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Njal becoming the Rune Priest Supreme instead of being out shown by a normal Rune Priest, just sayin

 Anpu42 wrote:
My choice with the Storm Shield Wolf Guard Pack Leader: Terminato Armor, Storm Shield, Storm Bolter, Cyclone Missile Launcher and Mark of the Wolfen.

"Brother Gunnar, now we know you have issues with the curse of the Wulfen, you frequently break down in to a blubbering, hairy, violently angry mass of craziness... you probably want some nice simple to operate weapons now that you're being promoted to Wolf Guard, so what weapon would you like?"

Gunnar:
"Cyclone Missile Launcher, thanks"

Yeh I thought it was a weird combo but maybe in his meta he has trouble from melee units in his backfield a lot

 karlosovic wrote:
Yeh I thought it was a weird combo but maybe in his meta he has trouble from melee units in his backfield a lot

Sometimes, it mostly came out of some joke Models I made.
Wolf Guard: Termiator Armor, Assualt Cannon, Storm Shield, MotW...Rending at any Range.
Lone Wolf: Terminato Armor, MotW. I had in the running pose shooting two Storm Bolters in the Air, I just with I could have masterworked them to repriesent them.

Space wolves riding wolves, riding mammooths, riding krakens. That's what I'd like.

They really do need to nerf JoWW and Runic Weapons. That 24" crap has got to go, and besides if any group deserves that it would be BT not SW.

The rest of the codex is pretty strong so minor tweaks like getting points more inline with the rest of the marines stuff. Deffinitely more AA than just some troops or the long fangs with frakk missles.

I could see them taking Counter Attack away for some silly special rule though. Likely getting a flyer that looks like another variant of the Storm Talon as well.

 Watchersinthedark wrote:
They really do need to nerf JoWW and Runic Weapons. That 24" crap has got to go, and besides if any group deserves that it would be BT not SW.

The rest of the codex is pretty strong so minor tweaks like getting points more inline with the rest of the marines stuff. Deffinitely more AA than just some troops or the long fangs with frakk missles.

I could see them taking Counter Attack away for some silly special rule though. Likely getting a flyer that looks like another variant of the Storm Talon as well.

I have to disagree with the nerfing of the runic weapon. The total BS of Deny the Witch general rule is what is wrong. Once the runic staff is gone there will be no way to stop buffs from being casted and that is a huge problem with the game in general. The table wide anti psycher stuff needed a nerf, but 24" is not that unreasonable.

Counter charge will stay. Its been around forever and because its not automatic and on units that are LD8 or 9 makes it pretty fair. Its actually a very fluffy rule for SW. Its just that the core rule application of the ability was made stronger in 5th and 6th.

This might be a posble for this two Role Kit.

 Jayden63 wrote:

 Watchersinthedark wrote:
They really do need to nerf JoWW and Runic Weapons. That 24" crap has got to go, and besides if any group deserves that it would be BT not SW.

The rest of the codex is pretty strong so minor tweaks like getting points more inline with the rest of the marines stuff. Deffinitely more AA than just some troops or the long fangs with frakk missles.

I could see them taking Counter Attack away for some silly special rule though. Likely getting a flyer that looks like another variant of the Storm Talon as well.

I have to disagree with the nerfing of the runic weapon. The total BS of Deny the Witch general rule is what is wrong. Once the runic staff is gone there will be no way to stop buffs from being casted and that is a huge problem with the game in general. The table wide anti psycher stuff needed a nerf, but 24" is not that unreasonable.

Counter charge will stay. Its been around forever and because its not automatic and on units that are LD8 or 9 makes it pretty fair. Its actually a very fluffy rule for SW. Its just that the core rule application of the ability was made stronger in 5th and 6th.

So basically, only space wolves can deny it because why?

Its not that SW deserve it, its more along the lines that making everything suck equally is not necessarily good for the game. When things change in 7th edition, how long are the newest release codexs going to have to suffer due to using what is now universal wording, but will be inefficant when the "new" wording happens.

Its just part of the problem of having 2-3 core rule changes before any given codex gets redone.

Please ;-; I already have to shed a tear with every army denying my Pink Horror shots

Runic Weapons are amazing and all this silly psychic shenanigans needs to get bobbed on the head by a runic weapon.

