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Everyone has been focusing on what units need in the new codex.

What about wargear?

Wolf tail talisman: At the moment a 5+ deny. Should these give adamantium will?
wolftooth necklace: Keeps 3+ to hit
Runic armour: Keeps 2+ save and 5+ invul against psychic powers
Frost blade: +1 str, ap 3 these work well
Frost axe: +2 str, ap 2, unwieldy , these need a price drop from powerfists else there is no reason to take them over fists except the rule of cool
Wolf standard: re-rolling ones, would this be good if other units had access to it?
wolfclaws: re-roll to hit or to wound. Having these as a pair allowing both re-rolls would be uber awesome
Belt of russ: its an iron halo basically, but wolf lords must purchase it instead of it coming standard. IT would be good to see a price drop, or they get it automatically.
Chooser of the slain: the deny bubble and line of sight +1 BS works well. no change is needed for this
Mark of the wulfen. D6+1 attacks, rending. No change is needed. Just some of the units that can have it need changing, or make it a melee weapon choice maybe?
Runic weapons: - these have been discussed.

DOOMONYOU wrote:

wolfclaws: re-roll to hit or to wound. Having these as a pair allowing both re-rolls would be uber awesome

Or, you know, make them work like every other Lightning Claw in the game?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

DOOMONYOU wrote:

wolfclaws: re-roll to hit or to wound. Having these as a pair allowing both re-rolls would be uber awesome

Or, you know, make them work like every other Lightning Claw in the game?

Either would work.
I do like the take two and get re-rolls for both.
Right now I have been doing one Power Fist and Wolf Claw just not to waste the second Wolf Claw.

I would like just a 5 point drop on the Frost Weapons, I think that would be just enough.

I would like to see Wolf Claws getting cheaper. If a Termie with SB and PW costs 33pts, I don't think one with Wolf Claws should cost 48pts. But that goes back to what I was saying earlier, WG in terminator armour need to get more expensive for the base upgrade (so more than 33pts) but equipment needs to get cheaper for them, so it's actually worth taking something other than bare bones termies.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

DOOMONYOU wrote:

wolfclaws: re-roll to hit or to wound. Having these as a pair allowing both re-rolls would be uber awesome

Or, you know, make them work like every other Lightning Claw in the game?

Either would work.
I do like the take two and get re-rolls for both.
Right now I have been doing one Power Fist and Wolf Claw just not to waste the second Wolf Claw.

I would like just a 5 point drop on the Frost Weapons, I think that would be just enough.

Why do they need to be better than Vanilla SM Lightning Claws??
They're the same weapon, just named differently, like the Blood Angels Blood Fist. It's a Power Fist with Blood on the start, just as the Wolf Claw is a Lightning Claw with Wolf on the start. Also, re-rolls for both hitting and wounding would be completely overpowered...

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

DOOMONYOU wrote:

wolfclaws: re-roll to hit or to wound. Having these as a pair allowing both re-rolls would be uber awesome

Or, you know, make them work like every other Lightning Claw in the game?

Either would work.
I do like the take two and get re-rolls for both.
Right now I have been doing one Power Fist and Wolf Claw just not to waste the second Wolf Claw.

I would like just a 5 point drop on the Frost Weapons, I think that would be just enough.

Why do they need to be better than Vanilla SM Lightning Claws??
They're the same weapon, just named differently, like the Blood Angels Blood Fist. It's a Power Fist with Blood on the start, just as the Wolf Claw is a Lightning Claw with Wolf on the start. Also, re-rolls for both hitting and wounding would be completely overpowered...

I agree they should just be like lightning claws... however rerolls to hit and wound isn't really that overpowered on SW models that really don't have that many attacks in the first place as long as you price them correctly (and they're overpriced at the moment anyway). A Wolf Lord with Lightning claws would average 2.5 wounds vs 2.2 for Frost weapon vs 3.3 wounds with Claws that allowed both to hit and to wound to be rerolled (against a Ws4, T4 opponent).

