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And Khorne hates psykers to the end of the worlds, Tzeentch is the patron of psykers, Nids the Shadow, and Eldar the race of psykers.

Wait isn't the talisman a straight up 4+ deny everything around them? That or my friend deserves being slapped because he kept on bragging about how he is going to just deny all of my spells over and over (Why did they make pink horror guns spells)

Being petty: nerfs. Lots of nerfs.

Anti-Psyker does seem a specialty of the Wolves based on the last codex TBH. They had wargear that gave characters the equivalent of Deny the Witch an edition before it became a basic ability of all units and armour that provides an invulnerable save against only Psychic powers.

I expect we'll see the Talismans updated which makes the added boost of the Rune Staff not as important to keeping the Space Wolves in the anti-Psyker business that they are definitely in. It'd be nice for it to stay capable of negating blessings and the like, but I doubt that it'll stay much more potent than the Psychic Hood given most other abilities to interfere with a non-offensive psychic ability seem to have taken a hit anyway. The fact we can have 4 in a single detachment should do for making it pretty hard for Psykers to lay a hurting on the Wolves directly.

I'm personally interested in seeing what they do with Blood/Sky/Swift Claws to make them attractive choices without just tossing a nerf at Grey Hunters.

I'd also like to see them de-clutter the Elite slot by making Wolf Guard work kinda like a Command Squad or Royal Court, a 1 per HQ choice unit sort of thing. I'd like Iron Priests to go that route too (and make their Servitors and Cyberwolves a seperate purchasable unit like you see wih Techmarines). Lone Wolves I'd like a 0-1 restriction on (won't happen) or made into an HQ choice as well, just to keep their numbers down. I doubt we'd get all three moved out of elites, but one or two would make a lot of room for Dreads or Scouts in lists, which fits more in line with the way I think wolves are supposed to be.

Again, we have the fluff and reasoning for why we have such things. I've stated this already. Gw's the one who didn't give the aforementioned armies the bubble/denial power that the RUnic Weapon has. But then again they have very nasty anti-psyker tools too. Every one of those armies has their own means of fighting. Making them all the same takes away the flavor. Truth be told from all this I feel as though that you may be a lover of psychic powers and just hate it when the SW player goes 4+ denial and makes the roll. Which again, it's a 4+. A 50/50 chance. it's not an auto stop so why hate it so much? it's not like it's a 2+ denial which even then 2+ rolls can be failed but are, technically, less likely to fail.

Because lets face it, it makes the SW even better at doing things other armies should be capable of, I feel you are a SW player who really wants to be special, unique, and stronger then normal SM armies.

Also take away runic weapons and all that makes a Rune Priest stand out is his little bird/chooser of the slain which I think other Liberians can choose something like it. Oh wait...Servo Skulls right.

Because they aren't like every other marine out there?

So it's even more special then Librarians, why is the Runic one so important then?

You get:

Best Anti-Psyker Defense
Servo Skull types
A Special Lore
Better Upgrades.

You are already better then the basic librarian, not just unique, but far better.

A weapon that, is no better then any other Liberian's weapon except it has one/two additions.

A weapon that sets the SW rune priest far above nearly every other psyker ingame.

All this hate acts as if it's Titan or something so absolutely game changing that it spells automatic win for SW...

I'm pretty sure Necrons and Tyranids still hate him for JOTWW.

Also how doesn't it make sense for us to have Psyker nerfing powers when, as I've already stated, we've fought THE strongest/most potent psyker legion? When our Primarch never trusted such things as psykers and sorcery and had things MADE to combat them?

Lots of chapters have fought the Thousand Sons, even after their power boost thanks to the Rubric. Space Wolves do not specifically train themselves to take on psykers like Sisters of Battle, Black Templars, and Witch Hunters.

 Wolf Lord Kevin wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:

Also thanks to the way Deny the wych works, now most anyone useful with a psychic hood works on a 5+. The runic staff is only 16% better at a 4+. So now it does work like a deny the wych roll as the whole process is no longer LD based.

And the slight detail of it working on Blessings too. You know, the most powerful psychic powers that no one else gets to try to stop?

Need to clear up a bit of what I said...along with add a thing or two:

1) We don't like em and we trained to fight them/counter them. Also it makes our army have something unique to us like so many others do. if every army could do the same thing then what would be the point of having different armies if they could all use the same trick? it isn't like eveyr army already doesn't share an abundance of SR and such. Yet each one adds stuff to them to make them unique for them. Runic Weapons is one thing that helps our Rune Priest stand out from a normal Liberian.

2) it's GW's fault for not allowing a means of countering Blessings. Tyranids are a bane for what they can do to psykers now. Want them to nerf/take away SitW because every army doesn't get to do that? Because BT don't do that? Because -insert other examples- don't get to do that?

No, because Space Wolves are already Space Marines +1 on way too many fronts. You want to be unique you have to actually accept some drawbacks that actually matter (so not "no heavy weapons on Troops and no inability to take useless meatshields on Long Fangs").

All of this railing against the Rune Priest:
We have a 24” Defense against Psykers: One of the few Armies that can shut down Psykers, so that makes us OP when there are so many armies out there that can make the Rune Priest a waist of time vs. Orks, Imperial Guard, Tau, or any other army that chooses not to field a Psyker. Is probably going to change with the now Codex.

