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 kronk wrote:
EVERY FW order I made took exactly 1 week to deliver.

here in NZ it takes around 2-6 weeks just to be reay before delivery. Even if i pay for express shipping.

Well that sucks!

 Psienesis wrote:
There's also the fact that you are giving people who are obviously thieves your credit card information, who live in a country where it is notoriously hard to recover any stolen funds from.

But, hey, it's your money.

To be fair, I think I know what site the OP is looking at, and they take payment via Paypal or Western Union. Otherwise, I would never have contemplated them.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 kronk wrote:
EVERY FW order I made took exactly 1 week to deliver.

here in NZ it takes around 2-6 weeks just to be reay before delivery. Even if i pay for express shipping.

Here in Aus it only normally takes a week. Also, not that I don't believe you, but I am sure FW's are of a much highly quality detail wise, and I find it really hard to believe that the recasts are easier to assemble. That just doesn't make sense to me (not that assmbling forgeworld is a hard task that needs to be easier anyway.) It being alot cheaper is the one thing that makes sense, but again, it is cheaper for a reason.

 Rippy wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 kronk wrote:
EVERY FW order I made took exactly 1 week to deliver.

here in NZ it takes around 2-6 weeks just to be reay before delivery. Even if i pay for express shipping.

Here in Aus it only normally takes a week. Also, not that I don't believe you, but I am sure FW's are of a much highly quality detail wise, and I find it really hard to believe that the recasts are easier to assemble. That just doesn't make sense to me (not that assmbling forgeworld is a hard task that needs to be easier anyway.) It being alot cheaper is the one thing that makes sense, but again, it is cheaper for a reason.

6 months ago i had the same opinion. Then my friends started getting recasts while i was paying full price. My models looked no different to theirs. But mine came with tonnes of flashing, huge chunks and a long shipping time. (you know how you have to wait for it to be order shipped after confirmed? yea thats what takes forever for me). To top it off recasters sell things that are no longer made. Its the kind of thing you have to try before you believe it or see for your self. I dont sell them nor do i gain anything so i have no reason to try sell them to you.
But they dont come covered in a lubricant so washing them for ages isnt an issue, they dont come all bent and out of shape and it comes in secure sealed packaging so no broken heavy stubbers for me any more. But its up to you at the end of the day just dont look at Chinese store casters.

At the end of the day its up to you but if you use the right sellers you will probably never buy from GW again.

The Chinese pro painted models for $150-$250 i see on ebay are most likely ridiculously high priced GW knock off's?

Johnnytorrance wrote:
The Chinese pro painted models for $150-$250 i see on ebay are most likely ridiculously high priced GW knock off's?

I know the ones, im not sure about them as Ebay isnt used too much in NZ.

 kronk wrote:
Forge World has lots of DKoK kits!

For sale!

Right now!

I know and they look delightful. Just trying to game on a budget.

I'll go writhe in a pile of my first world problems until this feeling goes away.

I see a very large amount of resin models, both genuine FW and recast.

Regarding the genuine FW stuff, I do the bulk ordering (i.e. lets get free shipping) for my group on a regular basis (my credit card does not take a hit for foreign transactions, and I like the bonus points).

Also, I do a lot of work with resin and casting as one of my associates is into professional prop fabrication and we also do our own bases and other custom (non 40k) models.

A few things (this is real FW, ordered directly from FW).
* if you get free shipping, FW orders usually do arrive in about a week. This is not a fluke, I regularly get orders this fast.
* if you do not get free shipping they on average can take longer.
* It is not uncommon for FW models to be warped, or have signifigant mold lines where they mold shifted during casting (it was moved or set poorly during the casting process).
* many of their older molds need to be replaced as they have not aged well (the barracuda mold is in bad shape).
* in the last 28 monthe, they have got much better regarding missing parts.
* they do not always pack large models well - there have been a lot with minor damage from transit.
* the majority of time their resin is good quality.

Again, I see a LOT of fw models, and as I order them for many people and I inspect all the models.

Regarding recaster models, as I do a lot of resin work, and am know for my conversions (and pinning etc.) a lot of friends show me their models, or ask for help with them.
Also a previous roommate of mine used to order recasts from russia, and I have personally seen and inspected several test models from various casters in China.

