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A question for people that have more experiance using D-weapons, The scenario: I fire a D weapon large Blast at a Unit of 10 Space marines. And cover 6 of them. The blast template scatter and now only 5 are coverd by the template.
So now I roll 5 dice on the D weapon chart, and get 1,1,3,3,6 The 1's are disgarded against marines. And now I have to roll 2x D3+1's and a D6+6. I get a total of 15 wounds as such from that blast. Now do I distribute those 15 wound on only 3 Marines. As the dice roll to see what sort of shot it was, disgarded 2 of those 5 shots. Or do those 15 wounds go into a Wound pool and distribute over the entire unit?

Normal Blast templates would only effect those that are under the template itself, as they would only ever cause 1 wound against the ones that are there. However with a D template the ammount of wounds caused for each model under the template is multiplied by a Large amount. So any help would be gratefull thanks.

The guys that are under the blast are not only dead, they are pulped. The guys not under the blast only have to change their shorts.

lol, ok so no putting those extra wounds into a wound pool then. Thanks.

Normal blasts are definitely not restricted to the models under the template for a start. For instance I get a hit on 4 Orks with a TFC and then proceed to roll a hit with each of the 3 following blast and decide the best way to get maximum huts is to keep the blast over the original 4 Orks. That's 16 hits which let's say cause 12 Unsaved wounds those are most certainly not restricted to the 4 boy under the template.

As most things with D weapons have multiple templated shots restricting the damage to the models under the template does not make sense.

The RaW is that the wounds would indeed go into the wound pool and kill the whole squad looking at Escalation. I see nothing in there to suggest otherwise. Though for Sanities sake I would advise you apply the fantasy restriction that a multi wound hit can't do more wounds than the model who was hit by it has. So in your example only 3 marines would die rather than the entire unit. D weapons are super powered enough they don't need this kind of help.

Could you cite that? I mean the part where it specifically says that models not covered by templates are also killed.

 EVIL INC wrote:
Could you cite that? I mean the part where it specifically says that models not covered by templates are also killed.

Page 15 BrB. Escalation page 17.

So up until rolling to wound normal shooting rules apply. Then instead of rolling to wound we follow the D Weapons rules to generate wounds. We're then back to page 15 for allocation of those wounds (as we have no other rules) which means those 15 wounds go into the wound pool and are allocated starting with the nearest model to the titan. Heck if he only did 3 wounds with that large blast the wounds wouldn't be limited to the guys under the blast they would be allocated to the nearest model which could mean 3 guys not under the template die.

Do you have a restriction or rule stopping those wounds going into the wound pool or restricting damage to the guys under the template?

 EVIL INC wrote:
Could you cite that? I mean the part where it specifically says that models not covered by templates are also killed.

Given that there is no rule restricting marker/template casualties to coming from under the marker/template in the first place...

In that case, I stand corrected. My apologies to the OP..

This is why multiple blasts should be resolved separately. It's silly to think the preceding blast wouldn't thin the herd.

RAW - I believe the wounds just go to a mass pool and are distributed to the unit, likely causing far more casualties than what was actually hit under the blast.

How I play it when my opponent is open to it - treat it like the doubling of wounds for scarabs and the multiple wounds rule in fantasy. In other words, the multiple wounds are only dealt to the one model and if it does more wounds than the model has, excess wounds are discarded. It's just more realistic that way, and it tones down D weapons a little bit.

(So basically what Fling said )

Also thinking about this a little more. Do the wounds caused by D weapons cause instant death. For instance a group of nurglings get hit. And they are classed as 4 wounds per base. Under instant death rules 1 wound against them would kill the base, for normal circumstances like doubling toughness. But with D weapons you dont get a STR value just an additional amount of wounds. there is no STR value for those wounds. other than they cannot be saved by anytype of saving throw.

No instant death, instead you determine a random number of wounds done per D weapon hit

 CrownAxe wrote:
No instant death, instead you determine a random number of wounds done per D weapon hit

Wait they don't? That's interesting. SD used to be S10 with the destroyer special rule, so they used to cause ID on anything that was not T6+.

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
No instant death, instead you determine a random number of wounds done per D weapon hit

Wait they don't? That's interesting. SD used to be S10 with the destroyer special rule, so they used to cause ID on anything that was not T6+.

No, D weapons caused ID. They also allowed invuln saves.

But then the new rules came out.

