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No sorry and apparently whether or not you can look out sir with focus fire is up for debate.

But either way

What I was saying is that Focus fire doesn't care if you are going to actually use the cover save or not. So even though Space marines are going to be using are going to use their 3+ armor save and not their cover save against bolters you can still focus fire and allocate the wounds on the models that have the specified number or worse.

For example, you put a white scars chapter master in a unit of black knights they have a 4+ jink and he has a 3+ you focus fire on the 4+ and none of your shots can be allocated against the chapter master (so you can avoid his 2+ save and focus on killing those black knights). Even if none of your shots would force a cover save due to the best armor save rule. This part is not up for debate.

Kisada II wrote:
No sorry and apparently whether or not you can look out sir with focus fire is up for debate.

But either way

What I was saying is that Focus fire doesn't care if you are going to actually use the cover save or not. So even though Space marines are going to be using are going to use their 3+ armor save and not their cover save against bolters you can still focus fire and allocate the wounds on the models that have the specified number or worse.

For example, you put a white scars chapter master in a unit of black knights they have a 4+ jink and he has a 3+ you focus fire on the 4+ and none of your shots can be allocated against the chapter master (so you can avoid his 2+ save and focus on killing those black knights). Even if none of your shots would force a cover save due to the best armor save rule. This part is not up for debate.

That is the thing though, it has not been up for debate in any game or tournament I have attended. I have never heard someone try and interpret the rule as you are. You are also not understanding what is meant by "permissive rule-set." Nothing states that focus fire denies LOS, therefore LOS is permitted. Yes focus fire forces you to allocate wounds at a specific cover save, but as you even said LOS is a reallocation. Nothing is keeping them from being reallocated. If something denies LOS it would be written out eg. the vindicare assassin clarification on page 5 of the GK FAQ. This is the only precedent for denying LOS so your argument is very weak otherwise.

This is a particularly difficult question to answer. A lot does depend on terrain, which is random.

I have 20 black knights, luckily they're skilled riders, so are pretty survivable, I keep my speeders (typhoons, of course!) back of the board, for range, and I outflank my 2 multi melta attack bikes. 110 points in reserve is nothing really, and they could come on and pop something big.

A Libby on a bike with a power field generator! Now that's an awesome dude, I put him in with a command squad with an apothecary, a banner of dev and then sit the dark shroud just behind...the unit and the shroud benifits from the Libby's 4+ if it's a cover ignoring weapon, if it isn't then the shroud improves the units cover.

It's not full proof, but it helps a bit! I think what's been said before is true though, alpha strike! It seems to work best for me. It's all about the first turn. If he gets it, hide, and then just try to do as much damage as possible! Ravenwing grenade launchers help here!

It has been mentioned quite a bit in this thread already, but for your predicament I feel it's worth restating: Libby with the confer able 4+ invul. Put him in a biker command squad with 3 SS and an apothecary. Even your poor rolling is going to struggle to fail all those saves. Also, look into square edged dice--they roll averages more accurately. Rounded edge, pipped dice come up 1 and 2 quite a bit more often. Q-Workshop have some pretty cool square edged dice; I haven't used them but am planning a custom order.

POKEYtheBIG wrote:
It has been mentioned quite a bit in this thread already, but for your predicament I feel it's worth restating: Libby with the confer able 4+ invul. Put him in a biker command squad with 3 SS and an apothecary. Even your poor rolling is going to struggle to fail all those saves. Also, look into square edged dice--they roll averages more accurately. Rounded edge, pipped dice come up 1 and 2 quite a bit more often. Q-Workshop have some pretty cool square edged dice; I haven't used them but am planning a custom order.

Is this genuine?

 Khaine's Wrath wrote:

POKEYtheBIG wrote:
It has been mentioned quite a bit in this thread already, but for your predicament I feel it's worth restating: Libby with the confer able 4+ invul. Put him in a biker command squad with 3 SS and an apothecary. Even your poor rolling is going to struggle to fail all those saves. Also, look into square edged dice--they roll averages more accurately. Rounded edge, pipped dice come up 1 and 2 quite a bit more often. Q-Workshop have some pretty cool square edged dice; I haven't used them but am planning a custom order.

Is this genuine?

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?65531-Do-you-roll-a-lot-of-1s-A-40k-must-read

I use square sided with pips, but they still roll more accurately than GW.

Relatively interesting...

POKEYtheBIG wrote:

Kisada II wrote:
No sorry and apparently whether or not you can look out sir with focus fire is up for debate.

