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Hello! I've got the island of Blood High Elves and then some. I'm really into the seaguard and plan to use them as my core and stick to a Lothern theme. I know it isn't the most competative, but i'm all about appearences and having a nicely themed force. However, when it comes it WFB i'm no good at getting started!

Here is what i have:

Prince on Griffon
Mage
5 Reavers with Spear and Bow
25 Seaguard with shields
25 Sword Masters

Things i would like to include:

Skycutter chariot(s)
shadow Warriors
Bolt Thrower

I would really like to start with a 1000 point list which uses mostly things i own so i can get gaming right away (I'll be up against Lizardmen most likely) and any advice beyond that would be realy great! I hear its best to stay minamal on core, because the rest is so much better. 20 seaguard with command covers that, but how should i run the swordmasters? a big block of 25? smaller units gurding flanks? do i need a BSB at this points level?

Thanks for any help!

A 1000pt list with the models you own could potentially look something like this…

Archmage - Dispel Scroll

20 Sea Guard - Shields, Full Command

12 Swordmasters - Musician

12 Swordmasters - Musician

2 Bolt Throwers

Might leave you slightly short of 1000 points…

Swordmasters in larger units are kind of a waste because only the front rank is making use of having 2 attacks. I guess being able to make supporting attacks with an extra rank is nice compared to other armies, but in larger units White Lions are far better than Swordmasters.

Looks like you are going for a fairly shooting orientated force. If thats the case then Id say commit to it pretty strongly and don't try to take a bit of everything. In larger games its going to be harder to pull off but at 1000pts it can work.

If your looking to shave points then the archmage could become a Lvl 2 and take High magic. He then would basically cast like a lvl 3 and you could default one spell to Soul Quench to help bolster your ranged attacks. Downside then is that you have a general thats the same Ld as the rest of your army which would make the lack of a BSB hurt a little more.

I'm attempting a list now which includes:

archmage + magic items 185 (needs magic items!)

5 Reavers, spear and bow - 95

20 Seaguard, Full Command - 270

15 Sword Masters, Full Command - 225

Bolt Thrower

Total: 845
Needs up to 65 points of magic items/ upgrades for the mage, and then something else to round off the rest of the force. Sky cutter maybe?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

alex87 wrote:
A 1000pt list with the models you own could potentially look something like this…

Archmage - Dispel Scroll

20 Sea Guard - Shields, Full Command

12 Swordmasters - Musician

12 Swordmasters - Musician

2 Bolt Throwers

Might leave you slightly short of 1000 points…

Very much like this list, I just managed to grab some more sword master command in order to run 2 smaller units.

This list is indeed a bit short, 954 points to be exact. I may swap out a bolt thrower for the reavers for now (saves money for the time being and will help me experiment with different units, Plus they still have bows adding to the shooting factor) that leaves me 20 points spare, would banners in the Sword master work? or maybe a cheap magic item for the mage?

Yeh thought it might be… that was top of the head list making! haha

You can fill it anyway you like really. Possibly give the mage the Golden Crown that might fill it?

Reavers are handy but there shooting can't be compared to that of a bolt thrower, still fits with the theme though i guess.

alex87 wrote:
Yeh thought it might be… that was top of the head list making! haha

You can fill it anyway you like really. Possibly give the mage the Golden Crown that might fill it?

Reavers are handy but there shooting can't be compared to that of a bolt thrower, still fits with the theme though i guess.

I get that they aren't as good, but in terms of just picking up one bolt thrower and using a few more of the models i have it just gets me gaming quicker I'll be sure to pick up another bolt thrower, probably followed by a skycutter, if only for the awesome seahelm/ bsb that comes with it.

and yes i can fit the golden crown

How would you suggest expanding to say, 1200, or 1500 points? i know a BSB is pretty much standard practice in WFB these days.

Thanks for all the help!

If you're committing yourself to the Lothern/shooting theme then another bolt thrower, Sea Helm bsb, expanding the sea guard unit and a sky cutter would fit well. This style of list will get harder and harder to win with the higher you go in points, but it seems as though having a themed list with character is what you're going for.

If you get high enough and need to expand you're core you could include some silver helms and justify them as being the sons of Lothern nobility that are eager to prove themselves in battle.

