 'Net is a sorry replacement for face-to-face mocking.

I'll go to FaceBook.

On a different note, not that anyone will miss me, but family gigs have conspired to have me in 3 separate places on Saturday the 14th. None of which are GE.

 Brothererekose wrote:

pleasantnoodles wrote:
Results were:
I (Tim) went 2-1 with O'vessa Utramarines 7 drop pod list went 3-0 for best overall

2 and 1 and then 3-0 ? I'm confused.

Who was the 7 Drop Podder?

Carlos was not BA, okay, my bad.

Didn't I see Adam Solis? He didn't bring his Imperial Knights? Huh.

Thanks, Tim.

I(adam) was there. I had the 4 knights, Master of the forge, 5 scouts and a hunter. Lost the first game to Johnathan and tabled the next 2 (Blood Angels and Farsite Enclave)

I'm realizing that the only way I can win is by tabling my opponent(unless the mission is Purge the Alien). The more models you have the harder it is for me to deal with all of them before the game ends.

The more I hear about it the more I am excited about the new edition.

Our fearless leader Travis has decided on how June will be dealt with.

Ok gentlemen, by the time this event arrives, The 7th ed. great crusade will have brought the light of the Imperium to the world, raised it from a technological dark age, fought off Ork Waaghs, rebuilt, turned out a nascent chaos cult movement, traded with dubious xenos races, and the Tyranids will have scoured the planet bare after a last-ditch holdout by brave and loyal Imperial defenders.

In other words, we'll have had the book for nearly a month and had plenty of time to digest at least our first impressions. With that in mind, I suggest the following (pending review of the actual rules as soon as I have them in my hands, too):

1750 points - 3 rounds - 7th Edition - Maelstrom of War Missions

Public comment on this is open now, please let me know what you think. I'm not even on the fence until I read the book, but this is the starting point.

Usual GEP tournament rules apply, as usual, of course.

Sounds good to me. Although no one really knows what kind of problems are going to arise with the rules changes, GE has never been a powergaming Tourny spot. Keep calm and Splinter poison on....

So everyone knows where I'm coming from on this:

1. We need to play 7th. The new rules will have been out for almost a month by the time this event rolls up, which means that sixth will be, effectively, a distant memory. The idea of a last-hurrah 6th tournament isn't bad, it's just the timing that killed it. If it was this weekend or next, then maybe, but with three weeks to go, it's just not a good plan.

2. We need to play a tournament-style, structured event. Don't get me wrong; I love herp-a-derp days where dudes can roll in and out at will, play a game, play some WatchHammer, then bail. But that doesn't lend itself to really seeing how things work or don't work, in the same way that we didn't really understand how out of control it would be to open the listbuilds until we played the Big One tournament. This isn't to say that I want the event to be competitive, in the sense of trying to find a top player, best imperial, best non, etc. I envision a more casual event, prizing-wise, that still has the structure of a standard three-round event.

Since this is our first date with Yivo, so to speak, I want to make sure we put it through the paces. That means putting as much of the new stuff in as seems workable. I don't think that will run contrary to the spirit of the event, when we're looking at it as a tournament dry-run, in a sense. Noodles is right, there is a lot to consider, particularly when we don't have books in-hand, which is why I'm not going to make any calls until I see it for myself. As ever, with GW the devil is in the details. But we will get to see it soon, and discussions can begin in earnest. I just wanted to make sure we had something on the calendar and you all knew how I'm approaching this before the bomb drops, since we don't yet know if this bomb is going to be more Smiths or more Megadeth. We will probably be there with bells on to try out all the new stuff and exult in all the cool new ways to play, but we could also just be playing Marvel Dice Masters while our armies sit on eBay!

TWO DAYS!!!

So... do I get to bring my c'tan out to play again? Cause... if so.... that would be.... just super. So super.

Whatever do you mean...?? You can play a C'Tan right out of the Necron Codex!

As for the Transcendent C'Tan nonsense... well, it all depends on how GW spins it in the book. All Signs point to Lords of War being part and parcel with the new game, so it will definitely be an issue for the community at large to reach a consensus on. My knee-jerk on format is that most 'standard' events will be battle-forged only, no Lords of War, formations yes, dataslates yes, Maelstrom of War missions (mostly because everyone is *really* tired of the Eternal War missions and having to whip out cards for some rounds and not others in an event is kind of a logistical headache). And something along those lines as a default means that when people decide to do an off-format event of something unique like Unbound only / Lords yes / etc., the rules for that stuff will be easily at hand.