But either way

What I was saying is that Focus fire doesn't care if you are going to actually use the cover save or not. So even though Space marines are going to be using are going to use their 3+ armor save and not their cover save against bolters you can still focus fire and allocate the wounds on the models that have the specified number or worse.

For example, you put a white scars chapter master in a unit of black knights they have a 4+ jink and he has a 3+ you focus fire on the 4+ and none of your shots can be allocated against the chapter master (so you can avoid his 2+ save and focus on killing those black knights). Even if none of your shots would force a cover save due to the best armor save rule. This part is not up for debate.

That is the thing though, it has not been up for debate in any game or tournament I have attended. I have never heard someone try and interpret the rule as you are. You are also not understanding what is meant by "permissive rule-set." Nothing states that focus fire denies LOS, therefore LOS is permitted. Yes focus fire forces you to allocate wounds at a specific cover save, but as you even said LOS is a reallocation. Nothing is keeping them from being reallocated. If something denies LOS it would be written out eg. the vindicare assassin clarification on page 5 of the GK FAQ. This is the only precedent for denying LOS so your argument is very weak otherwise.

Actually you should read that FAQ as it 100% confirms that Look out sir's reallocation is still wound allocation, and that is the exact same scenario you have one rule forcing wound allocation one way and look out sir trying to get around it and the FAQ says no, it's not even an errata or an amendment and it completely invalidates your argument that look out sir isn't allocation.
But it doesn't matter from a tactics perspective mixed jink saves leaves you open to focus fire.
EDIT: Sorry this part was rude and un-called for, so I removed it from my post.

I was getting sick of failing reanimate on protocols. Res Orbs were a waste of points in my cron lists haha.

Kisada II wrote:

POKEYtheBIG wrote:

Kisada II wrote:
No sorry and apparently whether or not you can look out sir with focus fire is up for debate.

But either way

What I was saying is that Focus fire doesn't care if you are going to actually use the cover save or not. So even though Space marines are going to be using are going to use their 3+ armor save and not their cover save against bolters you can still focus fire and allocate the wounds on the models that have the specified number or worse.

For example, you put a white scars chapter master in a unit of black knights they have a 4+ jink and he has a 3+ you focus fire on the 4+ and none of your shots can be allocated against the chapter master (so you can avoid his 2+ save and focus on killing those black knights). Even if none of your shots would force a cover save due to the best armor save rule. This part is not up for debate.

That is the thing though, it has not been up for debate in any game or tournament I have attended. I have never heard someone try and interpret the rule as you are. You are also not understanding what is meant by "permissive rule-set." Nothing states that focus fire denies LOS, therefore LOS is permitted. Yes focus fire forces you to allocate wounds at a specific cover save, but as you even said LOS is a reallocation. Nothing is keeping them from being reallocated. If something denies LOS it would be written out eg. the vindicare assassin clarification on page 5 of the GK FAQ. This is the only precedent for denying LOS so your argument is very weak otherwise.

Actually you should read that FAQ as it 100% confirms that Look out sir's reallocation is still wound allocation, and that is the exact same scenario you have one rule forcing wound allocation one way and look out sir trying to get around it and the FAQ says no, it's not even an errata or an amendment and it completely invalidates your argument that look out sir isn't allocation.
But it doesn't matter from a tactics perspective mixed jink saves leaves you open to focus fire.
EDIT: Sorry this part was rude and un-called for, so I removed it from my post.

Unless it explicably states you do not get to LOS--as it does with the Vindicare--you get it. You are seriously the only person I've ever heard of to not get this. No one you play will ever agree with you nor will anyone here. Bring it up YMTC and see if anyone agrees with you. I would be shocked if a single person does.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@Kisada II
Nowhere, not in the BRB or FAQ is LOS ever called an allocation, also Focus Fire is not even mentioned in the FAQ. The rule states that "When a Wound is allocated to one of your characters [make your LOS roll] and resolve the Wound against [another model] instead." This is why I called it a reallocation, not because that is how it is stated, but because that is what you are doing: you are reallocating said Wound to another model to be "resolved.". So yes, your Focus Fire forces the allocation of Wounds on the lower cover save model and then triggers LOS, should that player desire. It is order of operation: Wound is allocated, then LOS. In the future, do not state things are "100% proven" or reference things, that are easily looked up, incorrectly as there are new players on these forums who would read your post and take it at your word.