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So I finally picked up the big boy this weekend. I was wondering which weapon load out should I use. The two heavy cannons are nice, but i was leaning toward the Blast weapon and Scatter laser.

As for the rest of the list, it is very flexible. I have several units I can change out to fit almost any style.

Thoughts?

Well, it really depends on whats in the rest of your list.
I like the stock wraithknight, but the suncannon has its uses.

I've been running two stock and they have been wonderful. I tried the suncannon once, but I play very agressively with the WK, so he ended up in combat and so the suncannon never had a chance to shine. So, I haven't formed an opinion on the suncannon other than, it doesn't work for the list I had built for it.

I'd recommend you magnetize it so you have all of the options. You paid enough for it, get your money's worth.

Wraithknight SHOULD be getting into combat, you aren't paying 300 points for 3 S6 AP2 blasts and 4 S6 AP6 shots. That is the first problem with justifying the Suncannon. Second problem is that we as Eldar don't really lack AP3 or better. Rending across the board and the weight of anti-infantry firepower sees to that. While S10 is rare in our codex, especially above 12". Third problem is cover saves. Gtg means they're still saving on a 3+, regardless of AP. Plus, if you're spaced right, you're looking at 2-3 hits per blast, which isn't a lot of damage for 300 points.

So Heavy Wraithcannons all the way. Wraithknights in general are amazing units, it has been a cornerstone of my list and the only unit I am always using.

Keep him away from kroot or they'll eat him.

I agree with taking the stock cannons. The Sun cannon is nice, and so is the 5++, for the 60 points I'd rather just have another 3 jetbikes. If you are looking for some good AP2 for cheaper than the 300 pts a Sun Cannon WK would cost, I would recomend the FW Hornets. 285 points gets you 3 Hornets, all with holofields with 2 pulse lasers each. Thats 12x S8, AP 2 shots a turn. They also have a special rule which allows them to fire snap shots even after moving flat out. I have run them twice now and they have been solid gold for me.

Thanks guys. I was really leaning toward the suncannon, but now I see the use of the stock guns. Either way I plan onbeing able to swap the weapons out.

And i will have to look into the Hornets.

Opinion from you guys who've had one: What about going with the ghostglaive/scattershield and then throwing on whatever two weapons on top of that you want? I realize it'd be more points but getting 5++ and Master-Crafted on your melee rolls seems to me like that'd be the best way to go if you plan on just ramming it into things.

Haven't tried it. I think most people consider that to be a downgrade.

I'd rather keep it without upgrades than downgrade the firepower significantly. Also, I'm often running a farseer who is going to prescience the WK, which is better than Master crafting.

I'd love to hear that it is a fantastic setup, but I have yet to see it.

I was probably going to rig up the eventual Wratihknight I get (which probably won't be for, like, a whole year) that way mostly because it looks bad-ass and I'd rather have the coolest looking army on a table than the one that wins most.

I guess I don't see it as a downgrade if you're already planning on running any of the other two weapons he can take, like, Scatterlasers. I personally don't concern myself with anti-armor all that much with my Eldar lists because of an abundance of Bright Lances and besides, no vehicle outside of super heavies are going to survive a Wraithknight assaulting it should I feel I need to do that rather than dump 4 Scatter Laser/3 Shuriken Cannon rounds into some horde I plan to obliterate then Sweeping Advance. (MCs can still sweeping advance, right? I admit I forget the abundance of extra rules they get off the top of my head.)

Plus, I'd rather blow Prescience on, say, a horde of Fire Dragons than on a Wraithknight just so it gets to reroll misses in close combat.

I really feel like the WK kneeds an invulnerable save because outside of poison, the things that are even strong enough to potentially hurt it almost all break it's 3+ anyway.

I agree it looks cool, but there is no way the Sword/Shield loadout should cost points. You are losing 2 S10 AP2 shots which can ID anything (i.e one of the most powerful shooting weapons in the game) in enchange for a single re-roll to hit and a 5++. The issue here is that GW massively overvalued that 5++, its almost useless for a WK - against shooting you can put a toe of that stupidly massive model into cover and get the same effect (without the risk of blinding your own models I might add). In combat a 5++ isn't going to swing any fight it wasn't going to win in the first place, usually things that can hurt a WK (and get through a 3+) can make a huge mess of it - a 5++ isn't going to save you against a TH/SS Terminator unit or GK's/anything else with a high strength force weapon etc. Really the WK should be about 200pts base with a Sword and Shield and then can pay to upgrade either arm to whatever it wants (so it could run Shield + Wraithcannon or Sword + Suncannon etc)

the 5+ invulnerable is equal to or less than any cover save you'll get, and in CC I have never seen it swing the battle.