The Rune Weapon: A glorified Force Sword, it does not help vs. Terminators and a lot of MC's like Riptides. Is probably going to change with the now Codex.

Jaws of the World Wolf” I have used it maybe 3-4 times and that is with Njal. I also have to give it up to gain Divination Powers. Yes it is great in many situations, but I is guaranteed to be one of the Powers that will go away or change.

 Anpu42 wrote:
All of this railing against the Rune Priest:
We have a 24” Defense against Psykers: One of the few Armies that can shut down Psykers, so that makes us OP when there are so many armies out there that can make the Rune Priest a waist of time vs. Orks, Imperial Guard, Tau, or any other army that chooses not to field a Psyker. Is probably going to change with the now Codex.

Yeah, then you're just stuck with 4 Divination Psykers per Force Org. Woe is you!

 Anpu42 wrote:
All of this railing against the Rune Priest:
We have a 24” Defense against Psykers: One of the few Armies that can shut down Psykers, so that makes us OP when there are so many armies out there that can make the Rune Priest a waist of time vs. Orks, Imperial Guard, Tau, or any other army that chooses not to field a Psyker. Is probably going to change with the now Codex.

The Rune Weapon: A glorified Force Sword, it does not help vs. Terminators and a lot of MC's like Riptides. Is probably going to change with the now Codex.

Jaws of the World Wolf” I have used it maybe 3-4 times and that is with Njal. I also have to give it up to gain Divination Powers. Yes it is great in many situations, but I is guaranteed to be one of the Powers that will go away or change.

Are you serious with these arguments? These are your arguments?

You can make the Rune Weapon an axe to deal with terminators, and of course it's still a better force weapon.

The first doesn't matter because you're still better then SM at it, what if they face someone who has psykers? You still get good psyker spells against them without paying much.

You can even take more HQ's then anyone else, it's not like SW are missing much 'unique' content to set them apart.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


You can make the Rune Weapon an axe to deal with terminators, and of course it's still a better force weapon.

Always AP3 due to the special rules against Daemons (Unusual Force Weapon).

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


You can make the Rune Weapon an axe to deal with terminators, and of course it's still a better force weapon.

Always AP3 due to the special rules against Daemons (Unusual Force Weapon).

..Wonder if my opponent knew that, hm.

Good to know though.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
All of this railing against the Rune Priest:
We have a 24” Defense against Psykers: One of the few Armies that can shut down Psykers, so that makes us OP when there are so many armies out there that can make the Rune Priest a waist of time vs. Orks, Imperial Guard, Tau, or any other army that chooses not to field a Psyker. Is probably going to change with the now Codex.

Yeah, then you're just stuck with 4 Divination Psykers per Force Org. Woe is you!

There there is not JotWW is there?

 Anpu42 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
All of this railing against the Rune Priest:
We have a 24” Defense against Psykers: One of the few Armies that can shut down Psykers, so that makes us OP when there are so many armies out there that can make the Rune Priest a waist of time vs. Orks, Imperial Guard, Tau, or any other army that chooses not to field a Psyker. Is probably going to change with the now Codex.

Yeah, then you're just stuck with 4 Divination Psykers per Force Org. Woe is you!

There there is not JotWW is there?

If your not fighting a low I army (which there are plenty of), then you have the versatility to take them on don't you?

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
All of this railing against the Rune Priest:
We have a 24” Defense against Psykers: One of the few Armies that can shut down Psykers, so that makes us OP when there are so many armies out there that can make the Rune Priest a waist of time vs. Orks, Imperial Guard, Tau, or any other army that chooses not to field a Psyker. Is probably going to change with the now Codex.

Yeah, then you're just stuck with 4 Divination Psykers per Force Org. Woe is you!

There there is not JotWW is there?

If your not fighting a low I army (which there are plenty of), then you have the versatility to take them on don't you?

To be honest, I normaly only take one Rune priest, but the we are not big on the "Turny Level Combat List". We tend to play Fluffy List emphasising just having fun.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
All of this railing against the Rune Priest:
We have a 24” Defense against Psykers: One of the few Armies that can shut down Psykers, so that makes us OP when there are so many armies out there that can make the Rune Priest a waist of time vs. Orks, Imperial Guard, Tau, or any other army that chooses not to field a Psyker. Is probably going to change with the now Codex.

Yeah, then you're just stuck with 4 Divination Psykers per Force Org. Woe is you!

There there is not JotWW is there?

If your not fighting a low I army (which there are plenty of), then you have the versatility to take them on don't you?

To be honest, I normaly only take one Rune priest, but the we are not big on the "Turny Level Combat List". We tend to play Fluffy List emphasising just having fun.

That may explain much then, considering most are the RP, Longfang, GH, with sides.

Space Wolves are already the most diverse of all the armies, with only Grey Knights ahead of them, losing one single thing wont change them much.

My normal starting of a List is"
Rune Piest, Master of Runes (Dicination
Long Fangs with 1x Heavy Bolrer, 2x Las-Cannon and 2x Missile Launchers

Scout Scout, Bolters, 2x Plasma Pistols, MotW

2x Grey Hunters, 2x Plasma Guns, Plasma Pistol, Banner, MotW and Power Fist

3x Land Speeder Typhons.

It usaly come out to about 1,300 and then start adding thing.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Because lets face it, it makes the SW even better at doing things other armies should be capable of, I feel you are a SW player who really wants to be special, unique, and stronger then normal SM armies.

