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All the dakka in the world. Was looking at something similar in the old dex, seems even better now. Workable? Viable?

HQ
Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Twin Devourers-230
Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Twin Devourers-230

Troops
20 Termagants- Devourers- 160
20 Termagants- Devourers- 160
20 Termagants- Devourers- 160

Heavy Support
2 Carnifexes- Double Twin Devourers- 300
2 Carnifexes- Double Twin Devourers- 300
2 Carnifexes- Double Twin Devourers- 300

Total= 1840

Thoughts? Anything to spend 10 points on of note other than an extra gaunt?

I don't have the codex, are Carnifex Synapse creatures?
If no, I think you are going to have instinctive behavior problems when your Flyrants go hunting.

You might need to clear out a Carnifex unit and replace them by a single Tervigon to serve as a Synapse producer.

 paqman wrote:

I don't have the codex, are Carnifex Synapse creatures?
If no, I think you are going to have instinctive behavior problems when your Flyrants go hunting.

You might need to clear out a Carnifex unit and replace them by a single Tervigon to serve as a Synapse producer.

Bad Idea there, Trevigon adds nothing to this list and will cause a liability with it's increased death spam. The list does need Synapse though, You could drop 2 fex, and grab 3 Brood of 3 warriors for more devourers, more troops and more Synapse with about another 40 points left over. You could add a Zoanthrope for that + the 10[edited for bad math] you have left or add 5 guants. And that is only to keep the theme of Devourers. For durablilty, drop 1 fex and grab 3 solo Zoanthropes.

I think the Zoes are a more survivable choice than the warriors because of their fancy invul save. Plus I would use them for buffs since they get a 2nd psychic power.

Yea. If all you want zoanthropes for is synapse you can get them a 12" synapse bubble by taking the primaris power. I'd say 3 zoanthropes as 3 separate broods and spread them across the table. No issues at all

Indeed, good idea about the splitted up Zoes. Much better than the Tervies!
Sorry about that

What about straight swapping all the gaunts for devourer warriors?

Removes synapse issue and should be fairly save considering the 8 MC's in front of them being a more immediate threat?

No further thoughts on the list?

Anyone?

 mixer86 wrote:
No further thoughts on the list?

Anyone?

My in-experienced view.

You could drop the Wings. That'll give you one Zoany for synapse. Yeah you'll loose skyfire/ first blood (but the enemy can longer single you out) but:
8x12 shots still.
=29 snap shots or 3.625 each.

5 glance almost versus AV12 flyer.
I thinks that right.

I'm also thinking with my DevGaunts, having Spike Rifles Gaunts in front. It saves points, and creates fodder. Tbf the Flesh Borers wound never get in range before dying so might as well switch to a chance with wounding with a range increase.

With changing 10 Gaunts per brood you'll save 120pts. That's another 10 spike rifles and 10 Dev Gaunts
Decrease in firepower, but increase in saturation.
Or get 2 more vital Synapse dudes.

i did notice people mentioning the abilty to split loadouts in units so i've got 2 new lists for your perusal.

List 1 (Gants as troops)

HQ
Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Devourer- 230
Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Devourer- 230

Elites
Venomthrope- 45
Venomthrope- 45

Troops
20 Termagants- 10 Devourers- 120
20 Termagants- 10 Devourers- 120
20 Termagants- 10 Devourers- 120

Heavy Support
2 Carnifexes- Double Devourer- 300
2 Carnifexes- Double Devourer- 300
2 Carnifexes- Double Devourer- 300

Total= 1810

Leaves 40 points to spend, thropes for gants cover saves.

List 2 (Warriors for synapse)

HQ
Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Devourer- 230
Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Devourer- 230

Elites
Venomthrope- 45

Troops
30 Termagants- 120
5 Warriors- 150
5 Warriors- 150

Heavy Support
3 Carnifexes- 5 TL Devourers, 1 CC- 450
3 Carnifexes- 5 TL Devourers, 1 CC- 450

Thrope for extra cover, warriors cover off the synapse issues while the flyrants go hunting.

Thoughts?

You need more Carnifexes and more synapse.