I think Wolf Claws should be Lightning Claws when used singly. But as the Space Wolves are something of claw specialists, when they use a pair of Wolf Claws they'd get the re-roll on both hits and wounds.

 Anpu42 wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

DOOMONYOU wrote:

wolfclaws: re-roll to hit or to wound. Having these as a pair allowing both re-rolls would be uber awesome

Or, you know, make them work like every other Lightning Claw in the game?

Either would work.
I do like the take two and get re-rolls for both.
Right now I have been doing one Power Fist and Wolf Claw just not to waste the second Wolf Claw.

I would like just a 5 point drop on the Frost Weapons, I think that would be just enough.

Curious question. How much do frost weapons cost and what exactly are they in the current codex?

Frost weapons are Power Axes or Power Swords that are an extra +1 to strength.

Cost I want to say averages 5 to 10 points more than a power weapon . . . so about as much as a wolf claw or a power fist for the specific model.

I actually hopped to Ovion's character creation and apparently +1S is basically 10 points so that's actually not that surpising. A power Sword costing +25 actually isn't that much of a shocker really. Same for the axe.

But yeah that is just Power Swords+1 xD

Tthey cost the same as a powerfist. 25 points.

At +5 over a Power Weapons would be resonable.

It should be, but not if that works out to the same cost as a powerfist (which it sometimes does as is).

Due to the striking at iniative vs I1 issue between axe and sword (not to mention AP values) having then both be 5 points more than a normal power weapon cost should be fine. There needs to be a difference between power weapons, frost weapons, P-fists/wolf claws, chain-fists and Thunder hammers.
+0, +5, +10, +15 anything more and suddenly things become too expensive to use any less and there is just no wiggle room.

As is, Wolf/Lighting Claws should be priced below the powerfist and above power weapons. How much of a gap between them and the frost Weapons is up for debate, thought he plus minus of a +1 S power sword versus a lightning claw is pretty even in my mind.

 Jayden63 wrote:
Due to the striking at iniative vs I1 issue between axe and sword (not to mention AP values) having then both be 5 points more than a normal power weapon cost should be fine. There needs to be a difference between power weapons, frost weapons, P-fists/wolf claws, chain-fists and Thunder hammers.
+0, +5, +10, +15 anything more and suddenly things become too expensive to use any less and there is just no wiggle room.

Yeah, although S is usually around +10, there's no use if it costs the same as a powerfist. Being +5 would work. Admittedly it would be very close to a power fist's price but we don't have much space. We can't price them like a standard power weapon nor can we make it a power fist's cost. To be honest I still wish that power axes were -1I to represent how axes made one slower but not to a crazy degree)

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:
Due to the striking at iniative vs I1 issue between axe and sword (not to mention AP values) having then both be 5 points more than a normal power weapon cost should be fine. There needs to be a difference between power weapons, frost weapons, P-fists/wolf claws, chain-fists and Thunder hammers.
+0, +5, +10, +15 anything more and suddenly things become too expensive to use any less and there is just no wiggle room.

Yeah, although S is usually around +10, there's no use if it costs the same as a powerfist. Being +5 would work. Admittedly it would be very close to a power fist's price but we don't have much space. We can't price them like a standard power weapon nor can we make it a power fist's cost. To be honest I still wish that power axes were -1I to represent how axes made one slower but not to a crazy degree)

As someone who has used a Battle Axe in actual combat, being Unweildy is not unreasonable, but Halving [round up] would be more in line.

So what make the axe I2 +2 strength AP3? Would be good to take out power klaw wielding orks, and marines but still leave terminators a chance to save.... So between a powerfist and a power weapon?

 dantay_xv wrote:
So what make the axe I2 +2 strength AP3? Would be good to take out power klaw wielding orks, and marines but still leave terminators a chance to save.... So between a powerfist and a power weapon?