I will admit my first loyalty is to the Space Wolves. I'll openly say that right now. Should it take away from my points? No because I do also enjoy other armies and find them amazing in their own respects that help them stand on their own. if having that 4+ denial makes them better then other armies....what exactly are you trying to say about other armies then? You think they are weaker? inferior because they don't get something that only benefits against psykers and deamons? I wonder what Tau, Necrons, IG and Orks have to say about this...Well Nids too I suppose...yeah them too. Oh! What about BT? Yeah I think they have something to say...here is probably what it sounds like:

Tau: -insert gun sounds of Tau as they blast people off the board-
Orks: WAAAAAAAGH!!!!!
Necrons: -They're too cool to waste words upon the furry human that is waving a stick around-
IG: FIRE FIRE FIRE! OPEN FIRE MEN! WE WILL HOLD THIS LINE! or what ever epic/amazing battle cry those bunch of badasses scream out
Nids: Om nom nom nom nom
BT: ...they're just chopping us in half/blasting us away with flyers and other stuff while murdering our characters in challenges because they don't need psykers to be amazing.

Point: a 4+ Psyker denial only works against psykers. Against anything else...congrats you're just a guy with a force weapon.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:So it's even more special then Librarians, why is the Runic one so important then?

You get:

Best Anti-Psyker Defense
Servo Skull types
A Special Lore
Better Upgrades.

You are already better then the basic librarian, not just unique, but far better.

Again...just the one ability which helps combat psykers(which again need to be on the field other wise you just have, as aforementioned, a force weapon)
Also I'm pretty sure it was either you or someone else who said they don't have the best anti-psyker defense? Going back on that claim now? Liberians and Rune Priest have a servo skull effectively. As for upgrades really isn't much. Both can go into Termi armour along with having relatively the same options. if you're talking about the Wolftooth Necklace or the Wolf Tail Talisman those two hardly qualify as a major game changer when, again, they are only effective/come into play if the moment fits. One for CC the other if targeted. Difference. Do normal Liberians pay to become lv2 casters? if so then we share that. if not then there is a con right there/one other thing that sets them apart.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

A weapon that sets the SW rune priest far above nearly every other psyker ingame.

Tell that to Eldar who can have more psykers then a rune priest can shake his staff at.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:I'm pretty sure Necrons and Tyranids still hate him for JOTWW.

if it's I5 + they just laugh at it for the Nids side. While yes Carnifexs and other slow models do fall. As for Necrons I believe they still get their reanimation Protocol since now it's that you put a counter instead of leaving the models. I know that's how it now works for Celestine along with Necrons when it comes to Luka's little trick. I could be wrong. FAQ wasn't really specific on that one. Besides you need line of sight along with being able to see the first model. Also it's not like a template, it's a hair line if anything which, again, you need line of sight and will only really hit what ever the straight, 24" line can cross over. So yeah...not as bad since most people play armies with decent Initiative. Or just sit back and dakka...either or really.

ZebioLizard2 wrote:Lots of chapters have fought the Thousand Sons, even after their power boost thanks to the Rubric. Space Wolves do not specifically train themselves to take on psykers like Sisters of Battle, Black Templars, and Witch Hunters.

Our Rune Priest craft and train themselves to protect their brothers from the evils of the Warp. Crafting those runes and talismans for the sole purpose of warding away the influences it has along with the creations/manifestions those who use it form. Like BT, SoB and WH we craft our own means of combating them. Well...those paranoid old shamens of ours do. The rest of us get ready to bring the fight to our foes while the shamens ward away the evils.

We were the ones SENT/TASKED with bringing them in. Yet our PRIMARCH was the one who instructed us to craft runes of warding. Black Templars hate psykers with a passion that burns to reveal itself as them shunning Liberians from their own chapter. Witch Hunters and Sisters have their hoods and special bolters/crossbows(iirc form a friend who told me a bit about them) that can wreck a model with the psyker rule. Again, all because they don't get a 24" bubble doesn't mean they are bad at their job. When it comes to a fluff discussion they could probably verbally destroy a rune priest with their know how. Yet the Rune Priest will growl and say how the fancy runes on his armour and weapon along with the blessed piece of wolf fetish hanging off of him wards away such things because he believes them to(which is the core power of a psyker/psychic potency in 40K). This is why it works. This is why we have it. Because we are that superstitious that, like Orks, we believe hard enough into the runes that they actually manifest these powers.

Also I don't think Magnus took his sons to those other armies' planet/home/base now did they? The feud between the Sons of Russ and the Sons of Magnus is deep. You can't have one without the other. Other Armies may fight them...we're the ones they hate and we hate them just as much to the point we'd raze their new home/base/world if given the split second of a chance to. it's be Prospero all over again...this time with even more hatred then there was that fateful day.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
No, because Space Wolves are already Space Marines +1 on way too many fronts. You want to be unique you have to actually accept some drawbacks that actually matter (so not "no heavy weapons on Troops and no inability to take useless meatshields on Long Fangs").