* The shipping is usually much slower.
* The Russian recasters do ok on packaging.
* Most of the Chinese recasters package their models very well (inspected a Chinese hierophant last week).
* Most of the Russian recasts I have seen use good quality resin.
* Some of the Chinese recasts I have seen use good quality resin, some use more brittle quality resin.
* I have seen a few missing parts from re-casters, but its rare - some will offer refunds.
* Detail wise most of the Russian recasts I have personally seen are good to very good.
* Detail wise most of the Chinese recasts I have personally seen are very good to excellent.

Now, here is the shocking one...
Overall, I can say the quality control on casting form the Chinese casters has met or exceeded the quality control from Forgeworld.

How can this be? Some people say "thats not possible for a recast to be better".

I am not talking about the quality of the detail in the resin, for this is true - the cast cannot be 100% as good as the original, but I am not talking about the quality of the detail.
I am talking about the quality of the casting overall - less warped parts, less mold lines etc. Again, I have experience in casting myself, and in professional parts fabrication so I know what to look for, or rather, I can usually tell what went wrong with a cast that is not really good.

Overall, I would still recommend forgeworld over re-casters - I feel the customer service is better and its a good idea to support the company making new designs.

Now, I still won't buy some models from them (or recasters for that matter) as I feel they are just too expensive for what you get, and I would rather give consumer feedback with a lack of sales dollars.
(its not that I can't afford them, its that I don't think they are worth the price they charge - now, the second I can get an orca as a plastic kit for about $100...I will have one).

davethepak wrote:
I see a very large amount of resin models, both genuine FW and recast.

Regarding the genuine FW stuff, I do the bulk ordering (i.e. lets get free shipping) for my group on a regular basis (my credit card does not take a hit for foreign transactions, and I like the bonus points).

Also, I do a lot of work with resin and casting as one of my associates is into professional prop fabrication and we also do our own bases and other custom (non 40k) models.

A few things (this is real FW, ordered directly from FW).
* if you get free shipping, FW orders usually do arrive in about a week. This is not a fluke, I regularly get orders this fast.
* if you do not get free shipping they on average can take longer.
* It is not uncommon for FW models to be warped, or have signifigant mold lines where they mold shifted during casting (it was moved or set poorly during the casting process).
* many of their older molds need to be replaced as they have not aged well (the barracuda mold is in bad shape).
* in the last 28 monthe, they have got much better regarding missing parts.
* they do not always pack large models well - there have been a lot with minor damage from transit.
* the majority of time their resin is good quality.

Again, I see a LOT of fw models, and as I order them for many people and I inspect all the models.

Regarding recaster models, as I do a lot of resin work, and am know for my conversions (and pinning etc.) a lot of friends show me their models, or ask for help with them.
Also a previous roommate of mine used to order recasts from russia, and I have personally seen and inspected several test models from various casters in China.

* The shipping is usually much slower.
* The Russian recasters do ok on packaging.
* Most of the Chinese recasters package their models very well (inspected a Chinese hierophant last week).
* Most of the Russian recasts I have seen use good quality resin.
* Some of the Chinese recasts I have seen use good quality resin, some use more brittle quality resin.
* I have seen a few missing parts from re-casters, but its rare - some will offer refunds.
* Detail wise most of the Russian recasts I have personally seen are good to very good.
* Detail wise most of the Chinese recasts I have personally seen are very good to excellent.

Now, here is the shocking one...
Overall, I can say the quality control on casting form the Chinese casters has met or exceeded the quality control from Forgeworld.

How can this be? Some people say "thats not possible for a recast to be better".

I am not talking about the quality of the detail in the resin, for this is true - the cast cannot be 100% as good as the original, but I am not talking about the quality of the detail.
I am talking about the quality of the casting overall - less warped parts, less mold lines etc. Again, I have experience in casting myself, and in professional parts fabrication so I know what to look for, or rather, I can usually tell what went wrong with a cast that is not really good.

Overall, I would still recommend forgeworld over re-casters - I feel the customer service is better and its a good idea to support the company making new designs.

Now, I still won't buy some models from them (or recasters for that matter) as I feel they are just too expensive for what you get, and I would rather give consumer feedback with a lack of sales dollars.
(its not that I can't afford them, its that I don't think they are worth the price they charge - now, the second I can get an orca as a plastic kit for about $100...I will have one).

