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Both set ups are perfectly legal... Plus there is definitely a point to taking 2 different CCWs (besides the +1 attack), as you can choose which one to attack with each assault phase.

Prime/Warrior/Shrikes can replace their gun for another pair of Scything talons, so you have 2 sets of Talons to trade .

Tyranid primes can take 2 sets of scything talons, which can both be swapped out for the bio-artefacts. It is not an illegal loadout.

So, i'm pressed for time and thus can't really write up a full bat-rep, but I thought i'd share the first of my experimental "All Genestealer Troops" game, as promised.

I was playing against a Necron player who used a list with two of their awesome flyers, some annihilation barges, and surprisingly numerous infantry (including the deep-strikers that mark targets). Hopefully you'll forgive the lack of details understanding that i'm still somewhat new to 40k and thus don't know other factions aside from C:SM, Orks, and my own 'Nids.

Anyway, this was my list...

1849 Pts Tyranids
HQ
Hive Tyrant: TL Devourers With Brainleech Worms(2), Wings,

Hive Tyrant: TL Devourers With Brainleech Worms(2), Wings,

Troops
Genestealer Brood
- Genestealer(6): Rending Claws,
- Broodlord(1): Rending Claws, Scything Talons,

Genestealer Brood
- Genestealer(7): Rending Claws,

Genestealer Brood
- Genestealer(7): Rending Claws,

Fast Attack
Gargoyle Brood (10): , Fleshborer,

Elites
Zoanthrope Brood (2):

Venomthrope Brood(2): Lash Whips, Toxic Miasma,

Heavy Support
Carnifex Brood(3)
- Carnifex(1): TL Devourers With Brainleech Worms(2),
- Carnifex(1): TL Devourers With Brainleech Worms(2),
- Carnifex(1): TL Devourers With Brainleech Worms(2),

T-Fex: Acid Spray, Stinger Salvo,

Exocrine: , Scything Talons,

My thought was that keeping all my Stealers in reserve gave me the flexibility to deploy them later to hold objectives back-field or elsewhere, OR should opportunities present where they wouldn't be my opponents optimal target, I could infiltrate them up table, and add a little more oomph.

You'd be surprised, but it worked reasonably well. My opponent spent a disproportionate amount of energy turns 1/2 to kill my Venoms, as I used them and the Gargoyles as a line right across my deployment to buy time. I had no doubt they would die, but they lasted long enough to do what they had to, IE let the bigger boys get right into the party.

And early lost Flyrant (my Warlord) fell to crappy dice, which meant my opponent shored up First-Blood and Warlord-kill early, but thanks to the game being Big Guns Never Tire, I essentially rolled the rest of the game, winning decisively.

Stealers not needing to worry about synapse meant I could legitimately commit to putting my stuff up table in a very aggressive way, and the Broodlord unit ended up being the only one I sent into the fray, where it happily tied up a big group of (?) Immortals (?), and contested an objective.

Only one game, yes, but I loved them and instantly felt I was having a better time than when I devoted so many resources to a Tervigon and its Gant tax.

Also of note, I wasn't in love with T-fex and would happily swap him out with a Mawloc if I owned one.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Incidentally: The amount of Dakka from three Dakkafex and my surviving Flyrant made my opponents flyers a non-issue. Those same Dakkafex (well the two alive at that point) also handily smashed barges left and right. I cannot see any Fex build other than Dakkafex right now, honestly.

im noticing nowone is using Hive guard annymore, is the -1 bs that bad?

I always relied on themm to take out those nasty waveserpents/venoms and rhino;s.

Amoras wrote:
im noticing nowone is using Hive guard annymore, is the -1 bs that bad?

I always relied on themm to take out those nasty waveserpents/venoms and rhino;s.

If this is your meta, they're still worthwhile.

If you're struggling against pure infantry...then no...Zoeys are much more worthwhile, and synapse to boot.

we'd be seeing them a lot more if the Haywire shot was 24" range.

I rarely used Hive Guard pre-nerfing, now I have even less reason to take them.

I pulled the HG from my list. Mostly because the elite slot is full for me based on how my army runs. I "may" attempt to add them back in at some point but I doubt it.

So I have been playing a list with just one synapse source. I miss SitW but otherwise it performs well. I will quickly go down a list of units that have done well for me. Oh I have my FExstar list and a few others but they are not the one I field when I want to be highly competitive - they are fun but not as consistent. These mode;s have consisitently done well for me.