With the relatively low WS on the WK I think he is the perfect candidate for Precience. Most of my army is already twin linked, so not too many things require that, and the WK gets exponentially better with it. (or with invisibility!) Also, I have never seen a "horde" of fire dragons, and I used to run 21 of them in my Fuegan list back in 5th. lol

All joking aside, I agree with the point that it all depends on the list you're building. If you don't need the Strength ten shots, then go for it... and I wholeheartedly support running fire dragons. I haven't in a while but they're so badass.

I have thought about running two with the sword and board combo, but every time I make the list, I cannot justify the points wasted on giving him the sword/shield over other necessary things in the list.

Again, if you have good luck with them, I'd love to hear about it. Send a list my way, and I'll definitely try it out.

With my third one on the way I have been thinking about running two stock and one with the suncannon/shield combo, and making him a warlord. Just to try something funky. I'll post results.

stock loadout all day long. Suncannon is largely a waste since He turns into a lower-str Executioner for more points in an army that doesnt need low AP help.

either stock or suncannon works well. I personally prefer the suncannon, as it adds to survivability.

It also gives the model a more well rounded capability. Sure the stock guns are great vs landraiders, and you can kick the hell out of centurions, but what happens when you came to a horde army?

30 ork boys will keep your wraith knight in combat all game long.

It all comes down to what else you have in your list, and your meta.

If you are facing off vs daemons, and possibly the new tyranids, then the str 10 and ID of the stock weapons can be very potent.

Personally I dont see the use of two high strenght shots in an eldar list. Highly ineffective against most enemies, and one mediocre dice roll let that land raider survive a salvo anyway.

Suncannon, made twin linked with laser lock is my weapon of choise. A mediocre dice roll still cripple horrible units if not taking it out in all.
The sword seems like a horrible waste.

Why the hell are people shooting heavy wraithcannons at land raiders? Seriously, do you people even play this game? S10 vs AV14 is not effective in low quantity. Go punch it instead. S10 is useful for things like thunderfires, MCs, preds, centurions, chimeras, Vindicators, and such. Things that are tough enough that S6-7 doesnt do much, but where you still have good chances to pen and kill between jump movement and shooting.

Eldar already have the 2nd most S6 &7 shooting (nids and crons are the best at each of those) and can deal with 2+s with simple rends. Quantity of fire rends have always been the weapons of choice vs terminators, especially SS ones that you normally see. Sun cannon is useful vs.... well not much. Anything shot will go to ground, sure, but when you only kill half a squad or less at 300 points I'm thinking i want strengths elsewhere. No competition placing eldar army uses suncannons for reasons.

I have mine set up sun cannon/ shield, scatter laser, and then just to look cool I have the sword in front of him sticking out of the ground.

 zephoid wrote:
Why the hell are people shooting heavy wraithcannons at land raiders? Seriously, do you people even play this game? S10 vs AV14 is not effective in low quantity. Go punch it instead. S10 is useful for things like thunderfires, MCs, preds, centurions, chimeras, Vindicators, and such. Things that are tough enough that S6-7 doesnt do much, but where you still have good chances to pen and kill between jump movement and shooting.

Eldar already have the 2nd most S6 &7 shooting (nids and crons are the best at each of those) and can deal with 2+s with simple rends. Quantity of fire rends have always been the weapons of choice vs terminators, especially SS ones that you normally see. Sun cannon is useful vs.... well not much. Anything shot will go to ground, sure, but when you only kill half a squad or less at 300 points I'm thinking i want strengths elsewhere. No competition placing eldar army uses suncannons for reasons.

I am not doubting your arguments except for the part about only killing half a squad. Are you saying that because a 300 point unit can not fully destroy a squad in one turn it is not worth the points? most units can not earn their points back in a single turn.

 zephoid wrote:
Why the hell are people shooting heavy wraithcannons at land raiders? Seriously, do you people even play this game? S10 vs AV14 is not effective in low quantity. Go punch it instead. S10 is useful for things like thunderfires, MCs, preds, centurions, chimeras, Vindicators, and such. Things that are tough enough that S6-7 doesnt do much, but where you still have good chances to pen and kill between jump movement and shooting.

Eldar already have the 2nd most S6 &7 shooting (nids and crons are the best at each of those) and can deal with 2+s with simple rends. Quantity of fire rends have always been the weapons of choice vs terminators, especially SS ones that you normally see. Sun cannon is useful vs.... well not much. Anything shot will go to ground, sure, but when you only kill half a squad or less at 300 points I'm thinking i want strengths elsewhere. No competition placing eldar army uses suncannons for reasons.

I dont understand your first argument. Why would you not shoot the land raider AND go punch it. They are not mutually exclusive. I find that dealing with AV 14, sometimes that 1 glance from the wraithcannon means everything when the WK assaults.

Str 10 at AV14 isn't that bad of a deal. If you've got 2 WKs you are likely to get a HP.

jbunny wrote:

I am not doubting your arguments except for the part about only killing half a squad. Are you saying that because a 300 point unit can not fully destroy a squad in one turn it is not worth the points? most units can not earn their points back in a single turn.