I would drop some gaunts and probably get rid of the Devourers on them it makes tthem more of a target. Perhaps grab Hive commander so they can outflank. Something like this:

HQ
Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Devourer, Hive Commander, Toxin sacs- 260
Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Devourer- 230

Elites
Zoanthrope 50
Zoanthrope 50
Zoanthrope 50

Troops
20 Termagants- 80
20 Termagants- 80

Heavy Support
3 Carnifexes- Double Devourer- 450
2 Carnifexes- Double Devourer- 300
2 Carnifexes- Double Devourer- 300

 FlingitNow wrote:
You need more Carnifexes and more synapse.

I would drop some gaunts and probably get rid of the Devourers on them it makes tthem more of a target. Perhaps grab Hive commander so they can outflank. Something like this:

HQ
Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Devourer, Hive Commander, Toxin sacs- 260
Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Devourer- 230

Elites
Zoanthrope 50
Zoanthrope 50
Zoanthrope 50

Troops
20 Termagants- 80
20 Termagants- 80

Heavy Support
3 Carnifexes- Double Devourer- 450
2 Carnifexes- Double Devourer- 300
2 Carnifexes- Double Devourer- 300

That is pretty filthy

Although i am not convinced that 2 gant units is enough. perhaps 3 units with no upgrades?

What about this?

Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Devourer- 230
Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Devourer- 230

Zoan
Zoan

20 Termagants- 80
20 Termagants- 80
20 Termagants- 80

3 Carnifexes- Double Devourer- 450
2 Carnifexes- Double Devourer- 300
2 Carnifexes- Double Devourer- 300

1850 on the nose.

i take it nobody thinks warriors for troops are worth it then?

was thinking 3 units of 5 would be a solid choice for plenty of synapse and 8 MC's plus 40 points left over for upgrades?

Yeah that works too. The Hive Commander was to allow a unit of gaunts to outflank. It probably makes them more survivable through not being on the table early game without the issue of them walking on with no synapse around.

Warriors are viable as troops but the issue is Riptides just bone them over. I think you're better off with multiple units of 3 (no need to take a bigger unit unless you're rocking a Prime) with either just 1 cannon (either is OK both have a 36" range which is useful Venom cannon can hurt vehicles which would probably be my choice) or with a cannon and 2 death spitters. That's 100 or 110 a troops choice with 9 T4 wounds. Not terrible really.

The great thing with Warriors is that any S8 pointed at them is S8 not pointed at your MCs. The downside is Riptides, battle cannons and Psyrifle Dreads all of which will be far more efficient shooting a brood of warriors than a single MC. Hence why taking little units of 3 helps mitigate that (keep them maximum spread in a line).

 FlingitNow wrote:
Yeah that works too. The Hive Commander was to allow a unit of gaunts to outflank. It probably makes them more survivable through not being on the table early game without the issue of them walking on with no synapse around.

Warriors are viable as troops but the issue is Riptides just bone them over. I think you're better off with multiple units of 3 (no need to take a bigger unit unless you're rocking a Prime) with either just 1 cannon (either is OK both have a 36" range which is useful Venom cannon can hurt vehicles which would probably be my choice) or with a cannon and 2 death spitters. That's 100 or 110 a troops choice with 9 T4 wounds. Not terrible really.

The great thing with Warriors is that any S8 pointed at them is S8 not pointed at your MCs. The downside is Riptides, battle cannons and Psyrifle Dreads all of which will be far more efficient shooting a brood of warriors than a single MC. Hence why taking little units of 3 helps mitigate that (keep them maximum spread in a line).

Ok so i'm fairly happy with the gaunts option.

What about this for warriors then? Cannot decide which to do, though i think you know which i would probably prefer, but only worth it if good enough.

Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Devourer- 230
Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Devourer- 230

3 Tyranid Warriors- Venom Cannon- 100
3 Tyranid Warriors- Venom Cannon- 100
3 Tyranid Warriors- Venom Cannon- 100
3 Tyranid Warriors- Venom Cannon- 100
3 Tyranid Warriors- 90

2 Carnifexes- Double Devourer- 300
2 Carnifexes- Double Devourer- 300
2 Carnifexes- Double Devourer- 300

1850

other option was to drop the non-venom cannon squad for 2 venomthropes for shrouding the warriors.

Thoughts?