Things SW don't get that SM get:
1.We can't take flyers save the Forge World/Escalation ones which will drain a great deal of pts
2.we can't take the Mortis Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought
3.Our Scouts are troops. Albeit better in comparison except the fact they can't hold objectives and can't be taken as troops(said it twice to make sure it's take into account)
4.Other marines can take bikes as troops for cheaper. Wanna know how we can? Have to have Logan and have over costed Wolf Guard on em. Too much points for something that won't be as effective when compared to WS and RW.
5.Jump Packs as troops which, like #4 relies on Logan and over costing Wolf Guard and over all taking a huge chunk out of the army when others can do it better.
6.We can't take extra bodies for our Long Fangs like regular Devastators can. Yes we get one more heavy weapon...but the unit will/can be blasted away and is very squishy.
7.We can't take heavy weapons for our GH. A heavy weapon is something that makes Tactical Squads very good because they can use them. Having that heavy weapon is very good and our guys don't have them.
8.Mastery Level 3 Psyker. I don't really care but eh it's one thing.
9.Flakk Missiles(for now)
Lastly number ten because this is starting to get long: Iron Clad Dreadnoughts, the scout version of the Land Speeder, Hunter/Stalker(for now. Or they will keep that as a Marine unique thing), Grave Weapons(I hope we don't get them personally. Too gimmicky. Powerful yes. But just eh to be honest) and all the crazy relics.

Summary while some of these things can change in the next dex the list stands as it is right now. I no doubt missed somethings but eh Idc. The point still stands that there are far more things that make Marines special/awesome that SW aren't just them +1. Because when you really look at the SM codex we're blow them if anything when it comes to those things. So us keeping some of the things we have isn't making us better. it's keeping us fairly leveled with our brother marines.

We know of drawbacks. We have dealt with them as new stuff has been released. Neutering us further isn't good and truth be told is uncalled for really.

I will admit my first loyalty is to the Space Wolves. I'll openly say that right now. Should it take away from my points? No because I do also enjoy other armies and find them amazing in their own respects that help them stand on their own. if having that 4+ denial makes them better then other armies....what exactly are you trying to say about other armies then? You think they are weaker? inferior because they don't get something that only benefits against psykers and deamons? I wonder what Tau, Necrons, IG and Orks have to say about this...Well Nids too I suppose...yeah them too. Oh! What about BT? Yeah I think they have something to say...here is probably what it sounds like:


Point: a 4+ Psyker denial only works against psykers. Against anything else...congrats you're just a guy with a force weapon.

That strawman has been tried and true, so it doesn't work on units without psykers? Gasp! I suppose that invalidates the very same Psychic Hood that Librarians get, because that's now effectively null..But wait! The runic weapon is still far better when fighting psykers! (Which taudar usually do have)

The weapon is the best thing against psykers in the entire game, using things that aren't effective is like trying to compare the Meltagun at killing hordes of Ork Boyz, it's a bad comparison, and effectively a false strawman.

Do normal Liberians pay to become lv2 casters? if so then we share that. if not then there is a con right there/one other thing that sets them apart.

They do.

Again...just the one ability which helps combat psykers(which again need to be on the field other wise you just have, as aforementioned, a force weapon)

Still bad comparison.

Also I'm pretty sure it was either you or someone else who said they don't have the best anti-psyker defense? Going back on that claim now?

Not me.

Liberians and Rune Priest have a servo skull effectively. As for upgrades really isn't much. Both can go into Termi armour along with having relatively the same options. if you're talking about the Wolftooth Necklace or the Wolf Tail Talisman those two hardly qualify as a major game changer when, again, they are only effective/come into play if the moment fits. One for CC the other if targeted. Difference..

You can take:

Runic Armor
Chooser of the Slain
Wolf-Tail
Wolf-Tooth
Saga of the Beastslayer/Warrior born.
Their own lore
The best lore: Divination.

They make the Rune Priest far more unique then any other Librarian.

Tell that to Eldar who can have more psykers then a rune priest can shake his staff at.

Tell that to the anyone who can only have 2 HQ's in general.

Besides you need line of sight along with being able to see the first model. Also it's not like a template, it's a hair line if anything which, again, you need line of sight and will only really hit what ever the straight, 24" line can cross over. So yeah...not as bad since most people play armies with decent Initiative. Or just sit back and dakka...either or really.

This didn't really help most people when it killed entire armies back in the day.

Our Rune Priest craft and train themselves to protect their brothers from the evils of the Warp. Crafting those runes and talismans for the sole purpose of warding away the influences it has along with the creations/manifestions those who use it form. Like BT, SoB and WH we craft our own means of combating them. Well...those paranoid old shamens of ours do. The rest of us get ready to bring the fight to our foes while the shamens ward away the evils.

Yet those Shamans seem far more effective then those specifically trained to murder Psykers, strange that for people who believe they don't call from the warp.

Again, all because they don't get a 24" bubble doesn't mean they are bad at their job.

A 24" bubble that stops blessings, yes it does indeed mean they are bad at their job.

This is why it works. This is why we have it. Because we are that superstitious that, like Orks, we believe hard enough into the runes that they actually manifest these powers.

Yet the Sisters of Battle's true faith and belief that can manifest literal powers cannot stop a psyker.

1.We can't take flyers save the Forge World/Escalation ones which will drain a great deal of pts

You can with the Stormtalon/stormraven dataslate.

2.we can't take the Mortis Contemptor Pattern Dreadnought

You get to use your own special one and the base one instead.

3.Our Scouts are troops. Albeit better in comparison except the fact they can't hold objectives and can't be taken as troops(said it twice to make sure it's take into account)

Elites, and scouts aren't used for SM either.