That outta make necron players VERY happy.
i see a LOT more scarabs getting used.

 EVIL INC wrote:
That outta make necron players VERY happy.
i see a LOT more scarabs getting used.

well a d weapon hit usually does d3+1 wounds so most of the time the scarab is dead anway

Rolling a 3 +1 for a total of four wounds would only kill a single base of them out of the whole squad. where as before, that would be four dead bases, without insta kill, its only one base and one wound on another.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
No instant death, instead you determine a random number of wounds done per D weapon hit

Wait they don't? That's interesting. SD used to be S10 with the destroyer special rule, so they used to cause ID on anything that was not T6+.

No, D weapons caused ID. They also allowed invuln saves.

But then the new rules came out.

Really? I have to go get my old book. It's around somewhere.

 EVIL INC wrote:
Rolling a 3 +1 for a total of four wounds would only kill a single base of them out of the whole squad. where as before, that would be four dead bases, without insta kill, its only one base and one wound on another.

your roll the d3+1 for each base hit. So you need to roll a 1 on the d3 for a scarab to survive

4 scarabs hit, each scarab gets d3+1 wounds (unless they rolled a 6, then its d6+6 wounds so its definitely dead)

Ahh, I thought it was d3+1, didnt know it was d3+1 per base hit..

 EVIL INC wrote:
Ahh, I thought it was d3+1, didnt know it was d3+1 per base hit..

It would make them less OP...

The Destroyer Weapon table says that the 2-5 and 6 results are that "model suffers X wounds" so you only need to roll the number of wounds inflicted if the model hit has multiple wounds, otherwise on a 2+ it's paste.

 CrashCanuck wrote:
The Destroyer Weapon table says that the 2-5 and 6 results are that "model suffers X wounds" so you only need to roll the number of wounds inflicted if the model hit has multiple wounds, otherwise on a 2+ it's paste.

Exactly. If the blast hit 5 single-wound models and you roll 1,1,3,3,6, then 3 models are dead.

 Mulletdude wrote:

 CrashCanuck wrote:
The Destroyer Weapon table says that the 2-5 and 6 results are that "model suffers X wounds" so you only need to roll the number of wounds inflicted if the model hit has multiple wounds, otherwise on a 2+ it's paste.

Exactly. If the blast hit 5 single-wound models and you roll 1,1,3,3,6, then 3 models are dead.

Whilst that is how they should work that is not supported by the RaW at all. Because the model suffers x wounds does not mean that model is dead casualty removal is part of wound allocation so the wounds HAVE to go into the wound pool and the nearest model has to take those wounds until it is dead and so on.

It does say the model suffers the wounds, so it would break then since you can't satisfy that rule and putting them in the wound pool at the same time.

It does say the model suffers the wounds, so it would break then since you can't satisfy that rule and putting them in the wound pool at the same time.

The model did suffer the wounds, it just didn't suffer the unsaved wounds.

Everyone is missing something important here: destroyer weapons do NOT generate wounds normally.

Non-vehicle - Seriously Wounded: The model loses D3+1 Wounds.

Non-vehicle - Deathblow: The model loses D6+6 Wounds.

Note the key difference from normal weapons: the model loses wounds. The hit doesn't generate normal wounds that go into the wound pool, you just remove a given number of wounds from the number on the model's profile. Like markerlights destroyer weapons determine how many hits they get, and then inflict a non-wound effect based on those hits instead of rolling to wound and proceeding normally with the rest of the shooting sequence. The fact that destroyer weapons often produce dead models is pure coincidence.

In order to support the unit taking the wounds you would have to show where the wounds are dealt to the unit. The text of D weapons is that the model takes the wounds. You would need to show permission to remove them from the model and put them on the unit before you could put them in the wound pool. By definition all the wounds dealt by D weapons are unsaved wounds. D weapons would have to have wording nearly identical to the death ray stating that the unit takes a number of hits...... it specifically says that the wounds are done to the model. This is the same as swarms taking additional blast wounds, they are done on a model not moved into the wound pool to be reallocated.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ninja'd with a move exact phrasing.... *bow*

Do D-weapons even use the normal wound pool + allocation anyways? Since they roll on a completely separate table.

The unit takes the hits not the models blast weapon RaW.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Shandara wrote:
Do D-weapons even use the normal wound pool + allocation anyways? Since they roll on a completely separate table.

Only instead of rolling to wound. Everything else is normal shooting rules.