With 3 blasts hitting 3 models each small blast you are at 9 hits plus 3 scatter laser hits. thats 7 suncannon wounds and 3 scatter laser wounds. G2G in area cover is 3.3 dead marines, in blocking situations 4.5, and in no cover 8. Now, since most people dont even bring 10 man tac squads anymore, lets just go at shooting 5 man tac squads. In the average, you are doing 4.5 wounds (less if the enemy is even partially inteligent and in area terrain) So half the time you dont even kill a whole 5 man tac squad thats what, 80 points? You would need 3-4 turns of shooting all being successful to make its points back. Now, in competitive settings you are seeing more diverse types of units you would fire suncannons at:

Bikes: Cover save at all time, but without G2G the suncannon can be effective here
Demons: the in inv save on all of them makes the suncannon equivalent to the S6 spam that eldar already do.
Eldar: shooting at jetbikes is going to be a waste of shots, shooting at guardians much of the same. Not many people run anything like heavy inf in eldar. I guess you might find a use vs war walkers, but it seems very inefficient.
Guard: just about zero here the suncannon is effective against.
GK: Might find a use here due to the cost per model of GK, but its not like eldar have a hard time with GK anymore. Probably better off with the cheaper stock and just going and punching squads that dont have hammers. Only 1 warp charge means they have to choose between ID and S5, and without S5 they cant even hurt the WK.
SW: What in the whole SW army stands up to eldar? Not much.
Orks: Both WK variants are less than effective here, but at least the S10 can ID bikers and is cheaper. With the 4+ cover, T5, and 2W, you arent very effective here. Better points spent on other eldar S6 shooting.
Crons: I would guess the flying breakfast+ Wraiths is still showing up here and there and neither variant is effective, but at least the S10 can snap shot fliers (a single hit bears a good chance to kill too).


So if your meta is still largely marines, Suncanonns may be worth it. Otherwise, vs any of the normal competition placers, wraithcannons win. Cost is also a huge factor, especially when taking multiples.

 LValx wrote:
Str 10 at AV14 isn't that bad of a deal. If you've got 2 WKs you are likely to get a HP.

480 points of shooting taking a single HP is not useful. One round of smashing (for the reroll to pen) usually does the job. Average 2 AP2 pens, which should immobilize, stun, or kill (so long as you are B2B the next round, its dead).

All depends on what you want your wraightknight to do for me. Mine is magnetized anyway.

If I am spamming my str6 then ya wraithcannon all the way so this is my usual build.

Sometimes though I go with a wraith themed force where str10 ID is all over the place. This is where its all about the sun cannon for me.

What you need when you need it.

The only situation that you mentioned where using the Heavy cannons would be better was the Ork bikes. For the others, sun cannon might not be ideal, but it's better that the Heavy cannon just because of more shots.

And personally, if a unit goes to ground that I count that as a win, unless they are sitting on an objective.

Hmm I have yet to try it but I think the sword shield combo with duel SL may not be a bad idea for anti hoards, like these new nids. 8 shots and such high movement means you can knock down a FMC and then kill him in assault.

jbunny wrote:
The only situation that you mentioned where using the Heavy cannons would be better was the Ork bikes. For the others, sun cannon might not be ideal, but it's better that the Heavy cannon just because of more shots.

And personally, if a unit goes to ground that I count that as a win, unless they are sitting on an objective.

Ok, you want me to list where heavy wraithcannons are better?
-VS marines: Preds and TFCs are both prime targets, fliers if nothing else since most marine fliers are AV11-12. Eldar really dont have a lot that gets rid of any of those targets. S6-7 AP- can only do so much when your target in T7 3+ or AV13 and at long range. Also, ICs on bikes are good targets, though the EW storm shield does make that less useful (you still blow that character up in melee though).
-VS orks: Nob bikers, truks, fast enough to get side armor on battlewagons without fearing being assaulted (at worst you speed bump them over 4+ rounds of combat)
-VS eldar: war walkers, serpents with down shields, fire prisms. Not super effective vs any, but allows you to focus more on getting into melee as you never have to care about shooting a squad and not being able to assault the WS next to them because you are multi-role.
-VS Guard: Matters what list they bring, but every guard player brings some vehicles, an ADL w quad (just shoot the quad gun). You really dont want to be assaulting guardsmen ever, so shooting the suncannon at guardsmen denies your assault.
-VS Tau: see that riptide? Chase that f***er down. Wraithcannons have a chance to ID riptides at range, kill crisis suit commanders in a single shot, and generally be a huge threat to most of what tau need to win. Also good to be able to not be multi-role here as you probably want to be assaulting the biggest thing they have rather than some fire warriors that you shot at because your blasts would be largely ineffective vs things like riptides.
-VS crons: Lots of AV13 here or AV11 fliers (guide helps here, 4/6 chance to hit is essentially bs4 1 shot). Eldar dont have a lot that can deal with AV13, as i said before, so wraithcannons are huge here.

Thank you. That's a better argument.