4.Other marines can take bikes as troops for cheaper. Wanna know how we can? Have to have Logan and have over costed Wolf Guard on em. Too much points for something that won't be as effective when compared to WS and RW.

Because they do need something to call their own afterall, can't have tons of Blood items or Angel without sounding pretty stupid.

5.Jump Packs as troops which, like #4 relies on Logan and over costing Wolf Guard and over all taking a huge chunk out of the army when others can do it better.

Which only BA can do.

6.We can't take extra bodies for our Long Fangs like regular Devastators can. Yes we get one more heavy weapon...but the unit will/can be blasted away and is very squishy.

Since you mentioned power level, nobody takes abletive wounds, and you get the maximum firepower out of it due to splitfire.

7.We can't take heavy weapons for our GH. A heavy weapon is something that makes Tactical Squads very good because they can use them. Having that heavy weapon is very good and our guys don't have them.

AHAHAHAHAHAHA. Really now, Tactical squads are piss and everyone knows it, the diluted fact that they are schizophrenic in duty is one of the things that HURTS them. Your guys are mid-range weapon users that know their purpose, is clearcut, and generally can do their job very effectively. I honestly cannot believe you stated this at all.

8.Mastery Level 3 Psyker. I don't really care but eh it's one thing.

Only on SC's, which I will admit Tigurius is a bonus for UM users.

9.Flakk Missiles(for now)

Are horrible, and nobody honestly uses them.

Iron Clad Dreadnoughts,

Hardly used.

the scout version of the Land Speeder

Is nice, needs more use.

Hunter/Stalker(for now. Or they will keep that as a Marine unique thing),

Not used, despite being unique.

Grave Weapons(I hope we don't get them personally. Too gimmicky. Powerful yes

Okayish, thanks to nids they've fallen out of favor kinda.

and all the crazy relics.

Which you'll likely get, but you still have all your own unique things.

Because when you really look at the SM codex we're blow them if anything when it comes to those things. So us keeping some of the things we have isn't making us better. it's keeping us fairly leveled with our brother marines.

The only things I can really say that SM outdo you as is Bikersquads, you have far more effective troops.

Can we keep the Whining about the fact we got a good codex. That makes ONE Marine Codex thar is good [If you beliveve the Internet].
Yes can get a Level 2 Rune Preist, but the level cost twice as much for the normal Marine Librarian.
Everything you said nobody uses I have seen on List everyehere on Dakka.

Dear god! this is absurd, so the wolve's have the option to cause a kink of taudar? The current internet favorite list for being a WAAC cheese player? Oh dear god this is such a fething travesty! Lets burn our codecies at once!

I get that some of the whining posts before this were joking, but really all of this hate because we have a decent codex that has maintained its place (for some bits) in the Meta of 6th edition?

For those of you complaining, you are the player's who have decided before a game has started if you lost because of one or two combos that work well. That is part of the fun, the strategy of throwing a wrench into the gears of someone's 'perfect combo' if you cant find fun in the game as it is and develop and play around "A weapon that sets the SW run priest far above nearly every other psyker ingame" it is a "Weapon" with a 24" range, if you are any army you have weapons that have a greater range than 24" or vehicles with a greater range, how hard is it to shoot someone outside that?

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:
Dear god! this is absurd, so the wolve's have the option to cause a kink of taudar? The current internet favorite list for being a WAAC cheese player? Oh dear god this is such a fething travesty! Lets burn our codecies at once!

I get that some of the whining posts before this were joking, but really all of this hate because we have a decent codex that has maintained its place (for some bits) in the Meta of 6th edition?

For those of you complaining, you are the player's who have decided before a game has started if you lost because of one or two combos that work well. That is part of the fun, the strategy of throwing a wrench into the gears of someone's 'perfect combo' if you cant find fun in the game as it is and develop and play around "A weapon that sets the SW run priest far above nearly every other psyker ingame" it is a "Weapon" with a 24" range, if you are any army you have weapons that have a greater range than 24" or vehicles with a greater range, how hard is it to shoot someone outside that?

Except however that isn't the issue at all, it's "Why do the SW get to keep something every codex has lost while demanding more while they are already quite unique?"

The beginning post pretty much has a saga for everything, from invalidating all other SM codex's to becoming even far more OP.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Kavik_Whitescar wrote:
Dear god! this is absurd, so the wolve's have the option to cause a kink of taudar? The current internet favorite list for being a WAAC cheese player? Oh dear god this is such a fething travesty! Lets burn our codecies at once!

I get that some of the whining posts before this were joking, but really all of this hate because we have a decent codex that has maintained its place (for some bits) in the Meta of 6th edition?

For those of you complaining, you are the player's who have decided before a game has started if you lost because of one or two combos that work well. That is part of the fun, the strategy of throwing a wrench into the gears of someone's 'perfect combo' if you cant find fun in the game as it is and develop and play around "A weapon that sets the SW run priest far above nearly every other psyker ingame" it is a "Weapon" with a 24" range, if you are any army you have weapons that have a greater range than 24" or vehicles with a greater range, how hard is it to shoot someone outside that?

Except however that isn't the issue at all, it's "Why do the SW get to keep something every codex has lost while demanding more while they are already quite unique?"

The beginning post pretty much has a saga for everything, from invalidating all other SM codex's to becoming even far more OP.

These are all fluff based wish lists....if you take that as a "we deserve this" then that is your issue.

