Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So since the new codex out and in people's hands, how about we start writing down some tactics to use with the new codex?

I am starting a new escalation league at the end of this month and I am eager to start list building. First month I get to use one Troop choice for 250 points. Next month is another troop (250 points), and then a HQ the month after (250 points). My league will keep going in this direction until we have 1500-2000 points with each month adding another FOC (Should have Lord of War in the Last Month).

Anyways what would be a good choice for a troop choice for me this month? I am a little worried about not having a synapse creature in the form of a HQ for the first few months (can always get a Tervigon Month 2). Is there any better choices? Does the Broodlord provide synapse? (getting the codex tomorrow so no worries if I need to wait on that answer).

I am assuming 250 points devoted to gants would be a bad idea due to lack of synapse correct?

Now moving on past my own personal tactical needs, what do you all think about some of the new tactics proposed in the News and Rumor nid thread?

Genestealers



Venomthropes



Tervigon and Going to Ground Units



Fortifications and Nids



Broodlord and Horror



*BTW thanks to barnowl, jifel, tetrisphreak, and SHUPPET for tactics!

^^^^ ohhhh thats nasty

Uh 20 genestealers hasn't been viable for years and years.. It just doesn't do anything, who cares about cover saves when the unit doesn't get to the target.. also you're giving up catalyst and other better powers to use dominion.

It's an okay trick, but at its core its still just a gimmick due to relying on psychic powers and cover saves. One failed check and your entire battle plan is over with.

I wouldn't base any strategy around genestealers

The Get Down/Get Up synapse trick is great - i've been using it with genestealers and lictors for awhile now. It needs a synapse delivery system, either a flying tyrant, some shrikes, or dominion/swarmlord/norn crown to be effective.


I'm taking Warriors in the first month - the restriction of our league preventing Vehicles make them very worthwhile in the format. Month 1 will probably be 2 lash whip bonesword warriors, 2 scything talon deathspitter warriors, and one venom cannon warrior. all with adrenal glands for fleet/FC and toxin sacs for poison.

Here's another new-dex tactic i've seen that is nice for genestealers with a broodlord: The horror is a pinning check at -2 Leadership. Pinned units can only fire snap-shots and if you assault them in terrain, you don't lose initiative. For turns when the genestealers are too far away to assault you can pin an important scout/guardian type unit, maybe one that's operating a quad gun (right before the crone arrives). When you're about to close in for a charge you can pin a unit, and assault them at full initiative. If you fail your charge, guess what? They're pinned! they're only going to snap fire in return and cannot move away so you'll be able to catch them in the next turn. The Horror is going to be a nice debuff power, except vs horde orks, daemons, and other nids i think.

only problem with that is that its a little less than a 50/50% chance of them being pinned generally. So, they might not be pinned.

Yeah, they might not be. But, we take what we're given.

Why not just ditch genestealers instead of "taking whats given". They're so terrible with their low armor saves, relatively weak CC ability (compared to those with actual re-rolls to hit and wound or more attacks), and no delivery system.

What if the enemy has servo skulls? They're totally useless then as opposed to just terrible..

Seems to me the best units will be Mawlocs for reserve shennigans, Carnifex due to price and gargoyles. Nothing else really stands out, as most of the other units are distinctively worse than the previous book.

Looking forward to seeing what comes out in this thread.

The response about the new dex reminds me a lot of the one around the CSM one when it came out. Some shock, before settling into discussions about how to make it work.

Any truth to the rumor that boneswords might actually be better this edition?

Boneswords lost their little leadership test thingy, dropped to AP3, but gained the effects of our old Implant Attack (instant death on a to-wound of 6). They're actually worth taking on a tyrant now, because it's AP2.

Lash whips got mostly better - before it only dropped what you were in b2b with to I1. Now it boosts the wielder's I by 3, making you faster than most other enemy units (I7 for warriors). It also allows you to make sure you kill the models you want to because the enemy pulls casualties away from models base to base with those striking at initiative. If you can nail a flamer, meltagun, sergeant with your I7 warrior, he'll be the first to die before the rest of the warriors & marines fight.