But that would defeat the Job of the Power/Frost Axe wich is to penatrate 2+ Armor.

so you want a weapon that lets you go first, wounds on a 2, and forces terminators to make a 5+ invul save or die?
You are in effect creating a custom made termie killer for cheaper than a power fist and not many people will appreciate that. And in my opinion would be OP. If you want the advantage of speed over a powerfist, but lack a bit of strength against the powerfis, but want the same killing power, then you pay the same.
Terminators disappeared from many armies years ago,because all power weapons bypassed all armour so they got too pricy because they died too easy before getting to take a swing...
6th made terminators more survivable in melee and helped get them back in the game.
You'd just make the same thing happen again...

For me the Most for an axe would be +2 strength, Initiative 2, AP3 & rends on a 6 to wound. Anything more for less than a power fist is asking too much.
The only disadvantage to it is the Strength isnt high enough to crack a land raider!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Either rending or fleshbane...

 dantay_xv wrote:
so you want a weapon that lets you go first, wounds on a 2, and forces terminators to make a 5+ invul save or die?
You are in effect creating a custom made termie killer for cheaper than a power fist and not many people will appreciate that. And in my opinion would be OP. If you want the advantage of speed over a powerfist, but lack a bit of strength against the powerfis, but want the same killing power, then you pay the same.
Terminators disappeared from many armies years ago,because all power weapons bypassed all armour so they got too pricy because they died too easy before getting to take a swing...
6th made terminators more survivable in melee and helped get them back in the game.
You'd just make the same thing happen again...

For me the Most for an axe would be +2 strength, Initiative 2, AP3 & rends on a 6 to wound. Anything more for less than a power fist is asking too much.
The only disadvantage to it is the Strength isnt high enough to crack a land raider!!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Either rending or fleshbane...

Actualy I am happy with S+2, AP2, Unweildy, they should just be 5 points less than a Power Fist.

You get an extra attack over a fist due to not being a specialist weapon though, right?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
You get an extra attack over a fist due to not being a specialist weapon though, right?

Very True, but there is no reason for a Terminator to take them ove a Power Fist as to get the extra attack you need to buy a second Power Weapon.

Okay, if the axe isn't going before the power fist, then I agree that cheaper points cost for a frost axe.

What about frost swords?

 dantay_xv wrote:
Okay, if the axe isn't going before the power fist, then I agree that cheaper points cost for a frost axe.

What about frost swords?

The same basicaly. While the S+1 is nice, a Power Maul is better for wounds and a Power Sword or Power Spear is better vs 3+ just well for a chepper price. I also feel they should be only 5 point more than a Power Weapons, witch puts the both of them at the same price.

Sounds good to me.

 dantay_xv wrote:
Sounds good to me.

I would also like to see a Frost Lance
S+1, AP4
S+2, AP3, I+1 on the Assualt.
Recently I have been thinking a Frost Mace would be a little much though

What about dropping the strength bonus and adding in some different bonus. This would greatly solve the pricing difference because your no longer trying to fit in to an already established scale. Frost weapons work as their power weapon counter parts but any enemy in base contact with a frost weapon reduces their .WS or attacks by half (round down, minimum of 1) . now just add a +5 point cost to the power weapon cost and your no longer congested with strength bonus issues.

 Jayden63 wrote:
What about dropping the strength bonus and adding in some different bonus. This would greatly solve the pricing difference because your no longer trying to fit in to an already established scale. Frost weapons work as their power weapon counter parts but any enemy in base contact with a frost weapon reduces their .WS or attacks by half (round down, minimum of 1) . now just add a +5 point cost to the power weapon cost and your no longer congested with strength bonus issues.

Either that or take them down to their Power Weapons equivelant and giving them somthing like Rending.

Personaly I think a 5 point drop is all they truly need.

I would say either rending or flesh bane... The Frost weapons are meant to be special power weapons used by great heroes to slay great enemies.... So you either give a bonus which would apply as an exceptional strike (rend on 5 or a 6) or flesh bane wounding on 2+ but allowing an armour or in the case of daemons an invul save... Keep them at AP3 so terminators etc get a chance to survive