The majority of the posts wishlisting things in have been fairly reasonable, all in all it is up to GW to make the final decsion, and while we would all love for them to see a thread like this, see some okay ideas and use them! I dont think it is too much to have fluffy rules that keep SW competitive in todays Meta beyond one or two specific characters. I can dream up a few really nasty lists using SW combos that are better suited for different armies, half of it is to win, the other half is for the fun and challenge I will be bringing to my opponent.

I would love to see rivalry rules between Thousand sons, Dark Angels and the Inquisition and SW from both sides, but it wont happen really, the only thing we deserve is a few point reductions to keep up with 6th and maybe making our shooting abilities a smidge better or cheaper again to keep up with the Meta.

I would love to see rivalry rules between Thousand sons, Dark Angels and the Inquisition and SW from both sides, but it wont happen really, the only thing we deserve is a few point reductions to keep up with 6th and maybe making our shooting abilities a smidge better or cheaper again to keep up with the Meta.

Normally I'd say that'd never happen for the first, but we finally are seeing specific hatreds coming forth.

Like Keeper of Secrets against Elder of both types.

Pedro/Farsight against orks.

Eldar against MoS/DoS units (Both hatred and fear!)


Now if we ever see a new Thousand sons book that makes them WORTH using, we might see that happen.

Though I agree with that at the end, which I don't mind. Though I am annoyed by a few things that SW get's that should be more common (Though I'm not exactly seeking a return to 4th edition hoods or Runes mind you..Just a 6"-12" protection bubble, I wouldn't even mind runic staff if psychic hoods did the things they used to.)

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I would love to see rivalry rules between Thousand sons, Dark Angels and the Inquisition and SW from both sides, but it wont happen really, the only thing we deserve is a few point reductions to keep up with 6th and maybe making our shooting abilities a smidge better or cheaper again to keep up with the Meta.

Normally I'd say that'd never happen for the first, but we finally are seeing specific hatreds coming forth.

Like Keeper of Secrets against Elder of both types.

Pedro/Farsight against orks.

Eldar against MoS/DoS units (Both hatred and fear!)


Now if we ever see a new Thousand sons book that makes them WORTH using, we might see that happen.

Though I agree with that at the end, which I don't mind. Though I am annoyed by a few things that SW get's that should be more common (Though I'm not exactly seeking a return to 4th edition hoods or Runes mind you..Just a 6"-12" protection bubble, I wouldn't even mind runic staff if psychic hoods did the things they used to.)

It seems that GW has taken alot of fun out of playing many armies now by grouping them all together and making an obvious best of the group (white scars) as much as I would love to see each Chaos god get a Dex and some nifty stuff, but they probably wont (SAD)

What I want MOST from a Space Wolves codex is for it to take a backseat, since the current codex is still perfectly good.

That being said, I don't currently play Wolves. They are on my 'to do' list. If Bjorn the Fell-Handed gets dropped from the army (unlikely) then I will completely lose interest in them.

If I'm wishlisting, I'd like units and rules that synergize well with the other armies I have.

 Jimsolo wrote:
What I want MOST from a Space Wolves codex is for it to take a backseat, since the current codex is still perfectly good.

That being said, I don't currently play Wolves. They are on my 'to do' list. If Bjorn the Fell-Handed gets dropped from the army (unlikely) then I will completely lose interest in them.

If I'm wishlisting, I'd like units and rules that synergize well with the other armies I have.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/461332.page


Not only is this worth the read (Thanks anpu42) but it will give you a better idea how to synergize our special characters with your armies (as long as they are BB it seems)

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Okay things got pretty long and a bit annoying to try a quote, response etc. So for both sakes just gonna put it as a simple quote like this because I'd rather not spend almost an hour sorting through each line etc. Now will handle this reply in numerical order from how you placed your responses to me though I will try to have them tackle same topic bullets to save space.

Now then:

First the Rune Priest specific : it's true none the less. While yes if there is a psyker it will be very useful when they appear. But the problem with it is that while, as the example you gave, a Melta can pop just about anything even if there isn't much armour, a Runic Weapon is only special because of the 24" bubble along with wounding Daemons on a 2+. After that it's just a force weapon(which is even stated in it's section within the codex). You say it's false to try and do a comparison like that, but how so when you really look at it? Some other weapons can work effectively even if the thing they would, otherwise be especially effective at aren't in large numbers. A flamer can still do damage even against a none horde army. A chainfist can still rip apart things even if the enemy armour is low. if there is no daemon or psychic powers going off you have basically a normal Liberian with a normal force weapon.

As for upgrades if, runic armour is basically artificer armour with a 5+ inv against psychic wounds. I think normal libreians can take artificer armour I believe. if not then okay this point here is invalid. I already said my piece regarding the wolf fetish gear. While one saga can be useful outside of CC the other one is limited to only CC. As for Divination you have a big character, who, costs less then our big shamen Njal, who is one higher mastery level then him, who can also reroll for his psychic powers and have access to Divination.

Yes they do make our Rune Priest unique. Which, since you brought that point up...why do you want to take away one of the things that makes the unique so bad? You, as I said before, are acting as if the weapon insures victory when it really doesn't. You act as if the 24" bubble is actually 48". What it boils down to is your over hyping/over exaggerating the weapon to try and give a reason for it be removed/nerfed when really it isn't so bad. Especially for experienced players who know how to avoid it. it's not a 2+ denial it's a 4+. Yet you're acting as if it is.