That about sums it up. i'm more than happy to have a more challenging themed list than a WAAC list that's all over the place. I will most likely build up 2000 points before moving onto other hobby ventures. My main gaming partner only has about 1500 points of lizard men which is also build more themeaticall than competatively, so I'm sure i'll have alot of fun!

I will bare the silver helms in mind for when i hit the 2k mark. How would shadow warriors fit in the list from a gaming point of view? (I'm totally new to Skirmishers, Cavalry, monsters, chariots... etc.. even magic, having only ever had dwarfs before!)

Shadow warriors are a really cool unit, they are one of the weaker options in the high elf army book but I use them regularly because I love them for fluff reasons and love the wood elf glade guard that I converted mine out of back before the fantastic new plastic set was available. They scout and skirmish so are very maneuverable and can be for harassing war machines. If you can use terrain well you can get good mileage out if them, just be aware that they will die to a stuff wind.

Thematically I'm not sure how they fit into a Lothern themed army considering Nagarathye and Lothern are located on opposite sides of Ulthuan, but you can get creative.

I really like the Lothern Theme as well and have worked that into my army as well.

A bit of advise as you expand your army. The Skycutters are difficult to make very effective alone. I have three and usually run two of them with bolt throwers and one with a Sea Helm. I swing them around the flank and let them plow the field while my Sea Guard send volley fire into their ranks. The Sea Helm in the Skycutter can charge in and take out smaller units threatening your fleet. (Remember the Skycutters count as chariots for impact hits) I put on Sea Helm as a BSB and one kitted out for combat. Keep adding to your Sea Guard and separate them into two units slightly facing one another to create a killbox.

It's good to have some combat-heavy special units in there as well. A small unit of Swordmasters can work for you here. The idea is to have your enemy so reduced by the time he reaches you that your SM can knock them out in one round. (Elves are not very tough so it's important to hit them hard and fast.) A unit of Sisters of Avelorn can work well in an army like this. They can give you that extra bit if shooting punch that you'll need.

@Alex87 I figured i could use Shadow warriors as "Sea Rangers" and paint them appropriately, i have a tendency to choose cool over competative, but as my force will already be less than competative at large points I may hold off on them for a while.

@White Fang Thanks for the tips on Skycutters, I was thinking picking up at least 2 with Eagle Eyes fairly early on would be quite useful, probably getting more in larger games.

As the force expands i'll probably start branching out, I notce Caledor is fairly close by, so a band of Dragon Princes riding to the aid of the Sea Guard doesn't appear too unlikely.

On another note, i have the Griffon from Island of Blood which looksa all kinds of awesome, I'm going to convert it up with some seaweed streamers and other Lotherny bits from the skycutter kit . I have never seen any used, or even put in army lists online. Are they completly hopeless or are there viable ways to run a Prince, or Nobel on Griffon?

I really like themed armies too. The Griffon can be made to fit nearly any army. They are probably better choices as far as play, but he can still be very fun. You do need to be careful with him though. People tend to be VERY scared of a character riding a monster and will devote massive amounts of firepower and magic to take him out. Ward saves are your best friend if you want to pour enough points into him. Also, taking him forces you to take lesser-mages due to point totals. I do this by taking two Lv.2's. When this happens, your magic phase needs to play a back-up roll, and not be a main focus for your army. This is a tough habit to break if you've been used to easily getting your magic to go off due to the Book of Hoeth and your lv. 4-5 Archmage.

If you can, hold him back (behind cover if possible) and strike at the right moment. Many people will want to put him out there right away to "clean-up" problem areas on the board and usually wind up putting him in a bad position. Use other things like Great Eagles and Ellryian Reavers to set up the match-ups that will be in your favor.

I you decide to start taking knights, be wary of Bolt Throwers. They can punch through these guys really fast.