I second this! FW comes with too much flashing in my experience, my DE tantalus took forever to clean, Tau XV-9's have some bad mold line battle damages, among other models..
The Hydras I got from China recast are excellent, the gun barrels are straight as if made from plastic; the mounted Knarloc was missing a snippet of its tail, required some green stuff work; the hood part from my Centaur was too small due to recast, so I used the bar rail instead; My Ork bikers require some minor filing to fit well..
The Ogryn berserker I got from Russia were missing some drug vile parts, I had to green stuff or fill it up, I did not buy from that recaster again; I just ordered 2 unique models from another Russia recaster for a project, hope they are good quality.

I would suggest those that are looking into buying an recast, to buy from a source that's 20-25% lower than FW retail, any more than that the source might not be any good, buy a sample model and go from there.

Chinaman saving the world from the evil british GW one recast at a time .

[MOD EDIT - Dakka Dakka in no way endorses or condones such things. - Alpharius]

 Swastakowey wrote:

 kronk wrote:
EVERY FW order I made took exactly 1 week to deliver.

here in NZ it takes around 2-6 weeks just to be reay before delivery. Even if i pay for express shipping.

How strange.

So, as well as pimping knock-offs, by people who are leeching on other's work, you reckon ForgeWorld are picking out foreign orders and posting them later, for you personally?

Last order we made, was posted within 48 hours of the order. I'll look out the paperwork.

Look out yours - the order, and the update from FW. Post it. I'll do the same. Let's compare and contrast.

.

I havent purchased from forge world in a long time but ill take a look.

I can see my orders but it doesnt have dates

I havent worked out how to put images up though. My shadow spectres took forever so ill put the order screen picture of that up. Its only got the order date, so i got nothing to prove how long it took. Same with all my other orders.

 Psienesis wrote:
There's also the fact that you are giving people who are obviously thieves your credit card information, who live in a country where it is notoriously hard to recover any stolen funds from.

But, hey, it's your money.

How is that any different than paying with a credit card at Target (us retailer who lost *at least* 70 million credit card details) or any of the others that lost millions of peoples information last year alone?

Not that I'm saying go buy a recast, to me that's just immoral. I'm just pointing out that the likelihood of having your info stolen is not based on the country you are buying from.

---------

I seriously don't understand FW. The models look fantastic.. until it shows up on your doorstep. It just seems like whoever is doing the casting simply doesn't want to take the time to do it right; in which case why don't they fix their production and QC issues?

I bought a large number of models from Spartan Games last month (about 100). All resin, almost zero mold lines, straight, great details, well packaged (bubble wrap) and a far sight cheaper than anything FW produces. I look at these two companies side by side and I just can't figure out why anyone would buy a *second* large FW model. The first one I understand, but once bitten why do it again? Now, I have no experience with FW's smaller stuff like characters so I won't comment there. But seriously how hard is it to make sure the mold is straight when the resin is being injected? Or how hard is it to give the resin time to cure or whatever it needs to do before pulling it out of the mold? Also, how hard is it to create a new mold when the old ones are obviously failing?

The amount of shaping work I had to do in order to beat my one large FW model into a reasonable shape was astounding. For awhile I couldn't decide if I wanted to simply throw it in the trash or mail it back to them with a note demanding a refund. In the end I fixed all the warped pieces, filled in large areas with bubbles on the inside that caused outer panels to cave in, reshaped parts that I have no idea how they could have ever fit together and custom built my own replacement parts for a few areas that were simply not salvageable. It was a serious challenge; but I'm not likely to do it ever again.

I understand that they are smaller than GW. Fine - everyone is. But the premium they charge is simply NOT worth it. So, like davethepac, I vote by not sending anymore of my dollars to them for models. And, I refuse to use recasters even if their production quality is higher than the original on moral grounds.

All of that said: their books are simply amazing. High quality, obviously lots of thought put into them but that's not what we're talking about.

Because Target's incident (which, by the way, I don't shop at) is a one-time thing. How many times prior to now has Target had a loss like this?

Now, go trawl the player-made (not official) forums for any MMO you care to name. Go look into people buying/selling gold or power-leveling from Chinese farmers and how many of them lose everything off the character, get their gold but suddenly have charges for stuff they didn't buy on their cards, or don't get their gold *and* end up paying for someone's high-priced hooker.

 Psienesis wrote:
Because Target's incident (which, by the way, I don't shop at) is a one-time thing. How many times prior to now has Target had a loss like this?

