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 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Farsight bomb doesn't even work against riptide spam because they will just interceptor you with a bunch of large blasts which ignore cover via buff commander

Because I'm deepstriking. Beautiful reading of the conversation thus far.

Am I missing some sarcasm here? You're deepstriking so you're going to get fethed up by Interceptor. You know how interceptor works right?

 Nightwolf829 wrote:
Scipio Africanus, if I may?

I think that what you should do is try trading armies with someone at some point for a single game. Switch things up a little. Take the tools that another player has been left with and use the experience to gain a more clear perspective. You will likely find your answer there.

Wonderful, of course. If I could do this in a tournament setting, I most certainly would.

Or, I could come to Dakkadakka.com and ask for the same information. So far I've been called lazy for taking a strong list, (incorrectly) called out on a reference to my signature, I've had my character attacked and from pieceing together information from two or three posters, I've gotten a *rough* idea of what all the fuss is about. I've heard words like O'vesa star thrown around, giving me some indication on what I need to look at to learn more. So far, I have gotten very little but bitching and moaning and "put yourself in my shoes." I'm trying to find out *what your shoes are like*, but all I can be told is you're a prick for taking a farsight bomb. or, walk 72" in my shoes for a game.

Now if someone could, without attacking me for taking a different but just as effective build, tell me what a rough 4-riptide list looks like, and what makes it such a complaintmonger, this thread can be done with.

I know this so far.

Riptides can get ignores cover, which could hurt on a deathstar like mine.
Riptides get a large pie plate, possibly at BS4/5, but much more likely to be BS3 soas to ensure as much ignores cover as possible.
Riptides remove the possibility of Gate of Infinity or Deepstriking.
One Riptide can re-roll failed nova charges, as well as the gets hot dice
Riptides cannot be run from given their immense range
Riptides require 12/13 AP2 wounds to kill, assuming they have stimulant injectors.
Riptides are dirt cheap, at 225 points.
On average, one riptide will get hot per two game turns, not including O'vesa.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Zande4 wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Farsight bomb doesn't even work against riptide spam because they will just interceptor you with a bunch of large blasts which ignore cover via buff commander

Because I'm deepstriking. Beautiful reading of the conversation thus far.

Am I missing some sarcasm here? You're deepstriking so you're going to get fethed up by Interceptor. You know how interceptor works right?

I can infiltrate my farsight bomb while taking shadowsun in the tournament I will be next entering.

Troll thread.

It seems pretty obvious to me that this is not a troll thread.

Scipio, if you can understand what people dislike about the Eldar Revenant Titan, your over halfway towards understanding the Riptide. But you make one major mistake - we don't fear riptide spam, we hate it.

Facing a Revenant Titan isn't 'playing 40k', its watching an enormous robot stomp on your dudes for three hours. When someone has put all that time, effort, and cash into making their dudes, and then they take them in for a 'game' and instead find themselves downgraded to mooks in someones elses personal FPS, it can be an unpleasant experience to say the least, even if you win.

Quadtide is just the same thing. You spend three hours watching the other guy's giant robots gak all over your dudes, instead of actually interacting with whats going on and playing an actual game

This is the reality of Quadtide, Screamer Council, and other trash lists for the 90% of players who don't play a Big Three (and arguably crons) army capable of competing on a reasonably even basis with them.

Or at least, my understanding of that reality. I'm sure other people have other problems with it, but thats my personal take on it and it matches the vibe I get from other players who also don't enjoy such lists

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
SO beyond the iffy legality of infilatrating the unit. Even if you can there is no way against a savy player that you will be within 12".

you can infiltrate 18" in sight, and move 6". What's so complicated about that that a savy player can contest it?

I mean, unless it's hammer and anvil, there are very few places to hide. Even if you do hide, I can just assault another riptide to hide on the second turn.

And, I know that Infiltrating based on a character's rule is iffy. But I'm going to make use of it if it's specifically allowed in a tournament.
Some of these tournaments also force my suits to only use one gun on overwatch. So sad.