Edit - the movement phase is still the Tyranids (well every army in my opinion) most important part of the turn. Utilzing cover, LOS Blocking terrain, and positioning models for charges is incredibly important to make the army click. It is not sit and shoot tau/eldar.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Boneswords lost their little leadership test thingy, dropped to AP3, but gained the effects of our old Implant Attack (instant death on a to-wound of 6). They're actually worth taking on a tyrant now, because it's AP2.

Lash whips got mostly better - before it only dropped what you were in b2b with to I1. Now it boosts the wielder's I by 3, making you faster than most other enemy units (I7 for warriors). It also allows you to make sure you kill the models you want to because the enemy pulls casualties away from models base to base with those striking at initiative. If you can nail a flamer, meltagun, sergeant with your I7 warrior, he'll be the first to die before the rest of the warriors & marines fight.
.

A pair of bone swords caused instant death before also and on a MUCH higher percentage than on a 6 to wound, so it's just a straight nerf. LD test on 3d6 = average of > 10 which is better than 16% chance that a 6 to-wound is. Lash whips are better tho all around. Tyrants will probably want to be flying tho, so not sure why you'd want boneswords over shooting attacks tho, T6 W4 3+ dies so easily in todays 40k.

 Kirasu wrote:

 tetrisphreak wrote:
Boneswords lost their little leadership test thingy, dropped to AP3, but gained the effects of our old Implant Attack (instant death on a to-wound of 6). They're actually worth taking on a tyrant now, because it's AP2.

Lash whips got mostly better - before it only dropped what you were in b2b with to I1. Now it boosts the wielder's I by 3, making you faster than most other enemy units (I7 for warriors). It also allows you to make sure you kill the models you want to because the enemy pulls casualties away from models base to base with those striking at initiative. If you can nail a flamer, meltagun, sergeant with your I7 warrior, he'll be the first to die before the rest of the warriors & marines fight.
.

A pair of bone swords caused instant death before also and on a MUCH higher percentage than on a 6 to wound, so it's just a straight nerf. LD test on 3d6 = average of > 10 which is better than 16% chance that a 6 to-wound is. Lash whips are better tho all around. Tyrants will probably want to be flying tho, so not sure why you'd want boneswords over shooting attacks tho, T6 W4 3+ dies so easily in todays 40k.

Let's be honest here...this codex is more of a side-grade than a downgrade. I'll admit that. It looks like a cut-paste (with a little more "cut" than "paste") of the old book, and point cost slashing across the board. We're left with an army that much like orks, dies to bolters and missiles in droves as it tries to get across the table. (At least Orks have Battlewagons and Trukks..) I'm still going to make the best of what there is, and just deal with it.

What we should all be trying to do instead of lamenting over the loss of certain rules, and unit changes, is dig deep to find ways to Win vs Tau or Eldar, or at the very least force them to a draw when possible.

One of the big winners I'm seeing is combining lictor/s and spore mines. Drop the lictor somewhere close to the enemy then drop the spore mines with no scatter. If they blow up their large blast should take a few with them. Plus it is all super cheap.

SitW is improves because it is a flat -3 to psykers always, rather than just when they take tests. Combine with psychic shriek and armies like flying circus demons (who make their DPs psykers almost always) will cry.

Gunfexes are back in value with heavy venom cannons being useful again.

Mawlocs are going to be perfect for taking out broadside spam since they have no invuls and with only a 1/6 chance of the super bad mishap who cares. Indeed, if they mishap back into reserve you can underground strike again next turn!

I think there are some good units such as Mawlocs (as stated), carnifexes, gargoyles, and I guess hive tyrants (more as a requirement for psychic powers).

The problem is the good stuff all competes for slots like gargs and spore minds. The standard 6th ed strategy is to use allies to fix holes in the parent book but obviously that's not an option.