Space Deserve it because of our dislike for Psykers(No arguing about the Rune Priest please, just making a point here) so we have one of the best means of denying. Hence the Wolf Tail and such.

if anything we need more just to be the one army that can just smack all these crazy Eldar trickery and book power stuff.

 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:
Njal becoming the Rune Priest Supreme instead of being out shown by a normal Rune Priest, just sayin

Umm he kind of already is, he just costs way too damn much.

Also, I agree that at present Space Wolves definitely deserve to lose Runic Weapons, although I also agree that having no way to stop psychic buffing is also a really bad game design decision (and makes Prescience even better than it already is). When Runic Weapons get nerfed, Eldar are only going to get stronger.

 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:
Runic Weapons are amazing and all this silly psychic shenanigans needs to get bobbed on the head by a runic weapon.

Space Deserve it because of our dislike for Psykers(No arguing about the Rune Priest please, just making a point here) so we have one of the best means of denying. Hence the Wolf Tail and such.

if anything we need more just to be the one army that can just smack all these crazy Eldar trickery and book power stuff.

Yet no other psykers can deny it despite others having full knowledge of the Warp (Chaos in general), being built with anti-chaos functions (Necrons), having a full out and out zeal and hatred (Black Templar and Sisters) and being trained to hunt down Witches (Witch Hunters and Inquisition)

Yeah no, Runic Weapons don't have the 'best means of denying,' and no they do not deserve it.

Runic weapons: Ignorance (of the warp) is bliss sometimes

Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Also, I agree that at present Space Wolves definitely deserve to lose Runic Weapons, although I also agree that having no way to stop psychic buffing is also a really bad game design decision (and makes Prescience even better than it already is). When Runic Weapons get nerfed, Eldar are only going to get stronger.

it's for balancing reasons. Because as you said it would just get worse without a means of facing. Hence Skyfire and all the anti air stuff. Hence the Stalker/Hunter for marines. There needs to be stuff to be a good counter otherwise you have something that just seems unstoppable or just gets more Godly. Heck imagine if there was none of the Skyfire and Interceptor stuff that helps manage flyers. it'd just be ridicules and feed more into well...that big mess of stuff. Not saying Wolves are the only ones with good anti Caster stuff. Just that they help in the effort and give some good defense for the army in their own respect with out crawling to allies for aid....so yeah the Runic Weapons getting nerfed would be pretty bad...Eldar and psykers as a whole would be all the more powerful.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Yet no other psykers can deny it despite others having full knowledge of the Warp (Chaos in general), being built with anti-chaos functions (Necrons), having a full out and out zeal and hatred (Black Templar and Sisters) and being trained to hunt down Witches (Witch Hunters and Inquisition)

Yeah no, Runic Weapons don't have the 'best means of denying,' and no they do not deserve it.

Oh? We faced The Thousand Sons. We marched upon their homeworld. Our Primarch showed this by having armour with runes to protect against such trickery along with having the Rune Priest crafted with the same runes to help protect his sons from the weird that was the means of the Thousand Son's power. You saying that the wolves don't deserve the Runic Weapon's power don't make sense because they too have proof in fluff of being able to combat these same foes.

The groups you brought up are amazing against Witches and Psykers as a whole yes but SW are also proficiant in fighting Psykers and Sorcerers so what's the problem with them having a good Anti-Psyker means as well when we have a piece of fluff/roots that would justify the reasoning for us having and keeping it? You're right SW don't have the best denying in the game, I was wrong about that and will own up to being wrong about that. But the fact you're saying we don't deserve the Runic Weapons is where I disagree because we have the means to justify why we have it. Especially since this edition is being strangled with Psykers who can cast a great deal of them, you need the balancing in those respects like how all the Skyfire and Interceptor stuff was shipped out in response to the flyer menace. it's justifiable and reasonable.

in the end Idk if others can do the 4+ denying bubble. Or if there is even better. I know Nids can make it hell for them but are you going to say they don't deserve to be able to do that either? Fact is there is reasoning for these things and reasoning for why they can do this stuff have what they have. Same for why they should keep it.

As for Njal yeah he needs a points drop...I'm just referring to how much I've seen people bash him. Seen people play him to a good extent, just hate all the bashing he gets....Heck I just ordered him because I think he's amazing and can do just as much damage and work as two....will I be wrong? Maybe because I'm not a know it all. But hey never know...