Because if I put a screen 1" or more in front of my riptides now you are minimum 19" away....pretty easy to avoid your range and shoot turn or two. Then I move 6" away and shoot you , granting me 2 turns minimum of shooting.....really easy. 10 Kroot or so will protect all 3 or 4 riptides

Dakkamite wrote:It seems pretty obvious to me that this is not a troll thread.

Scipio, if you can understand what people dislike about the Eldar Revenant Titan, your over halfway towards understanding the Riptide. But you make one major mistake - we don't fear riptide spam, we hate it.

Facing a Revenant Titan isn't 'playing 40k', its watching an enormous robot stomp on your dudes for three hours. When someone has put all that time, effort, and cash into making their dudes, and then they take them in for a 'game' and instead find themselves downgraded to mooks in someones elses personal FPS, it can be an unpleasant experience to say the least, even if you win.

Quadtide is just the same thing. You spend three hours watching the other guy's giant robots gak all over your dudes, instead of actually interacting with whats going on and playing an actual game

This is the reality of Quadtide, Screamer Council, and other trash lists for the 90% of players who don't play a Big Three (and arguably crons) army capable of competing on a reasonably even basis with them.

Or at least, my understanding of that reality. I'm sure other people have other problems with it, but thats my personal take on it and it matches the vibe I get from other players who also don't enjoy such lists

I think I understand a little better now. Is part of that in the gameplay, though? I mean, I know there are some armies I will absolutely flatten, but if I go in knowing this will happen, I'll do my best to make sure my opponent is having a good time. Even if the tournaments' all about winning, I'll still flatten him, but I'll do it in such a way that he can at least walk away with a smile from the social experience. That's just my way, I guess. I'm not able to have fun unless I can at least let my opponent have a laugh or two.

Breng77 wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

Because if I put a screen 1" or more in front of my riptides now you are minimum 19" away....pretty easy to avoid your range and shoot turn or two. Then I move 6" away and shoot you , granting me 2 turns minimum of shooting.....really easy. 10 Kroot or so will protect all 3 or 4 riptides

I'd probably love that, actually. If you've got all 4 riptides together I can assault them on the second turn (If I go first I have a 2+ cover save up.) and hold them in combat for the whole game. Problem solved. (12 S7AP2 shots + 4-8 S8AP1 shots is not that scary an overwatch, even if some of it gets a markerlight or two. )

Ummm....not really. SO I have a Kroot screen which you kill turn 1 more than likely. (if you assault the kroot you get overwatched). I move the Riptide units apart on first turn with move -shoot your Bomb (probably kill a few suits and all your drones or position to try and avoid killing drones...and kill suits instead)- maybe even asasult you (which will probably kill a decent amout of your suits if I smash and instant death suits etc.) or Jump away.

Your Turn maybe you can assault all of them. But The Ovesa star still could hit and run out to go kill other things. So you cannot hold them up enough for it to matter...and if you lose combat and get swept....I win.

Honestly, too much theory hammer in your answers that is not backed up in the reality of what will actually happen.

And you keep saying "if I go first I have 2+ cover" which fist of all is not guaranteed (though likely) and second of all I ignore with at least some of my shooting (enough to do a decent amout of damage.)

Like I said I'm not saying its an auto loss for you...or that you won't be able to kill some riptides.

But this idea that no matter what...your bomb is going to be doing max damage, all the time, and be completely untouched because you have 2+ cover list largely laughable.

Riptides are clearly powerful but generally i'm more happy to see overmassed riptides rather than a ballanced combination of 1-2 tides+kroots+firewarriors - that's usually what's exchanged for a riptide.
However, just remember the time ig with maxed lrbt-s and artillery hit the board in 5 ed. It's annoying to play vs mass blasts. And it's even more annoying to play vs large blasts thet ignore cover and are fired from a very tough jump monstrous creature.
So you see, while for orkses the loss of 15-20 models per turn from 2-3 riptides can be just a bit unpleasant - but for elitist's armies it's actually the loss of half the initial number of models. And s9 ap2 blasts kill a marine biker as easilly as a grot. Grots are actually even more durable cause they're easier to hide

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Farsight bomb doesn't even work against riptide spam because they will just interceptor you with a bunch of large blasts which ignore cover via buff commander

Because I'm deepstriking. Beautiful reading of the conversation thus far.