As for the mention of how they are still more effective then BT, SoB and WH...Training to kill is/could, in theory, be argued that it's not the same as stopping what comes from it. They have means of killing Psykers, Witches and Sorcerers dead yes. The Rune Priest craft things to ward away what they summon/form. Outside of simply warding away the powers they don't gain a bonus for fighting them initially like BT, SoB and WH do. All 3 can wreck/break the rune etched weapon over the Rune Priest's head when he tries to do that stuff towards them. But the point still remains that they are still more honed in the murdering of them. SoB do have their faith and belief yes. So do Rune Priest/The Wolves in what their stuff does. it's the manifestation that you mentioned their faith can do is what the Rune Priest try to wave away. Both believe in protecting their brothers and sisters from such things. it's just that their beliefs manifest in different ways unique to their own ways. They can stop a psyker, in their own unique way. SoB have their own means, SW have their own means.

I read the fact you would like it to be shortened in range. I can respect that as I said. if there had to be a forced change i'd rather them did a shortening of range rather then outright removing it. I understand that when you do a side by side comparison to other Liberians and fighters of the Warp energies it isn't fair this one group gets something you'd think they would all have. But it does go to some level of reasoning for why they do have it and why others don't. You need to also look at it in the sense, that it's what makes them unique and prove to be beneficial to their brothers and sisters of other marines/loyalist forces. They made them the way they are so that they can also, not only help their own chapter, but to back other chapters as well. it's one big piece of synergy when the armies are together. So why take that away? You're telling me you wouldn't want a SW Rune Priest backing you up against Daemons and Psychic powers?


Secondly/partially really the thing about JotWW: You can deny it now on a 6+ thanks to deny the witch. Now, thanks to the FAQ it's now very specific especially with the fact it's a thin straight line. While I'm sure it was amazing before hand, now it's not as potent. Since things like Eldar are I5 that means the only way for them to fail is on a 6. This goes for most everything else of that speed except for MC who take the -1 and will still fail on a 6. Granted the wording still confuses me because I don't know if that means if they fail on a 5+ or if that means you add 1 to their roll...eh further clarification would be appreciated.



Thirdly regarding the flyers: True we can take them in those respects but we're forced to pay the points for all 3 of those flyers instead of choosing one. Just like normal marines we have to deal with that. Like normal marines we have to take away/leave some things out if we want to use them. Personally I find that dataslate to be a very lazy and rather bleh thing. Yeah sure it gives what some SW players had wanted in terms of flyers...but if they were just going to do it like that why didn't they just write our names in on the Death From Above book? Why wait until now and just...have it there as a random "Hey guys here ya go! Flyers for ya now! Got lost in the Warp Ya see...we had sent it over way back when but those pesky naughty daemons messed with the shipping! Anywho here ya go ennjoy~"....Okay that was just horrible and I scared myself imaging a Goofy voiced Inquistor saying that....

Fourth is in regards to the Contemptor, Unique troops and etc : Idk how things changed in the latest Imperial Armour book regarding who gets what. But the one I checked said we couldn't take the default normal one, only our special one. Our normal one which doesn't have Skyfire and Interceptor when it sands perfectly still. The one that can't take 2 6 shot Assault cannons. Personally I don't mind that because I love the Contemptor and think ours rocks! But it was still a point of "We don't have this ya know". Again if things changed in the recent armour then hey I'm wrong and would very much like to know how much things have changed on that beautiful beautiful model and it's awesomeness...Totally not crazy about it...you see nothing!

The Bikes & Jump Pack troops are what makes those armies unique and I'm glad for it. Truth be told I'm actually glad it's a bit of a penalty to try and be like them in those regards. As you said it's what makes them unique which is good. The Ice Cream Marines need to be unique just like we do. The regards to Long Fangs and the extra bodies is still just that they don't as many bodies. Which is fluffy and I'm personally happy for it being that way. it helps them stand out along side the splitfire and the one extra heavy weapon. But it does/can still boil down to, while for a big devistator unit they can weather a large blast at least, the Long Fangs take one that doesn't allow for cover and they're as good as dead.

That wasn't really nice to take a swing at Tactical Squads like that. They are/can be very amazing because they can switch up their rolls upon the battle field. Nothing says you can specialize them really. They can arguably beat GH because they can have the long range heavy weapon to shoot up a unit/weaken a big guy. While the GH have to get to Mid Range. You can also combat squad the tactical to have more scoring bodies. Yes the body count is cut but you can cover more ground while the GH have to move up the field to do their thing. Yes GH are very good and I love them. But everything has it's place/moments where it shines. Tactical Squads are the same.

All the vehicles I've seen used rather decently to tell the truth. Iron Clads are very nasty along with the Hunter/Stalker. Flakk missles are nice because hey, you get that one extra bit of AA and I've seen lists that include them and are used a bit. Well those who don't use an Aegis, Bastion, Fortress or anything really from the Stronghold Assault book...And eh Grav Weapons...they can still be nasty...just primarly against those big MC and such,,,still kills MEQ armies pretty good. Bane of TEQ as I see it...but I still hope we don't get them along with Centurions...just seem too....eh....Would love to see a Centurion converted/wolfed up yes! Buuuuut don't really want one in the dex to be honest...