Probably just take some termagaunts for objective holding and rush with gargs, fexes/mawlocs..

 buddha wrote:
One of the big winners I'm seeing is combining lictor/s and spore mines. Drop the lictor somewhere close to the enemy then drop the spore mines with no scatter. If they blow up their large blast should take a few with them. Plus it is all super cheap.

SitW is improves because it is a flat -3 to psykers always, rather than just when they take tests. Combine with psychic shriek and armies like flying circus demons (who make their DPs psykers almost always) will cry.

Gunfexes are back in value with heavy venom cannons being useful again.

Mawlocs are going to be perfect for taking out broadside spam since they have no invuls and with only a 1/6 chance of the super bad mishap who cares. Indeed, if they mishap back into reserve you can underground strike again next turn!

I haven't read the spore mine rules yet but i'm not sure that's how they work now.

I think the ones you take in the FA slot deep strike as per any other unit and will actually mishap if they land on the enemy. The only way i've seen for them to explode (except when fired from harpies and biovores) is when they charge into assault. I could be wrong on this one, but deep striking them in with no scatter would still leave them open for a turn. If they draw enemy fire they might just be worth 15-30 points, though.

If you all have any specific detailed tactics you want me to add to the opening post just let me know and I will start compiling us some information. I am not white knighting to codex at all, but as my favorite army I am going to make it work even if it is an uphill battle every single game.

BTW jifel had a nice tactic proposed in the News and Rumors thread. Something about a bastion with genestealers infiltrating inside of it and coming out the hatch so they are 6 inches beyond the midline. I will see if I can dig it out and put it in this thread.

Also tetrisphreak good to see you in here. You always have a very nice insight regarding nids! Thanks for already adding in some tactics!

@Kirasu: Genestealers are bad. I totally agree with you. They are however my favorite unit ever. I have taken down some wraithknights lately with them by infiltrating and staying in cover a lot till they get to their target. If they fail for me more often than not, I will probably keep using them just because I like them. Ask tetrisphreak...I am a bit weird when it comes to my models. My Ghazghkull is unnecessarily large...lol

 Lord Scythican wrote:
My Ghazghkull is unnecessarily large...lol

Bragging much? Lol


Jokes aside the bastion trick didn't occur to me until today, but that's not a bad use of it. It's already a guaranteed piece of LOS blocking terrain to hide warriors, or venomthropes, or a flyrant behind. Infiltrating genies inside of it would certainly make a "no fly zone" the enemy woudln't want to tread near, and an escape hatch placed back towards the Nid DZ would help a venomthrope jump inside after the genestealers pile out, thus giving them shrouded for a turn if they don't make their charge!

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Lord Scythican wrote:
My Ghazghkull is unnecessarily large...lol

Bragging much? Lol

Oh yeah...I am quite proud of how big he is. Thinking about adding some additional inches to his height! lol Of course "unnecessarily" may also be my way of admitting that I made him a little too big...




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tetrisphreak wrote:


Jokes aside the bastion trick didn't occur to me until today, but that's not a bad use of it. It's already a guaranteed piece of LOS blocking terrain to hide warriors, or venomthropes, or a flyrant behind. Infiltrating genies inside of it would certainly make a "no fly zone" the enemy woudln't want to tread near, and an escape hatch placed back towards the Nid DZ would help a venomthrope jump inside after the genestealers pile out, thus giving them shrouded for a turn if they don't make their charge!

For sure. In addition in objective games, can't you put an object behind the bastion and have the venomthrope jump out to get it near the end of the game if he is still alive?

You could but venomthropes are elites and thus non-scoring units. You could easily hide a brood of 3 warriors or a 10 man termagant squad behidn a bastion though.

Hive guard are probably the only decent shooting option also, despite a 25% drop in effectiveness.. They're not a bad choice if you want to use a bastion.

 Kirasu wrote:
Hive guard are probably the only decent shooting option also, despite a 25% drop in effectiveness.. They're not a bad choice if you want to use a bastion.

I don't see any reason to take the 5 point "upgrade" to the haywire blast (that requires LOS unlike the impaler cannon). Do you?