Am I missing some sarcasm here? You're deepstriking so you're going to get fethed up by Interceptor. You know how interceptor works right?

I can infiltrate my farsight bomb while taking shadowsun in the tournament I will be next entering.

You can't use the infiltrate from an IC to let a non-infiltrate squad infiltrate. Sorry but that doesn't work

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
Farsight bomb doesn't even work against riptide spam because they will just interceptor you with a bunch of large blasts which ignore cover via buff commander

Because I'm deepstriking. Beautiful reading of the conversation thus far.

Am I missing some sarcasm here? You're deepstriking so you're going to get fethed up by Interceptor. You know how interceptor works right?

I can infiltrate my farsight bomb while taking shadowsun in the tournament I will be next entering.

You can't use the infiltrate from an IC to let a non-infiltrate squad infiltrate. Sorry but that doesn't work

Except when a tournament specifically allows it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Breng77 wrote:
Ummm....not really. SO I have a Kroot screen which you kill turn 1 more than likely. (if you assault the kroot you get overwatched). I move the Riptide units apart on first turn with move -shoot your Bomb (probably kill a few suits and all your drones or position to try and avoid killing drones...and kill suits instead)- maybe even asasult you (which will probably kill a decent amout of your suits if I smash and instant death suits etc.) or Jump away.

Your Turn maybe you can assault all of them. But The Ovesa star still could hit and run out to go kill other things. So you cannot hold them up enough for it to matter...and if you lose combat and get swept....I win.

Honestly, too much theory hammer in your answers that is not backed up in the reality of what will actually happen.

And you keep saying "if I go first I have 2+ cover" which fist of all is not guaranteed (though likely) and second of all I ignore with at least some of my shooting (enough to do a decent amout of damage.)

Like I said I'm not saying its an auto loss for you...or that you won't be able to kill some riptides.

But this idea that no matter what...your bomb is going to be doing max damage, all the time, and be completely untouched because you have 2+ cover list largely laughable.

Because I can't just make a small hole in the kroot and assault a riptide star, because I can't use target locks.

You're not going to win this argument. I know how to get into assault with things in a screen. I just need to hide in assault versus a riptide, not win an assault versus a riptide. I don't need to assault the kroot as my main target, just as a multi-assault target. I can reasonably make a hole just big enough for two drones to fit through and then pile into kroot. Hell, I might win combat by 7 for the 7 kroot I won't have had to kill in shooting and sweep two of those nasty riptides we keep going on about.

of course, if I've swept two riptides, I'm no longer looking at 4 pie plates, but two. Boxing up against a farsight bomb is not way to go, no matter how hardy you think your army is.

Ok...so reading even further.

If you can infiltrate...unless you are out of LOS you can never be within 12" on turn 1 No matter what you do....(you must be more than 18" away so 18.1" so no 12" range. Furthermore...you cannot charge turn 1 screen or no screen if you go first. And if you are 18.1 away you cannot charge anyway....

So if you cannot realisitically do much damage until...turn 2....ever...and I get 2 turns of shooting....how again are you killing what you say you can kill unharmed?

Really...not only do I not see how you accomplish what you say...but it is really easy to avoid your tactic...apparently even without Bubble wrap....because it is illegal.

Troll topic scraping the scum from the runner board underneath the kitchen sink along with "Dur, dur, why are people afraid of 6 Helldrakes?"

 Scipio Africanus wrote:

Breng77 wrote:
I guess if you have not played one maybe the answer is that you should be more worried about them then you are?