Either way...

TWO DAYS!!

It has been my experience that the first tournaments have always been 1500 points. The lower points due to noses in the books. I would say no to Lords of War and yes to all the other funny business. I think the player sheets should have a place to tally VC, what with the new cards demanding that.

I will be in a lot to play 7th so I hope to be there and be square on the rules. I think this is going to be a red hot edition and I really want to see how factions take off. Iron Hands sound like a buff and SM getting all the disciplines, SWEET!

 sgtpjbarker wrote:
It has been my experience that the first tournaments have always been 1500 points. The lower points due to noses in the books. I would say no to Lords of War and yes to all the other funny business. I think the player sheets should have a place to tally VC, what with the new cards demanding that.

That's looking like where we'll be at, I totally spaced on the 1500 points. We've been doing higher points for so long now it didn't even occur to me.

People after playing 3 games of 7th I can not stress enough, PRACTICE IT!
There is more book keeping with the missions changing every turn and all the new powers. Come prepared.

Also Travis since the new ork book lands the week before can I use it? I'll practice it and read up on everything like a good little grot would.

Also since I'm most likely to be the only ork player as usual?

Pishaw!!! jus been waitin fer some proppa tools mate. don't fink youse da only warboss round ere ya filthy git.

Ok, I am going to be playing a lot in the next few weeks. Casey and I are going to try and meet and throw down with all the crazy combos. I have some CSM and an excuse to buy some deamons to get an idea if the psyker conjure is really as crazy as people say. I have a feeling EVERYONE will be doing the psyker thing from now on.

I have read and reread the rules. The little changes are everywhere and will be very tough to keep in mind. I think I will fine tooth comb the rules and put together a cheat sheet of things that look different. I was thinking vehicles wrecked are difficult only, passengers taking LD for stun/shocked hits, Flyer crash test, Flyer immobilized effect, and my favorite "what happened to my LD tests, where did they go".

Having played so much fantasy, I am feeling that the psyker phase is not as bad as the net would have you believe. The perils table is going to hit much more and to races that really never cared. I also feel that the psyker phase should go pretty smooth, as it does in fantasy, as far as a mechanic. It will mean people will not have to remember how much charge they have and forget to use their powers.

The HUGE thing I see is terrain. I think the days of area terrain are back. The book allow for cover in certain terrain to give you the old, "I am touching, so I get the cover save". I think the message here is go back to your old ways of area terrain, you have our blessing. I would like to see that happen at GE. Bringing back the touch it you get it would make it much easier to play and more enjoyable. I love WYSIWYG, but I really think it slows games down and make thinks difficult for very little game return. I don't know how many times I have had to say, do I get that cover, look again for me, please, high die at least, really, great, thanks or gee it's just a game, give me the save for crying out loud.

The largest change and this is a biggie.

Dedicated Transports are scoring and denial, WITHOUT passengers. So i can take 16 scoring and denial units. My head is still spinning on this one. The RHINO RUSH is back. Fish of Fury anyone?

Overall all, I am really happy with 7th, I think we have Deamons and CSM feeling viable again, we have a psyker phase worth something, and the crazy stuff fixed all over the place. Hell, I might even do an Ork army of speed freaks. Watch out Mike, I am going to give you a run for you money.

Well I'll be at the store today with 1500 CSM and Knights

Ok, first game was a blast. The system works, IMHO. The issues are in the list and always have been. I see a table with Imperial Knights and SMs, I think I need a lot of firepower, flyers, and some psykers. The list to watch is one that works that combo. Seriously, D6+6 hits is really powerful. Yesterday I had 15 dispel dice on the table. I tossed them all and came up with one six. I dropped them again and came up with 4. So you can shut off a power, but I don't think people are thinking out of the box yet. I really like the Psyker Phase. Just like fantasy, but the D6 fixes the heavy sway in luck that fantasy is plagued by. I need more games with more armies. Right now, I have to say that a GK army is very powerful. I think Gloom Prisms on a Necron army is going to be the same.

Need to play more!

 sgtpjbarker wrote:

Overall all, I am really happy with 7th, I think we have Deamons and CSM feeling viable again, we have a psyker phase worth something, and the crazy stuff fixed all over the place. Hell, I might even do an Ork army of speed freaks. Watch out Mike, I am going to give you a run for you money.