1) My elite slots are now filled by 5 Lictors. Okay. They are fragile. But they hit like a ton of bricks - 2 S5 shots and 5 S6 rending attacks on the charge. DSing them behind dev squads or vehicles and you get results. If you have Mawlocs they can work but you know it is okay if your Mawloc mishaps. On 83% of time you benefit from this anyway. Very flexible units able to infiltrat, outflank or DS and hit and run 3D6 to reposition. And do not forget their -1LD - good with broodlord or psychic scream.

2) I now use a Deathleaper as one of my HQs. Similar to Lictors of course but ... reducing LD on some ICs is just golden as a bonus.

3) Broodlord and stealers are now in all my lists. They are my troops of choice. Horror is good when you also have Lictors around. Again I love that I can deploy them as outdlankers or infiltarators. Best is that they need no synapse.

4) Bastion w/ comms goes in my lists. Of course I use models that DS and I use one squad of termagants that do not need synapse babaysitters. They are fearless in the Bastion. It is also good cover early. Win win.

5) My Hiv Crones now all have stigers. The extra ten points is well worth it against targets where my tentaclids are not wuite as useful or even after a vector strike. Ageainst Eldar almost an auto-include.

6) Malocs still impress me. I love mishaping with them and will attack parking lots if the target presents itself. Against Tau I feel an auto-include.

As for why I take bonesword and rending claws. I use the bonesword against high Toughness or multi-wound models or units that have a 3+ save. The rending claws are for vehicles or 2+save, mostly anti-mech though.

The new data slate is pictured in this weeks upcoming white dwarf. I hope this means it will be available for download Saturday. I'm crossing my fingers that we will see some useful upgrades to warrior broods in this one.

Just make deathspitters 24" range blast weapons again!!

I'm hoping for some sort of formation that will make my Trygon actually useful, and hopefully Raveners as well. A Carnifex brood formation would also be nice but I don't expect one in this upcoming dataslate, possibly the next one.

Amoras wrote:im noticing nowone is using Hive guard annymore, is the -1 bs that bad?

I always relied on themm to take out those nasty waveserpents/venoms and rhino;s.

There aren't nearly as many transports now, but if there are in your area, they should do fine.

As someone noted earlier, the 18" range of the Haywire version is sort of poopy too.

tetrisphreak wrote:The new data slate is pictured in this weeks upcoming white dwarf. I hope this means it will be available for download Saturday. I'm crossing my fingers that we will see some useful upgrades to warrior broods in this one.

Just make deathspitters 24" range blast weapons again!!

They likely won't change stats or weapon abilities. It will be special rules and formations, not an amendment/FAQ to the codex.

Yea I know the most it will do is add a USR or two but a man can wish.

I'm more interested in FOC shenanigans.

Yes a prime that doesn't take up an FOC slot, or extra hive tyrants would be pretty cool. So hopefully it'll be out Saturday.

Does anyone fear that our FMC lists with 2 Winged Tyrants and Crones are like our version of the 9 vendetta setup? Or flying circus?

Gatekeeper wrote:
Does anyone fear that our FMC lists with 2 Winged Tyrants and Crones are like our version of the 9 vendetta setup? Or flying circus?

No.

I personally find both units to be vastly underpowered and inhibiting in list building...the Tyranid codex is as balanced as it's fifth edition predecessor...probably the most balanced codex out there...scratch that...guard and Eldar probably win there... But, the more you try to powerbuild with bugs...the worse you're lists will get.

All of my games require a bastion or redoubt though...or...at least for competitive play...a bastion or redoubt.

Personally, I would just like to wishlist and get a venomthrope formation that can't have the cover saves they provide removed by ANY means. Pretty much solve all the issues; as well as allowing me to make a damn foot slogging list that doesn't involve an imperial bastion all the time

I agree that the 6th Edition Nid codex has gone from "Zulu Dawn" to "This Old House". We should be attacking fortifications, not building them.

Now excuse me I am sorting through my bits bin trying to figure out how to build a redoubt from spare parts and plasticard. *sigh*

I went with the newer meta, but didn't like how it was playing and went back to a more typical list for me. It is much weaker than it used to be, and I have to use the damned flyrants which I never used with the last codex, but it has worked so far.