I'm still not seeing how you are auto getting in range, unwounded, and killing all of them. That is where your similation falls apart for me. There is no explanation of how this will happen.

Are you Jumping across the table and assuming LOS blockers?

Deepstriking into range (which is bound to fail) as you will get instant killed by the Riptides before you do anything?

My whole point is that I don't think you can do what you seem to think you can.

By your own math you need to do 13AP 2 wounds to kill 1 (assuming it does not NOVA charge for a 3++, then it takes what 26?). So say you kill one in a turn, what are the other 3 doing?

Math is great....assuming optimal condidtions for yourself and not the enemy is not.

At best, I get the drop on them. At worst, I get in pretty much unscathed. they're gonna get at most a turn of firepower on me (a good number of my tournaments have let my farsight bomb infiltrate because of shadowsun.) If I get first turn I get fireshield from tigurius giving me a 2+ cover save before they can hit me and I wreck the most dangerous unit (O'vesa star, if it's on the field.) At very worst, you're looking at killing most of my drones.

Also, you're talking 4 nova charges there. O'vesa get's a re-roll, but it's still 3 which is enough for one fail. Every third turn he saves one and loses two wounds for it, assuming enough are alive by turn 3.

Anyway, the real point is, have you seen a farsight bomb go at another farsight bomb? It's not pretty. O'vesa star doesn't sound much different. If I'm getting within 12" first turn (and I can) I've pretty much got any unit in the bag, Farsight Bomb, O'vesa Bomb and possibly even a screamer star included. Especially if O'vesa is reduced to T4 because of how many T4 models are in the unit (I guess that'd need to be 4, which doesn't sound likely.)

Does anyone know how monster hunters works for O'vesa? Because I should get the rule against him, but other wounds won't be hitting him, surely? (I can get the 11-13 wounds necessary to kill him.)

1.So you understand that the O'Vesa star ignore cover right?

2.Can you survive 4(or 3, let’s say one over heats or 2 of them scatter off a bit) intercepting large blasts?

3.How many points are you investing into your own deathstar?

How about you play against O'vesa star or four Riptides instead of theorycrafting? Silly thread is silly.

Combined with the super durability and the ability to shift the wounds so that it is really REALLY hard to actually kill one(Ovesa LOS with 3+ fnp on top of a 2+ armor save). combined with twin-linked target locked ignore cover.....you are gonna have a bad time.

Why are people afraid of the loaded dice I bought online? Just because they roll a 6 98.9% of the time is no reason to believe they skew the game in my favor.

I don't get why someone playing one of the most common cheeseball lists such as the one the OP is playing would have much trouble against anything outside of a 2++ rerollable army. The army plays itself with minimal input from the player.

Oohhhh, I just got suckered into responding to a troll, didn't I? You crafty little gak you!

 RancidHate wrote:
Troll topic scraping the scum from the runner board underneath the kitchen sink along with "Dur, dur, why are people afraid of 6 Helldrakes?"

Apart from the part where it isn't, yeah.

Anyway, a constructive comment.

Four Riptides simply isn't balanced. Without Support, they're not that great, and four Riptides means you're missing out on either support for said Riptides, or on troops for taking objectives. I believe a 5 Riptide list was discussed by some of the regular Tau players a while ago, though I think the conclusion was that it was mostly a gimmick list. I'll see if I can't find it. It might provide some useful information.
Five Riptide discussion
Riptide general tactica

Triptide is the more common setup, opening up a tad under a Land Raider's weight in points.

 liquidjoshi wrote:

 RancidHate wrote:
Troll topic scraping the scum from the runner board underneath the kitchen sink along with "Dur, dur, why are people afraid of 6 Helldrakes?"

Apart from the part where it isn't, yeah.

Anyway, a constructive comment.

Four Riptides simply isn't balanced. Without Support, they're not that great, and four Riptides means you're missing out on either support for said Riptides, or on troops for taking objectives. I believe a 5 Riptide list was discussed by some of the regular Tau players a while ago, though I think the conclusion was that it was mostly a gimmick list. I'll see if I can't find it. It might provide some useful information.
Five Riptide discussion
Riptide general tactica

It's so hard for people to simply accept that I was being sincere in my question.