 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:


Point is SW earned/deserved/also worked to have a stern dislike of Psykers and Sorcery just as much as any of the others while still training to fight everything else.

But YOUR lightning-throwing crazies aren't psykers, they're shamans channeling the might of Fenris, right?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:


Point is SW earned/deserved/also worked to have a stern dislike of Psykers and Sorcery just as much as any of the others while still training to fight everything else.

But YOUR lightning-throwing crazies aren't psykers, they're shamans channeling the might of Fenris, right?

as far as your zealots and my zealots are concerned yes

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:


Point is SW earned/deserved/also worked to have a stern dislike of Psykers and Sorcery just as much as any of the others while still training to fight everything else.

But YOUR lightning-throwing crazies aren't psykers, they're shamans channeling the might of Fenris, right?

as far as your zealots and my zealots are concerned yes

An exalt for you and you my good sirs

Yes, they be the crazy old dogs who bark at the skys and planets to let them do crazy stuff. All from the planet. Yep, all from the plant

As for the Lone Wolves:
Somthing like the Saga's [the names are WIP]
>Into the Maw of the Beast: Favored Enemy MC's/T5
>Weight of Numbers: Favored Enemy Infantry
>The Beast Within: Can take a Thunderwolf Mount or Favored Enemy Beast
>Iron Curse: Favored Enemy Vehicles

Maybe make them a HQ Choice like TechMarines, one per HQ or 1-3 per Elite Slot

Most Imperial forces despise pyskers and no one else gets that crazy bubble. BT can't even take psykers because they hate them that much and yet no bubble for them. Tau have minimal presence in the warp and no antipsyker anything for them. Cron are freakin robots with only the spider with any anti psyker thing going for them. Since a lot of players don't have SW armies most of them don't have that bubble so in game terms it's not going to make Eldar any more powerful than they already are. Should their be a way for psykers of any variety to counter buffs as well? Yes, but that 24 inch 4+ craziness that also doubles as a powerful antidaemon weapon is really kind of crap.

Want to balance that out without making it just another psychic hood? Cool, then maybe reduce the range to 12" and make it a deny the witch type of roll.

 Watchersinthedark wrote:
Most Imperial forces despise pyskers and no one else gets that crazy bubble. BT can't even take psykers because they hate them that much and yet no bubble for them. Tau have minimal presence in the warp and no antipsyker anything for them. Cron are freakin robots with only the spider with any anti psyker thing going for them. Since a lot of players don't have SW armies most of them don't have that bubble so in game terms it's not going to make Eldar any more powerful than they already are. Should their be a way for psykers of any variety to counter buffs as well? Yes, but that 24 inch 4+ craziness that also doubles as a powerful antidaemon weapon is really kind of crap.

Want to balance that out without making it just another psychic hood? Cool, then maybe reduce the range to 12" and make it a deny the witch type of roll.

When the rune weapon was made, all daemons had EW, now that they don't (or at least I don't think they do) they are all susceptible to getting force weaponed to death by any psycher wielding a force weapon. So yeah, adding in the wounds on a 2+ was a nice bonus, but now its pretty irrelevant. You know what else is mostly irrelevant, the wounding on a 2+ as it was the only real anti daemon edge the weapon had, since many force weapons can now be mauls. +2 strength makes wounding most non MC daemons a 2+ endeavor and the AP doesn't matter since daemons all have inv saves.

Also thanks to the way Deny the wych works, now most anyone useful with a psychic hood works on a 5+. The runic staff is only 16% better at a 4+. So now it does work like a deny the wych roll as the whole process is no longer LD based.

I can possibly agree with dropping the range, but again, making things worse just so all things can be equally bad at this moment is just not a good game decision as you look to the future.

I totally Thought of something new!

Adding an ability to the Chooser of the Slain.

Grant the Rune Priest (and only the rune priest not the unit he is in) Interceptor is any deep striking units/etc arrive within 24" of the chooser marker and that the RP can draw line of sight on it (giving him the +1 BS as well). This of course means that to shoot his weapon he would have to be very close to the deep striking unit in question OR and it opens up a more practical (and a cooler image/fluffier thought) of using Living Lightning to down something rocketing towards the battle field after his familiar gives him the heads up something is coming down.

Any thoughts?

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:
I totally Thought of something new!