Umm you mean against my newly converted ork nob bikers who may or may not be riding raveners? Along with my Mega Nobz made from Ogryn riding on a Battlewagon made from a Terigon? BRING IT!

Blending vs. Layering, the game is afoot.

I would like to propose a sliiiiight rule amendment if we're going to use the tactical cards. Can we go ahead and say you can discard for free and draw a new one if the objective is physically impossible? For example, kill a psyker if you're playing tau, or destroy a flyer if the enemy has no flyers in their list. And I mean completely impossible, not just impossible at the moment. Otherwise the cards just seem to make it who drew the more possible hand.

I don't see the cards as a problem. The problem is the armies you bring and the tactics you use. The cards make the game so much more. The randomness is just right and it is much better than any game I played in 4th, 5th, or 6th. You have to plan each turn. Watch what your opponent gets and what you get and decide what to try for. Gone are the games that you watch players camp and then land on objectives turn six for the win. Those were boring and I am glad they are gone. The mix of objective capturing and in game mission specific jobs is exciting and fun. I am all for the tac cards and they must be kept, IMHO.

Plus you can discard 1 card at the end of your turn so you can easily get rid of whatever bad card you are dealt.

I played a couple of games of 7th and do like it very much. That said I have to strongly agree with discarding impossible to accomplish objectives right away. The points can really stack up quickly if luck is on your side, leaving your opponent in the dust even if they are playing perfectly.

 oddworx wrote:
I played a couple of games of 7th and do like it very much. That said I have to strongly agree with discarding impossible to accomplish objectives right away. The points can really stack up quickly if luck is on your side, leaving your opponent in the dust even if they are playing perfectly.

Were these games with your DE tourney list, largely unchanged?

I imagine the big BeastM unit would be able to secure two objectives at a time.

And, yes, kids, I know they can only grab 1 a Turn, but given Maelstrom unpredictability, a big unit foot print is an advantage.

I think TOs are going to be really thinking through the placement of objectives. Players are going to looking at placement as a much bigger part of the game. I don't think it matters if you take out the undoable cards. That may account for one or two a game. Terrain and objectives are huge and every turn matter now. I no longer have the game that comes down to the last turn roll. I really like that going away.

 sgtpjbarker wrote:
Terrain and objectives are huge and every turn matter now. I no longer have the game that comes down to the last turn roll. I really like that going away.

Maybe you'll earn the nick-name "Blow Out Barker".

I had thought that you enjoyed the Win or Lose on 'last roll' games. They're the ones I get the most kick out of.

Of course, if the game I'm playing has gone south for the opponent or me by turn 3 or 4, or, maybe 'capsized' is a better term? Then that means shaking hands earlier and having time to kibbutz over suds before the next round.

Whichever, I'm *for* keeping the Maelstrom TacObs for the foreseeable future. Then again, if 40k included a wallop on the head at the end of turns 2 and 4, I'd keep playing.

 Brothererekose wrote:

 oddworx wrote:
I played a couple of games of 7th and do like it very much. That said I have to strongly agree with discarding impossible to accomplish objectives right away. The points can really stack up quickly if luck is on your side, leaving your opponent in the dust even if they are playing perfectly.

Were these games with your DE tourney list, largely unchanged?

I imagine the big BeastM unit would be able to secure two objectives at a time.

And, yes, kids, I know they can only grab 1 a Turn, but given Maelstrom unpredictability, a big unit foot print is an advantage.

It was a version of my tourney army against Blood Angels, who I believe are the most underpowered codex. I would venture to say that if we drew each other's cards he would have definitely won. The discarding of impossible objectives would have balanced this out IMO.

I second, third or fourth (whatever it is) for the auto discard of unachievable missions. One in your starting hand isn't so bad, but when you start with 2 or three, it isn't fun.

As well, I know June technically started last weekend, but it is still the second Saturday right? So a week from this coming Saturday? As well, any idea when we will know the format and such?

Last question, the factions thing has me confused as for supplements. Is a supplement book say Ianden Eldar or Farsight Enclaves Tau a separate faction for the purposes of detachment selection? Or since they share rules from the same books (Ianden/Eldar, Farsight/ Tau Empire) they are no longer separate? I will re-read this section in the book again, but it sounded like detachments MUST be different in the matter of unit selection, that one detachment cannot have the same possible units of another detachment...