Thanks for the links. I've since found a few lists, and watched a few games against a riptide and I've gotten a friend to play it with me, using the tournament rules we'll be playing under. I did about as I expected - First game I went first, and I wrecked. Second game, I went second, I was a little too non-conservative and I lost enough suits that I drew. (We played the games so that I went first once, then he would go first once, so I wouldn't just win because I went first.) He did not wipe my farsight bomb in the second game, but had 2 riptides on 3 and 1 wound left, as well as his scoring. I also had my scoring.

Case closed. Still not afraid of riptides, but now I understand them better.

Thanks to the four or five people who weren't sneering, and didn't call me a troll or lazy. Your assistance is appreciated.

To the rest of dakka, I think you need to take a step back before posting, and ask what was the point of this thread again?

Because the point of this thread was not to call anyone names, or to troll anyone, or anything like that. It was to get a public opinion on why people who don't have my particular army (one which laughs at all monster armies, matter o'fact) were afraid of a riptide.

I've already made this comparison before in the past, but I'll reiterate it again. The problem with riptides is that not every army can deal with it effectively. Yes, some armies can. However, this is not street fighter. I can't just pick the top tier easily the next time I play. An army is a huge investment in time and money, and 40k is really a game that is decided in at the army list construction phase.

That's why people hate riptides. The army is winning because of an essentially unkillable $85 model.

It's not random that Tau is winning on tournament tables right now. Now design a Dark Angel army that's a 5-5 matchup against a riptide list. You can't do it. That's why people hate it.

Let me quantify what I just said: Large blast + no cover + ap2/3 basically invalidates marines. Yes, you can get around it, but it's automatically an uphill fight. Marines are relatively expensive pointswise because you are paying for a marine stat line and 3+ armor. That doesn't matter against riptide spam. Now look at the basic IG veteran. 3 special weapons, a heavy, BS 4, and dies to the pieplates exactly the same, but is half the cost and puts out way more firepower. So even before you play, if you play marines, you feel like you lost at the army select screen. It makes people feel like this game is stupid.

If you come down in drop pods, crowd around the riptide. They can't pie-plate you if they'd have to land over an allies base. If you're deepstriking, find other ways of getting onto the field. Don't leave your units in clumps, spread them out in lines so they're naturally going to be less to hit. Spread them out in coherency so there's going to be less to hit.

Crowding around an objective doesn't help. if you're losing 5 guys to a pie plate that didn't scatter really well you're not spreading out well enough. Any "savvy" player will spread out well enough, hugging cover save for the one that can ignore it.

EXACTLY. The suggestion made earlier that drop-podding my two squads of Sternguard down to kill Riptides was a bad idea is frankly, ludicrous. Either you fine somewhere to drop them where Intercept is not a issues but can still get LOS to a Riptide with a 6" move or you drop in so close to his Riptides that he's afraid to shoot. I'm afraid that certain posters have been all to willing to assume that anyone who can regularly beat Riptide spam is either playing against inept opponents or lying through their teeth.

Also, I'd like to point out that the list I was referring too is in fact a TAC comers list (albiet one skewed towards taking on popular tournament builds). Dealing with MC spam is just one of the tasks the list is built for. All the units in my list that I unwisely described as "anti-riptide" and perform multiple roles against multiple opponents. That being said, because of the threat Riptides post to marines, it's very unwise for marine players to field a tournament army that hasn't being designed with killing riptides in mind.

Dakka, I can tell you I'm not afraid. It took until more than 30 replies for two people to give me the answers I Was looking for. I wasn't trying to cause an upset, I merely pointed out that I didn't see what was so bothersome about the particular army. I'm very slowly getting a picture of what the problem is. I'm still taking flak for not having had to face an army that I still don't find all that threatening.