To end this post that is starting to get rather long...This is all wishlisting and I should have respected that you have your own wishes for how you'd like things to change. I apologize for no accepting that and leaving it at that. Same with Walrus. To each their own and in the end the topic of this thread was "What do you want from the Space Wolves 6th Edition Codex?". Not justify the reasons blah blah blah...I stand by my own reasoning and explanation for why some things should be kept and what should and shouldn't really be added/removed.

I do want to say while it was a bit brow twitching here and there it was rather awesome to have a big discussion with you Zebra. I always like an excuse to speak fluff of the Wolfy variety along with just speaking about them. You know your stuff and it was nice learning about other things while reading how others see the codex. All in all good game and to each their own and leave it at that? Because I think we could be arguing this point...for weeks

Space Wolves are pretty balanced right now. Thats a fact. They stand their chance but you dont see space wolves armies take top places in tournaments or dominate a player group. Space Wolves are on par with some Space Marine Flavours. Whats not to like with this situation? Its what everyone wanted.

I hope they retain that for the new codex. Not making them more powerful than space marines but make them different enough.

Anyone thinking space wolves are OP beause of the 4+ antipsi should rethink his strategies. If you cant deal with 1 or 2 drop podding rune priests for antipsi you cant deal with any drop pod list.

tbh i hope they delay the codex because i think space wolves will either be underpowered or overpowered compared to C:SM after the release but definitely not on par like they are now.


If you follow the people in here they can take JotWW. Antipsibubbles, nerf longfangs and Wolflords aswell as TWC and while were at it take away counter attack and the CCW from the grey hunters. I dont care ... as long as the codex is playable afterwards and to make up for those nerfs they would have to buff other stuff A LOT.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I would love to see rivalry rules between Thousand sons, Dark Angels and the Inquisition and SW from both sides, but it wont happen really, the only thing we deserve is a few point reductions to keep up with 6th and maybe making our shooting abilities a smidge better or cheaper again to keep up with the Meta.

Normally I'd say that'd never happen for the first, but we finally are seeing specific hatreds coming forth.

Codex: Space Wolves. Copyright 1994 (2nd Ed). Pg 42.

"
Hatred
During the dark days of the Horus Heresy.....
...Space Wolves are effected by the psychology rules for hatred when fighting the Thousand Sons Chaos Space Marines.
"

You kids are just playing the wrong editions


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also -
This whole Rune Lord argument is boring. You've both said your piece, neither of you agree and no one else cares.

If I had any opinion at all, I'd say I don't like my army getting nerfed, but then again I'm a bit of a weirdo who thinks a Great Company should be lead by a Wolf Lord instead of 4x Identical Rune Priest(with minor changes to satisfy the rules, while ignoring the fact that the same rules says "don;t just add a melta-bomb to make them different")

Oh, and don't you f*%#ing dare take the extra melee weapon from my Grey Hunters!!
It was bad enough they're only allowed one power weapon per squad, instead of each being allowed a special melee weapon like they used to.
I'm sick of remodelling my units because a new codex reduced the options!

On the point of Centurions:
If we get Grav-Weapons we will probably get them two. [I still have mixed feeling about Space Wolf centurions, but Modleing would be good.]
If we got them without Gav-Weapons I hope it would be repaced with a Plasma-Cannon.

 karlosovic wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I would love to see rivalry rules between Thousand sons, Dark Angels and the Inquisition and SW from both sides, but it wont happen really, the only thing we deserve is a few point reductions to keep up with 6th and maybe making our shooting abilities a smidge better or cheaper again to keep up with the Meta.

Normally I'd say that'd never happen for the first, but we finally are seeing specific hatreds coming forth.

Codex: Space Wolves. Copyright 1994 (2nd Ed). Pg 42.

"
Hatred
During the dark days of the Horus Heresy.....
...Space Wolves are effected by the psychology rules for hatred when fighting the Thousand Sons Chaos Space Marines.
"

You kids are just playing the wrong editions

I know about the old edition, I have my CSM 3rd and 3.5 still. I'm saying in the 5th didn't have much, and it took a while for the specifics to come out in 6th to more fluffier looks.

Specifically after 4th and it's horrid dumbing down of the codexs.

Yes they do make our Rune Priest unique. Which, since you brought that point up...why do you want to take away one of the things that makes the unique so bad? You, as I said before, are acting as if the weapon insures victory when it really doesn't. You act as if the 24" bubble is actually 48". What it boils down to is your over hyping/over exaggerating the weapon to try and give a reason for it be removed/nerfed when really it isn't so bad. Especially for experienced players who know how to avoid it. it's not a 2+ denial it's a 4+. Yet you're acting as if it is.

It's more because it didn't use to be unique, since the Psychic Hoods and other things like Runes for Eldar, ensured a healthy anti-psyker presence for Imperium, Space Wolves for some reason kept it when every single other army lost the ability to deny.

That wasn't really nice to take a swing at Tactical Squads like that. They are/can be very amazing because they can switch up their rolls upon the battle field. Nothing says you can specialize them really. They can arguably beat GH because they can have the long range heavy weapon to shoot up a unit/weaken a big guy. While the GH have to get to Mid Range. You can also combat squad the tactical to have more scoring bodies. Yes the body count is cut but you can cover more ground while the GH have to move up the field to do their thing. Yes GH are very good and I love them. But everything has it's place/moments where it shines. Tactical Squads are the same.

Except the specialization still leave them off, they cannot beat GH, and it's pretty much been proven on here that the schizophrenic style just doesn't work for them.