Adding an ability to the Chooser of the Slain.

Grant the Rune Priest (and only the rune priest not the unit he is in) Interceptor is any deep striking units/etc arrive within 24" of the chooser marker and that the RP can draw line of sight on it (giving him the +1 BS as well). This of course means that to shoot his weapon he would have to be very close to the deep striking unit in question OR and it opens up a more practical (and a cooler image/fluffier thought) of using Living Lightning to down something rocketing towards the battle field after his familiar gives him the heads up something is coming down.

Any thoughts?

I like that one.

 Anpu42 wrote:

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:
I totally Thought of something new!

Adding an ability to the Chooser of the Slain.

Grant the Rune Priest (and only the rune priest not the unit he is in) Interceptor is any deep striking units/etc arrive within 24" of the chooser marker and that the RP can draw line of sight on it (giving him the +1 BS as well). This of course means that to shoot his weapon he would have to be very close to the deep striking unit in question OR and it opens up a more practical (and a cooler image/fluffier thought) of using Living Lightning to down something rocketing towards the battle field after his familiar gives him the heads up something is coming down.

Any thoughts?

I like that one.

I'm glad, So the profile would read
(paraphrased for copyright issues)
Chooser of the Slain:
Placed anywhere on the baord before deployment, hostiles may no infiltrate/deepstrike within 18" of this model, grants +1 to BS of RP if can draw line of sight to the chooser and models he is firing upon. Confers the Infiltrate ability to the RP[only] if he can maintain LOS with the model and Deep striking unit. [still must be smaller than the RP model]

 Jayden63 wrote:

Also thanks to the way Deny the wych works, now most anyone useful with a psychic hood works on a 5+. The runic staff is only 16% better at a 4+. So now it does work like a deny the wych roll as the whole process is no longer LD based.

And the slight detail of it working on Blessings too. You know, the most powerful psychic powers that no one else gets to try to stop?

I can't wait for the Tyranid treatment of space puppies.

Say, Runic Weapon grants +1 to Deny the Witch and nothing else.
Jaws get a +6" range but only affecting one unit, and it gets a cover save. Rune Priest +40pts.
Longfangs nerfed to BS 3 but they get a new S5 Haywire blast gun with an 18" range.
Army wide special rule that force all units to go viking and move towards the closest enemy unit if they can, unless they pass a Ld test.
No Eternal Warrior for Lone Wolves.
Logan losing Saga of Majesty and Wolf Tooth Necklace and gets a +5 point increase for no reason.
New close combat Dreadnought with 2 WS3 attacks.
The loss of drop pods, and Njal.
Can't ally with anyone, because space vikings.

Prepare the ship.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:

Also thanks to the way Deny the wych works, now most anyone useful with a psychic hood works on a 5+. The runic staff is only 16% better at a 4+. So now it does work like a deny the wych roll as the whole process is no longer LD based.

And the slight detail of it working on Blessings too. You know, the most powerful psychic powers that no one else gets to try to stop?

Need to clear up a bit of what I said...along with add a thing or two:

1) We don't like em and we trained to fight them/counter them. Also it makes our army have something unique to us like so many others do. if every army could do the same thing then what would be the point of having different armies if they could all use the same trick? it isn't like eveyr army already doesn't share an abundance of SR and such. Yet each one adds stuff to them to make them unique for them. Runic Weapons is one thing that helps our Rune Priest stand out from a normal Liberian.

2) it's GW's fault for not allowing a means of countering Blessings. Tyranids are a bane for what they can do to psykers now. Want them to nerf/take away SitW because every army doesn't get to do that? Because BT don't do that? Because -insert other examples- don't get to do that?

Sorry for snapping on ya there man but your ripping on something that can actually be a good thing along with being something fluffy for an army. I understand it isn't fair that other armies don't get that but that's no real fault for SW. That ultimately goes to GW for not giving that to other armies but that doubles back to #1. You can fail a 4+. just like how it is possible to fail a 2+, 3+, 5+,6+ with another 5+ or so saves/rolls. You get an 1/2 chance to say no to something that has to be within 24". Most people know what the Rune Priest can do so anyone with sense will jsut have fun staying 25" or so away from that bubble. Even more so if he's moving the Rune Priest that close it's most likely going to get targeted for attacks and die. Especially with how things are shaping with all the dakka dakka armies out here now.

