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 ninjafiredragon wrote:

well duh flakk is better than bright lances for anti air, but look at the statistics. there garbage.
I was saying take lances because they do well vs tanks that aren't fliers, in fact they do amazing, while flakk is below decent and triple more than TRIPLE the price.

compare flakk vs a crimson hunter or warp spiders. you'll see.

You don't fire Flakk at tanks. You fire Starshot, which has the same Str as BL. You usually outflank with Warwalkers to catch side armor and maybe show up after the enemy flier(s). How many vehicles have 13+ side armor? Remember, this is a TAC list. I suggest EMLs because they provide versatility. Flakk is good and, though it isn't cheap, is almost necessary whenever you take EML.

He already has Warp Spiders. You could suggest that he fill up those squads as an alternative.

I already acknowledged that Crimson hunter is a good AA/AT choice.

Yes, BL is good and has its place. Doesn't mean EML with Flakk is a waste.

Arbiter wrote:What about SL vs flakk missiles if the SL were TL by guide/prescience.

I don't think Dual SL is a viable option for AA, again due to the lack of a Farseer in the concerned list. But I like math, so I will accept your request and crunch them numbers.

4 Flakks without Guide: 4 x BS x Glance/Pen x Jink failing; Explodes chance (based on AP) x Pen chance
- vs AV12: 4 x 4/6 x 1/6(1/6) x 2/3 = 0.29 Glances, 0.29 Pens; 5% Explodes chance
- vs AV11: 4 x 4/6 x 1/6(2/6) x 2/3 = 0.29 Glances, 0.59 Pens; 10% Explodes chance
- vs AV10: 4 x 4/6 x 1/6(3/6) x 2/3 = 0.29 Glances, 0.89 Pens; 15% Explodes chance
4 Guided SLs: 16 shots x (BS1 x Guide) x Glance/Pen x Jink failing; Explodes chance (based on AP) x Pen chance
- vs AV12: 16 x 11/36 x 1/6(0/6) x 2/3 = 0.54 Glances, 0.00 Pens; 0% Explodes chance
- vs AV11: 16 x 11/36 x 1/6(1/6) x 2/3 = 0.54 Glances, 0.54 Pens; 9% Explodes chance
- vs AV10: 16 x 11/36 x 1/6(2/6) x 2/3 = 0.54 Glances, 1.09 Pens; 18% Explodes chance

Yes, Guided SLs do rather well vs fliers. The fact still remains you need to Guide them to achieve this.

no one uses flak for 25 pts its a point sink. If you really want anti air use the 80 pts you will save not getting the flakk missles and buy a ADL and get an icaruis or quad

 Nettik189 wrote:
no one uses flak for 25 pts its a point sink. If you really want anti air use the 80 pts you will save not getting the flakk missles and buy a ADL and get an icaruis or quad

You will be happy to learn that Flakk is only 10 points. It is a part of EML, which is not a worthless weapon. It is versatile and effective, even if it is costly.

Farseer Pef wrote:

 Nettik189 wrote:
no one uses flak for 25 pts its a point sink. If you really want anti air use the 80 pts you will save not getting the flakk missles and buy a ADL and get an icaruis or quad

You will be happy to learn that Flakk is only 10 points. It is a part of EML, which is not a worthless weapon. It is versatile and effective, even if it is costly.

...... Ok if you want to burn those points go for it. Ill be in the mean time using my war walkers as lance walkers, saving 20 points a piece, a total save of 60 points for the squadron. bright lances kill tanks bettter than emls by a good amount, and other anti air kill other air much better than flakk.

But if you want to burn those 60 points go ahead.

on a side note @Nettik189
Scatter and brightlance combo on the war walkers is mixed roles and shouldn't really go together.
x2 scatter lasers, or x2 bright lances.

So is the advice for the list war walkers?

x2 bright lances each are my favorite, but i have run them with x2 scatter lasers. those are the most competitive.

Farseer Pef wrote:

 Nettik189 wrote:
no one uses flak for 25 pts its a point sink. If you really want anti air use the 80 pts you will save not getting the flakk missles and buy a ADL and get an icaruis or quad

You will be happy to learn that Flakk is only 10 points. It is a part of EML, which is not a worthless weapon. It is versatile and effective, even if it is costly.

EML are 15 pts basic and 10 pts for flakk missles. Therefore 25pts for one. Im not arguing they arent useful, if it didnt cost 25 pts i would run it but seeing how its so expensive i wouldnt invest anything into them. Ive blown up plently of flyer w/ my BL SL combo and just prey the SL hits.

As for if you buy them for every model you actually are spending 150pts for 6 EML when normally w/ BL SL its only 30pts.

@ninjafiredragon: SL BL does great when outflanking (like i said i do(and alot of other players)) at rear armour your SL can gl/pen vehicles and make your BL TL. On the flip side if you only run BL and outflank your brightlances arent twinlinked so on average if you shoot 6 BL non TL only 4 will hit, and if you shoot 3 that are TL all should hit. So yes you are getting one extra str8 shot on average but w/ the scatter laser shots you get theres a higher chance you can wreak the vehicle.

Now if you dont plan on outflanking your warwalkers and you start them on the field, hell yeah make them more specific to what you want them to do. 6 BL guide is great same for SL but i find tailoring lists to someone you play isnt good sportsmanship thats why i take a ballanced list.(as balanced as eldar can be lol)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sorry Toocool61 we went a bit off topic. id suggest this going with the flavor of your list

1 far seers 100

Warlock x 3 Jetbike x 2 SingingSpears x 2(Jetbike Warlocks) 135

Avatar 190

2x3 jet bikes Shuriken Cannon x 2 122

2x5 dire avengers 400
-wave serpent
-holofields
- scatter laser

Heavy
1wraith knight 240

Vaul Support Battery x 3 90

Warwalkers x 3 SLx3 BLx3(one each) 210
1497pts

This way you can try for Renew on your warlocks to replenish the wraithknight and avatars wounds. Once you outflank your warwalkers the enemy will focus fire on them for a turn(hopefully). Then if you can roll a 4 for your Avatars warlord trait you are set lol

 Nettik189 wrote:

@ninjafiredragon: SL BL does great when outflanking (like i said i do(and alot of other players)) at rear armour your SL can gl/pen vehicles and make your BL TL. On the flip side if you only run BL and outflank your brightlances arent twinlinked so on average if you shoot 6 BL non TL only 4 will hit, and if you shoot 3 that are TL all should hit. So yes you are getting one extra str8 shot on average but w/ the scatter laser shots you get theres a higher chance you can wreak the vehicle.

Now if you dont plan on outflanking your warwalkers and you start them on the field, hell yeah make them more specific to what you want them to do. 6 BL guide is great same for SL but i find tailoring lists to someone you play isnt good sportsmanship thats why i take a ballanced list.(as balanced as eldar can be lol)

I see what your saying. I always start my war walkers on the board though, so they have the extra turn or 2 of shooting, and then guide them, getting me 6 bright lance shots.
(I apologize i might have gone off on that war walker load out on a couple of other threads sorry )