2X flyrants w/ TLD
2 venom
2X 3 hive guard

13 devilgaunts
30 gaunts with 10 devourers
Tervigon, Electroshock grubs
3 Warriors, either w/ 1 BS,or 3 DS

12 gargoyles w/ AG
Exocrine
Trygon Prime

15 extra points, if I do 1850 I drop the warriors and a few gaunts

In general, the venoms try to find a ruin to form a base around, preferably near the center of the table. Flyrants use their bubble for 3+ flyer saves, and usually fly over terrain so if they do lawn dart, they are still in cover. 30X gaunt unit usually reinforces in, so I can hopefully take out the pieplate/flamer threats before it shows. MC's run near venoms as best they can; warriors and terv run a flanking force for objectives if they have cover, otherwise one HT is used. The tryprime comes in where I lose synapse, or where it can pressure the enemy backfield (assuming the HT's aren't doing it already). Essentially, if the HT's hit the backfield, then the tryprime fills in the coverage behind. If they are busy in the center or my backfield, the trygon gets into the enemy backfield. I try to keep enough of the gargoyles alive to tie up a powerful unit for a few rounds with blindness. They get AG to help them make the charge.

I'm not going to spend $500 for new models to make my army competitive again, so I'm using what I already have. Fortunately, my custom t-fexes make excellent exocrine.
I may try using the trygon as a mawloc, though I hate losing the synapse.

Hiveguard are still very useful. No LOS, Str8 , no cover save is still great against most things.

I've not had to fight taudar yet, I suspect they will crush this force unless I get lucky, or a foolishly aggressive opponent.

I'm still insanely disappointed with this codex, and just won't give GW another dime as a result. I've got 6000 points of painted bugs, most of which had their value reduced or negated. I miss my spores so much. I may convert some pterodactyls for harpies, if I get my ass handed to me too often.

 Gloomfang wrote:
Now excuse me I am sorting through my bits bin trying to figure out how to build a redoubt from spare parts and plasticard. *sigh*

A looted Redoubt would obviously be the easiest option to model, especially an orky one (who made it by looting other races' bits).

But I'd love to see someone build an actual Tyranid counts-as-Redoubt. The bunker part isn't too hard - piles of chitin and/or dead nids who've sacrificed themselves. The major hurdle would be making something that believably looks like nid equivalents of twin-linked lascannon - some sort of immobile carnifexes each carrying four lascannon equivalents? Or even build it as a pair of open mycetic spores with immobile gunbeasts inside?

Really old screamer-killer with 4 Heavy Venom Cannons for arms? And the legs are just part of the "bunker"

That's my plan if/when I ever build one.

rigeld2 wrote:
Really old screamer-killer with 4 Heavy Venom Cannons for arms? And the legs are just part of the "bunker"

That's my plan if/when I ever build one.

Spare Harpy Bio-cannons would be Ideal for this type of conversion. However without bits sites or a good ability to re-cast them yourself it would be very difficult to muster. But great idea though!

I'm sure I could work something together from my spare Carnifex HVCs.

rigeld2 wrote:
I'm sure I could work something together from my spare Carnifex HVCs.

Do you simply think a fex is the best size?

I have some old warriors that I was just starting to think would make great turrets...maybe with a head swap/removal.

EDIT: Also, how are people setting theirs up?

Me: Battle Cannon, Magos Spirit, Void Shield.

The Magos is immediately necessary once you take off one of the quadcannons
The Battle Bannon is to dissuade pod marines and bikes...and it means that people don't try to "bait" the fire at the closest unit rule as much.
The Void Shield is because I was sick of Thunderfire cannons and other long range low strength shots.

I had the following idea...

Armorcast Malefactors as Bastions - converting a canopy of sorts using Scything Talons and Greenstuff to build a web around the edge...

Armorcast Dactylis as a Firestorm Redoubt.

 ductvader wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
I'm sure I could work something together from my spare Carnifex HVCs.

Do you simply think a fex is the best size?

For a lascannon equivalent? Yeah - STR 9, AP is wrong and it's not blast but close enough.

I have some old warriors that I was just starting to think would make great turrets...maybe with a head swap/removal.

I could see that. Put a carnifex back plate instead of a head. Or something like that.

Finished painting my 6 new warriors today.

Now I have to decide these two troop options:

A) 4x2 Warrior Brood, all have dev/rending claws and one has LW/BS. Both troops outflank

B)Outflanking 7 Warrior Brood with devs/rending claws, one ST cannon and one LW/BS. Then 16 gaunts deploying regular.

For right now my gun emplacments look to be spare ravener bodies with a couple of left over HVCs for the guns. Going to mount some spare warrior heads and work in some leftover carnifex backplate and addition armour pieces from the genestealer sprue.

I wouldn't have to do this if something other that flyrants or crones had skyfire. I like converting, but I hate feeling like I have to go out of my dex to have a competitve list.