Now, go trawl the player-made (not official) forums for any MMO you care to name. Go look into people buying/selling gold or power-leveling from Chinese farmers and how many of them lose everything off the character, get their gold but suddenly have charges for stuff they didn't buy on their cards, or don't get their gold *and* end up paying for someone's high-priced hooker.

Easy work around?

Use an agent and pay with PayPal. No greater risk than pretty much every other online transaction people make every day without blinking.

My sister got me a load of stuff off a Chinese website for Christmas it's all recasts and there fine, she didn't know the difference when buying them however.

As with eBay always be wary of knock offs though

When I grew up it was legal to copy games in Norway.

The unethical Chinese discussion mounts down that the people who makes the laws decide what is legal and illegal. I think that cheap copies is legal in china?

Instead of thinking of this in terms of law it could make sense to think of this in term of PR and marketing. People are more loyal to things they like. GW should spend money on PR people as well as lawyers, a good PR consultant might make more money for your company then a good lawyer. GW has unfortunately never done this.

China has not, traditionally, had much enforcement of international IP laws. That may begin to change as China, as a nation, starts entering foreign trade markets more significantly.

Recently got a chinese R'varna battlesuit as a birthday present. Stunning cast. Forgeworld could, and should, cry themselves to sleep over how atrocious their own casting and QC is compared to some random Chinese guy copying their models in a garage somewhere.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The lower the price, the lower the quality.
That is usually how things work.

Incorrect, the quality is actually better than the original.
However its cheaper because the prices isn't over inflated nor does the price include upcost of actual company.
What it does include is the materials used, like $2 of resin and mold, slave wages for the staff, rest is pure profit.

Yeah, I have to agree, I ordered some Tau Battlesuits, purely on a whim and as a test and they are quite brittle, but still, pretty good...I've bought all of my armies so far of GW and retail in Aussie stores too, and yet the dodgy recaster offered me a voucher after first purchase for the same value to promote them. I'm not going to do that, because I agree that it is illegal and pretty dodgy but GW don't do much to make themselves sympathetic.

It is getting to the point now that the price of the recasts (normal GW not FW) are comparable with what you can get the genuine kits for from American resellers for.. including shipping! I'd rather cough up a couple of more bucks for the genuine article.

FW recasts are still a little cheaper, but not sure for how long. Maybe they (recasters) can get away with it if their Quality Control is better and they produce a comparable if not superior (?) product?

 Kr00gZ wrote:
It is getting to the point now that the price of the recasts (normal GW not FW) are comparable with what you can get the genuine kits for from American resellers for.. including shipping! I'd rather cough up a couple of more bucks for the genuine article.

FW recasts are still a little cheaper, but not sure for how long. Maybe they (recasters) can get away with it if their Quality Control is better and they produce a comparable if not superior (?) product?

I don't know about that.

I just got 2 Storm Talons for less than the cost of 1 from GW, delivered. ($47 canadian for 2 VS $54 from games workshop). I haven't assembled them yet, but the cast quality is as good as anything I've gotten from Forge World, but working with resin compared to plastic is....difficult.

I didn't even order from the cheapest recaster I know of.

 Carnage43 wrote:

 Kr00gZ wrote:
It is getting to the point now that the price of the recasts (normal GW not FW) are comparable with what you can get the genuine kits for from American resellers for.. including shipping! I'd rather cough up a couple of more bucks for the genuine article.

FW recasts are still a little cheaper, but not sure for how long. Maybe they (recasters) can get away with it if their Quality Control is better and they produce a comparable if not superior (?) product?

I don't know about that.

I just got 2 Storm Talons for less than the cost of 1 from GW, delivered. ($47 canadian for 2 VS $54 from games workshop). I haven't assembled them yet, but the cast quality is as good as anything I've gotten from Forge World, but working with resin compared to plastic is....difficult.

I didn't even order from the cheapest recaster I know of.

I must be shopping in the wrong places....

My local club is non profit and gets to sell official GW products (all the boxes and dexes but no blisters), at either 30% or 33.3% reduction.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Cant remember if it was 30% or a third off.

Yea I got a FW abadden for £9. Its a recast but is amazing quality.

I'm going to start recasting my own stuff to be fair, I want some mk1 rhinos as I love the sports Car look, this will only be for personal use however.

 Formosa wrote:
this will only be for personal use however.

It is still illegal.