Ultimately your saying to remove something that isn't really so bad when you put into consideration how things are now.

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:
I totally Thought of something new!

Adding an ability to the Chooser of the Slain.

Grant the Rune Priest (and only the rune priest not the unit he is in) Interceptor is any deep striking units/etc arrive within 24" of the chooser marker and that the RP can draw line of sight on it (giving him the +1 BS as well). This of course means that to shoot his weapon he would have to be very close to the deep striking unit in question OR and it opens up a more practical (and a cooler image/fluffier thought) of using Living Lightning to down something rocketing towards the battle field after his familiar gives him the heads up something is coming down.

Any thoughts?

I like that one.

I'm glad, So the profile would read
(paraphrased for copyright issues)
Chooser of the Slain:
Placed anywhere on the baord before deployment, hostiles may no infiltrate/deepstrike within 18" of this model, grants +1 to BS of RP if can draw line of sight to the chooser and models he is firing upon. Confers the Infiltrate ability to the RP[only] if he can maintain LOS with the model and Deep striking unit. [still must be smaller than the RP model]

I love that! That sounds really cool

1) We don't like em and we trained to fight them/counter them. Also it makes our army have something unique to us like so many others do. if every army could do the same thing then what would be the point of having different armies if they could all use the same trick? it isn't like eveyr army already doesn't share an abundance of SR and such. Yet each one adds stuff to them to make them unique for them. Runic Weapons is one thing that helps our Rune Priest stand out from a normal Liberian.

Once again, I have provided armies with actual training to fight and counter them, even my CSM can't counter and they live in the Warp itself.

As for the Uniqueness, Runic Priests are still just librarians, DA don't get shenanigans for this, nor BA, and CSM sorcerer's only have ML3 to separate them.

I suppose we could make it so that a Runic Staff is 12" librarian hood.

2) it's GW's fault for not allowing a means of countering Blessings. Tyranids are a bane for what they can do to psykers now. Want them to nerf/take away SitW because every army doesn't get to do that? Because BT don't do that? Because -insert other examples- don't get to do that?

Because it makes sense for them to have that, compared to the Rune Priests, who already have that in their talismans (I suppose it should grant adamantium will now)

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Once again, I have provided armies with actual training to fight and counter them, even my CSM can't counter and they live in the Warp itself.

As for the Uniqueness, Runic Priests are still just librarians, DA don't get shenanigans for this, nor BA, and CSM sorcerer's only have ML3 to separate them.

I suppose we could make it so that a Runic Staff is 12" librarian hood.

Again, we have the fluff and reasoning for why we have such things. I've stated this already. Gw's the one who didn't give the aforementioned armies the bubble/denial power that the RUnic Weapon has. But then again they have very nasty anti-psyker tools too. Every one of those armies has their own means of fighting. Making them all the same takes away the flavor. Truth be told from all this I feel as though that you may be a lover of psychic powers and just hate it when the SW player goes 4+ denial and makes the roll. Which again, it's a 4+. A 50/50 chance. it's not an auto stop so why hate it so much? it's not like it's a 2+ denial which even then 2+ rolls can be failed but are, technically, less likely to fail.

Shortening the range is how far I'd say to take it if people feel so strongly about it. Keep the standard 4+ but shorten it's bubble if that's what'll make some people happy while others remain agitated about it.

Also take away runic weapons and all that makes a Rune Priest stand out is his little bird/chooser of the slain which I think other Liberians can choose something like it. Oh wait...Servo Skulls right.
Why is it so bad for a Rune Priest to have these things? Oh because the other marines don't? Because they aren't like every other marine out there? CSM sorcerer's are so in touched with the Warp it's manifested as their increased mastery level. Not to mention they do have those familiars if I'm right. We have A weapon. A weapon that, is no better then any other Liberian's weapon except it has one/two additions. All this hate acts as if it's Titan or something so absolutely game changing that it spells automatic win for SW...

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Because it makes sense for them to have that, compared to the Rune Priests, who already have that in their talismans (I suppose it should grant adamantium will now)

The Talisman is only used when a power targets the wearer and his unit. Also how doesn't it make sense for us to have Psyker nerfing powers when, as I've already stated, we've fought THE strongest/most potent psyker legion? When our Primarch never trusted such things as psykers and sorcery and had things MADE to combat them?