I personally feel if you have the FOC elite space Zoanies are a better choice than Warriors. Warriors are cool and all, but if ypu have suffient troops they don't add anything else to your if Zoanies are available. I'll be taking them again just because it's been a while...

Yeah I think the last squad can go for 2 individual Venomthropes. I actually think that is viable the more I look at the book the more the warriors seem like a viable troops choice now. It means Synapse really isn't an issue for you. Warriors give the Fexes cover Venom makes it a 3+. On a city board probably a 2+ cover for the whole bunch.

Eskimo - yes Zoanthropes are very good now but its not like he's got loads of troops. Also the Warriors add ranged damage until the Carnifexes can get within 18".

I would go with this

Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Twin Devourers-230
Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Twin Devourers-230

Elite

1 Zoan

1 Zoan

2 Venom

Troops
25 Termagants- Devourers- 160
25 Termagants- Devourers- 160
25 Termagants- Devourers- 160

Heavy Support
2 Carnifexes- Double Twin Devourers- 300
2 Carnifexes- Double Twin Devourers- 300

Zoans give you better synapse cover and you get a two extra psychic powers and the venoms shroud will help you survive units you can make contact. Extra troops to ensure you can hold objectives. Not sure if it I will work but I think that is looks good enough on paper to warrant trying.

Zookie the problem with that list is the threat comes from the MCs (just like the OP list) but you have just 6. Killing 4-5 MCs in a couple of turns of shooting is very possible for a lot of armies these days meaning you're unlikely to reach the lines against a good shooting list with just 6 monsters, meaning just 1 or 2 get there. 8 means 3-4 should hit home which should be enough against a gunline to win the day.

You need to flood your opponent with MCs with this Nid codex.

So this sounds pretty good then?

Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Devourer
Hive Tyrant- Wings, Double Devourer

Venomthrope
Venomthrope

3 Tyranid Warriors- Venom Cannon
3 Tyranid Warriors- Venom Cannon
3 Tyranid Warriors- Venom Cannon
3 Tyranid Warriors- Venom Cannon

2 Carnifexes- Double Devourer
2 Carnifexes- Double Devourer
2 Carnifexes- Double Devourer

1850

I quite like your list as well zookie to be fair, but i personally love fexes as i wanted to do something like mine with the old dex.

for me and my meta, 1 really think the extra couple of MC's will prove more useful.

FlingitNow wrote:
Eskimo - yes Zoanthropes are very good now but its not like he's got loads of troops. Also the Warriors add ranged damage until the Carnifexes can get within 18".

My post was in relation to Mixer's "warriors viable" question and not the list he made with Warrior spam. That's the problem phone replies, all to slow.

I think the Warrior spam is pretty awesome. I too have 12 Warriors, but half of them aren't built.

Though why the Venom cannons instead of the Barbed Stranglers? S1 difference, more chance of missing and no pinning... Shame the multiple loadouts don't allow a cannon each

Shame you can't squash 10 gaunts in there somewhere, for extra cover 1 turn and just in case for a lone objective.

2 points of strength, pinning is largely irrelevant. It means he can chip hull points off vehicles. The strangler is also good but against the stuff he wants to hurt (Riptides, Broadsides, Wave Serpents, Centurions etc) the S6 should win out. I can see both being useful.

 FlingitNow wrote:
2 points of strength, pinning is largely irrelevant. It means he can chip hull points off vehicles. The strangler is also good but against the stuff he wants to hurt (Riptides, Broadsides, Wave Serpents, Centurions etc) the S6 should win out. I can see both being useful.

True. Not the first time getting that S and AP mixed around on the Strangler

So the questions i have then:

1) warriors viable choice?
2) if so, venom or starnglethorn?

There's plenty of S6 shooting already, and Stranglers do hit more often than not, along with pinning stuff.

Depends how many feerless armies you face.

1) yes
2) 50/50 split is OK. Pinning has its uses for instance all it takes is 1 failed LD test and that O'Vesastar is snap shifting and can't move. But S4 can mean it is entirely useless against lots of armies and most of the good stuff is Ld10 or fearless (or in the case of guard just ignore it).

Coolio.

Will have a serious think about nids with my warrior list.

Cheers guys.