Is this anger against me for not being afraid of something, or against the four riptide list for being good against units of elite infantry? Here's a point, Monsters. 4 riptides can chug out 12 S7AP2 shots which is 6 hits with 4 wounds. That doesn't take down most tyranid monsters. (maybe 5, but that's assuming that we're talking about a t.fex, tervi, or trygon/mawloc.) Armies with scouts can rush in small units to tie up the monsters with WS2. I'm not afraid of four pie plates, and I'm not afraid of riptides. I'm not afraid taking a marine list which can't even be considered tournament-realistic and still feel I'd have a decent chance.

I expect it's partially because you're not afraid of Riptide spam. And partially because your ability to defeat the riptide spam lists consistently might frustrate gamers who struggle against them, perhaps choosing to believe that your success is a slight on their abilities. Ego can be a very fragile thing, especially where gamers are concerned. Some of our fellow gamers may have taken your dismissal of the threat far too personally, choosing to interpret it as a comment on their abilities as a player.

Mostly, I suspect it's because many of the respondents thought that you were either trolling or bragging, rather than genuinely trying to understand what the problem is. Riptide spam is such a common problem for many gamers that it's possible that many of the people who replied thought you were winding them up, rather than trying to understand the problem.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 scuddman wrote:
The problem with riptides is that not every army can deal with it effectively. Yes, some armies can. However, this is not street fighter. I can't just pick the top tier easily the next time I play. An army is a huge investment in time and money, and 40k is really a game that is decided in at the army list construction phase.

That's why people hate riptides. The army is winning because of an essentially unkillable $85 model.

It's not random that Tau is winning on tournament tables right now. Now design a Dark Angel army that's a 5-5 matchup against a riptide list. You can't do it. That's why people hate it.

Let me quantify what I just said: Large blast + no cover + ap2/3 basically invalidates marines. Yes, you can get around it, but it's automatically an uphill fight. Marines are relatively expensive pointswise because you are paying for a marine stat line and 3+ armor. That doesn't matter against riptide spam. Now look at the basic IG veteran. 3 special weapons, a heavy, BS 4, and dies to the pieplates exactly the same, but is half the cost and puts out way more firepower. So even before you play, if you play marines, you feel like you lost at the army select screen. It makes people feel like this game is stupid.

I completely agree with everything that was said above. There was a damn good reason why AP3 was almost sacrosant up until Helldrakes were released: it was what made MEQ armies viable. Now that AP3 is so easy to overcome for SOME armies, Marines are horrendously over-priced against certain armies, Tau in particular. Even going fully Mech with your marines only provides some protection, because even Fire Warriors can glance Rhino's to death. I disagree that it's impossible to bear Riptide spam with marines (because I manage it fairly regularly) but it's certainly an uphill struggle. It's hard for a ten man tac squad to earn it's points back in terms of enemy kills over the course of a game, but a single Ritide can (and often does) earn it's points back against Marines in the very furst turn of the game. That's why Marine players hate them, and it's why everyone that goes to a tournament needs to have a list that's able to ttake out 3-4 Riptides in the first half of the game and perferably in the first two turns.

 LeadLegion wrote:

If you come down in drop pods, crowd around the riptide. They can't pie-plate you if they'd have to land over an allies base. If you're deepstriking, find other ways of getting onto the field. Don't leave your units in clumps, spread them out in lines so they're naturally going to be less to hit. Spread them out in coherency so there's going to be less to hit.

Crowding around an objective doesn't help. if you're losing 5 guys to a pie plate that didn't scatter really well you're not spreading out well enough. Any "savvy" player will spread out well enough, hugging cover save for the one that can ignore it.

EXACTLY. The suggestion made earlier that drop-podding my two squads of Sternguard down to kill Riptides was a bad idea is frankly, ludicrous. Either you fine somewhere to drop them where Intercept is not a issues but can still get LOS to a Riptide with a 6" move or you drop in so close to his Riptides that he's afraid to shoot. I'm afraid that certain posters have been all to willing to assume that anyone who can regularly beat Riptide spam is either playing against inept opponents or lying through their teeth.