I'll model and paint the Griffon dude, then hold him back until I have a substantialy larger army. My main gaming buddy will be running a Slann Priest so I'll be sure to keep my magic competative.

i'm really getting a better feel or where i'll be going with all this now (is it me, or is the Fantasy comunity a bit friendlier than 40k?)

with 25 Sea guard, and 5 reavers i have the core requirements to take me most of the way to 2,000 points so i have the freedom to focus on pretty things for a while at least. What kinda percentage roughly should i look to spend on Lords and Heroes in total? I guess you wanna put alot more into them the higher you go?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One more question, in bigger points should i look at a Loremaster over an archmage? What are the advantages/ disadvantages of each?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I've decided to give a 2000 point list a shot, I may be way off but here goes:

Lords and Heroes - 635

Arch Mage - 320
Lvl 4, Book of Hoeth, Talisman of Preservation

Seahelm - 160
BSB, Armour of Fortune

Mage - 155
Lvl 2, Dispell Scroll

Core - 509

32 Sea Guard - 141
Full command, Shields

5 Reavers - 95

Special - 664

14 Sword Masters - 212
Full command

14 Sword Masters - 212
Full command

Skycutter - 120
Eagle Eye

Skycutter - 120
Eagle Eye

Rare - 140

Bolt Thrower - xxx

Bolt Thrower - xxx

Grand Total: 1,948

It sticks very much to the theme and simply expands on what i own, keeping core to a minimum and a focus on shooting and some pretty heavy magic.

I have 52 whole points left, which could bulk out some units, add some magic banners, or i could maybe shave off a few points for a third bolt thrower?

Any thoughts appreciated!

 stargasm wrote:
Is it me, or is the Fantasy comunity a bit friendlier than 40k?

Fantasy lends itself FAR better to people like you who want to play themed lists. List building in 40k is basically where the game is won or lost. There are some combinations and army lists that other army compositions will literally be unable to beat in 40k. This may possibly contribute to this. But I know what you are getting at.

 stargasm wrote:

One more question, in bigger points should i look at a Loremaster over an archmage? What are the advantages/ disadvantages of each?

In larger games an Archmage is always going to be a better choice. Loremasters are actually alright in smaller games but in larger games where you basically know your opponent is going to have a Lvl 4 then your going to really start missing that 4+ to dispel. Advantages of the Loremaster is that having access to the signature spells from all lores provides a lot of versatility and you will always have a number of spells that will not only be helpful, but easy to cast. Also remember that this means he can make use of all the lore attributes which, whilst situational, can be handy. He certainly isn't a Lord-level fighter, however he can be of some support in that area. The major advantages of an Archmage is access to the best spells in each lore like purple sun, final transmutation, mindrazor and also the 4+ to dispel. The Loremaster would be a pretty good support caster to an Archmage if you were playing 2400pts and above, but if he is your primary magic user then your opponent will likely have the advantage in this area.

Helpful as always, so running a Lore master at 1500 could work, but better of with an archmage at 2000?

Once I've get 1000 points working, i'll probably be dropping a fair bit of cash to boost me up to 2k right off. I should be able to get a game in within the next week with some luck.

And yes, you are totally right about the importance of a solid list in 40k, and with this site being a little more 40k oriented i suppose its only natural for people be a little more "passionate"

In your 2k list with 52pts left I would recommend a feedback scroll on your archmage because it helps when someone throws 6 dice at lets say throne of vines.

Also Banner of the world dragon is broken so it would help your competitiveness without making the list themeless.

Also on the griffon as an Empire player myself is there anyway to transfer a wardsave onto a monstrous mount? Because Karl Franz' griffon always dies to cannons and its annoying.

The archmage is totaly maxed out, but i could give a unit of Swordmasters the BotWD to fill the points.

If characters have a ward save does that not also cover thier mounts? If not then i can't think of any way to get one on the Griffon.

I have no idea about wardsaves going on mounts thats why I asked.

fair enough, It's not too important as don't intend to use him for a while.

I;ve managed to get my hands on a bolt thrower now so I'll be testing the 1000 point list soon.

Bolt throwers are nasty take as many as you can grab.

unfortunatley (for the elves) i've rediscovered my love for stunties in the run up to the new release. While i may not be adding new models to the elf army for a while, i will be sure to get my 1k list painted up and give them a few games!

To recap, my 1k army is as follows:

Archmage, Dispell Scroll, Golden Crown

20 Sea Guard, Shields, Command

5 Reavers, Spear and Bow

12 Swordmasters, Mucician, Champion

12 Swordmasters, Musician

Bolt Thrower

Total: 997