Or they're playing against HBC Riptides.

Good point. I don't see HBC Riptides in my local meta, but if I ever do see one (and I fail to kill it in turn one) them my Anti-Riptide plans (which are dependent on fliers, skimmers and pods) aren't going to work. Not often enough to matter, anyway.

At that point, I'll switch to Raven Guard chapter tactics instead, ditch the pods, Stormraven and TH/SS's and start loading up Rhino's with Sternguard and Command Squads, invest in Coteaz and pray I get first turn.

Scarier for you would be a more balanced list of 2 riptides and a unit of missile-sides with a longstrike hammerhead. One unit in a vacuum isn't scary, it's the army, run by a competent player that will wreck your day. There is no "I win" button for farsight bomb just like a four-riptide list doesn't guarantee wins.

Now that you've faced one riptide, ask your friend to try one of the trip-tide lists floating about the interwebs and see how you fare against that and learn from it as you might see it in your tournament. Proxy the models if you/he don't have enough riptides, I think the experience will be more important than any sense of "game purity".

The problem your having here dude is that your having cognitive dissonance with regard to your own question and your phrasing of the question. If i may paraphrase your question its, 'why are other people having an emotional reaction to something. I am not having an emotional reaction to this thing, therefore it shouldn't threaten them.' this question and its phrashing presuposes that everyone should have a similar emotional response and to think in the same way as you, in spite of what their experiences might be. By including the clause about emotion in your query you were eliciting an emotional respose from people which is bound to lead to strong responses if not well reasoned ones.
if you just wanted to find out what are the dangerous to a 4 riptide list well that is a more academic question that can be answered without emotion.
to answer your question itself 'why are 4 ridetides dangerous?' its been answered several times over in this thread. manuveribliity (making it hard to assault), resilience (making it hard to kill), fire power making it hard to initially survive, and rule breaking ability due to the units that support it, times 4. most people cant cope with such stuff and tau are really obnoxious to play against most of the time, as well as being one of two top armies in the game right now. this is why people dislike playing it.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Any codex outside of the big three has a problem with Riptides, because they don't have easy access to mobile/ignore-cover/low-AP/wound-reroll tucked into one package.

This. Pretty much.

Polythemus wrote:
The problem your having here dude is that your having cognitive dissonance with regard to your own question and your phrasing of the question. If i may paraphrase your question its, 'why are other people having an emotional reaction to something. I am not having an emotional reaction to this thing, therefore it shouldn't threaten them.' this question and its phrashing presuposes that everyone should have a similar emotional response and to think in the same way as you, in spite of what their experiences might be. By including the clause about emotion in your query you were eliciting an emotional respose from people which is bound to lead to strong responses if not well reasoned ones.
if you just wanted to find out what are the dangerous to a 4 riptide list well that is a more academic question that can be answered without emotion.
to answer your question itself 'why are 4 ridetides dangerous?' its been answered several times over in this thread. manuveribliity (making it hard to assault), resilience (making it hard to kill), fire power making it hard to initially survive, and rule breaking ability due to the units that support it, times 4. most people cant cope with such stuff and tau are really obnoxious to play against most of the time, as well as being one of two top armies in the game right now. this is why people dislike playing it.

Have an exalt sir for narrowing down why people, myself included, initially assume this to be a "trolling" thread.

Compound the above with the addition of an Eldar ally and the situation becomes stickier because then you have to potentially deal with another disliked mechanic, the wave serpent.

It's like fighting a crocodile with a 22.

 ThunderFury 2575 wrote:
It's like fighting a crocodile with a 22.

If you're fighting a crocodile with a 22, you ought to be able to kill it from beyond visual range without issues. Unless it's the crocodile who's got the 22, in that case you just need to make sure to get within the minimum range; a weapon with a 22 inch calibre is probably not going to be that accurate.