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Out all the 6th edition codices, these two seem to be the worst even though Tyranids have only been out for a week. So I ask the Dakka community, which is worse? CSM or Tyranids?
Chaos marines remained the same but got a few buffs and a few new units, of which only one was viable but still it was and still is incredibly viable.
Little orphans in the snow
With nowhere to call a home
Start their singing, singing
Waiting through the summertime
To thaw your hearts in wintertime
That's why they're singing, singing
I think they are more or less at the same level. More time is needed for a proper comparison.
welshhoppo wrote: There is the exact same thread in the 40k tactics forum.
Which is about tactics.
I like or dislike a book due to "fun" factors: different builds, options, background, art, new units, not nerfing the units I already have, not losing units... The "strength" of the Codex is a factor, but not an important one.
CSM at least have all their units left, even if not in ideal shape.
Not true.
As a fluffy Word Bearers player I used lots of Lesser Daemon and a Greater Daemon, a model from another company based on Ingethel, from The First Heretic / Collected Visions. These units are no longer in the Codex: CSM and Undivided Daemons were erased from Codex: Chaos Daemons a little after.
By the way, I think it is time to remember why Chaos players were so pissed off with the 4th edition Codex. This is the list of units lost from 3.5 Codex to 4th:
Spoiler:
Bloodthirster
Great Unclean One
Keeper of Secrets
Lord of Change
Bloodletters
Plaguebearers
Horrors
Daemonettes
Nurgletts
Furies
Screamers
Flesh Hounds
Alpha Legion rules, virtually a completely different army.
Alpha Legion cultists
Iron Warriors rules, virtually a completely different army.
Night Lords rules, virtually a completely different army.
Word Bearers rules, virtually a completely different army.
Black Legion rules, virtually a completely different army.
World Eaters (Khorne army) rules, virtually a completely different army.
Death Guard (Nurgle army) rules, virtually a completely different army.
Emperor´s Children (Slaanesh army) rules, virtually a completely different army.
Thousand Sons rules (Tzeentch army) rules, virtually a completely different army.
Hounds. They were separate models you got with characters. I miss them. They shared this position with Spawn, that made it into the new Codex.
And I am not counting options, gear and all kinds of stuff.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/16 00:05:36
‘Your warriors will stand down and withdraw, Curze. That is an order, not a request. (…) When this campaign is won, you and I will have words’
Rogal Dorn, just before taking the beating of his life.
from The Dark King, by Graham McNeill.
I'm thinking Nids are the worst off of the two, largely because GW had already cut everything from the CSM's the last time around
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
da001 wrote: I think they are more or less at the same level. More time is needed for a proper comparison.
welshhoppo wrote: There is the exact same thread in the 40k tactics forum.
Which is about tactics.
I like or dislike a book due to "fun" factors: different builds, options, background, art, new units, not nerfing the units I already have, not losing units... The "strength" of the Codex is a factor, but not an important one.
CSM at least have all their units left, even if not in ideal shape.
Not true.
As a fluffy Word Bearers player I used lots of Lesser Daemon and a Greater Daemon, a model from another company based on Ingethel, from The First Heretic / Collected Visions. These units are no longer in the Codex: CSM and Undivided Daemons were erased from Codex: Chaos Daemons a little after.
By the way, I think it is time to remember why Chaos players were so pissed off with the 4th edition Codex. This is the list of units lost from 3.5 Codex to 4th:
Spoiler:
Bloodthirster
Great Unclean One
Keeper of Secrets
Lord of Change
Bloodletters
Plaguebearers
Horrors
Daemonettes
Nurgletts
Furies
Screamers
Flesh Hounds
Alpha Legion rules, virtually a completely different army.
Alpha Legion cultists
Iron Warriors rules, virtually a completely different army.
Night Lords rules, virtually a completely different army.
Word Bearers rules, virtually a completely different army.
Black Legion rules, virtually a completely different army.
World Eaters (Khorne army) rules, virtually a completely different army.
Death Guard (Nurgle army) rules, virtually a completely different army.
Emperor´s Children (Slaanesh army) rules, virtually a completely different army.
Thousand Sons rules (Tzeentch army) rules, virtually a completely different army.
Hounds. They were separate models you got with characters. I miss them. They shared this position with Spawn, that made it into the new Codex.
And I am not counting options, gear and all kinds of stuff.
Orktavius wrote: Oh what a shame....GW cut out units that chapterhouse made models for......oh wait
*Cough* obvious troll *cough*
The loss of colorful units really drains the fun factor. Also, the new synapse mechanic of units eating their own
I enjoyed the CSM codex and was not on the whole convinced that it was an utter hack job like the nids codex seems to be.
CSM > tyranids
"drinking liqueur from endangered rain forest flowers cold-distilled over multicolored diamonds while playing croquet on robot elephants using asian swim suit models as living wickets... well, some hobbies are simply more appealing than others." -Sourclams
What if the new nid codex is going to be a formation that only nids can take and not a supplement codex ?
If nids got more slots and uber stealers and power lictors outside of FoC it may make them better.
I am pretty sure these Dataslates fixes many problems in the Codex. So they knew the Codex was broken. They just wanted us to pay for the fixes. Fine. DLC´s abuse has come to W40k.
‘Your warriors will stand down and withdraw, Curze. That is an order, not a request. (…) When this campaign is won, you and I will have words’
Rogal Dorn, just before taking the beating of his life.
from The Dark King, by Graham McNeill.
Not true at all. As an army they changed pretty significantly. As individuals even the actual Chaos Marines themselves are quite different than they use to be.
but got a few buffs
Huh?
and a few new units, of which only one was viable but still it was and still is incredibly viable.
I would argue that more than one was viable. Like maybe TWO are viable. lol But yes, in my mind the Helldrake alone puts the CSM dex slightly above the new Nid dex. Now admittedly I've not given the new book a super intense read through yet, but from what I've seen so far, the new 'Nids book suffers from a lot of the same issues the Chaos book does (odd random tables for the sake of it, old/long lingering issues not fixed etc) but added additional problems like dropping some of the 'Nids better units. Much like the Chaos book the 'Nid book appears to do nothing to take advantage of the 6th ed rules and actually appears in some ways to be penalized by them just like CSM. So yeah, I would put the Chaos dex ever so slightly ahead of the 'nids.
That being said, it's still early. I'm hoping for the sake of my 'Nid friendsthat I'm wrong here.
Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug
Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..."
Oh yeah ... forgot about that. I go rage-blind when I think about the fact that CSM STILL have no pods ... but at least they never had them to lose .... poor 'Nids.
Also, another point in favor of CSM - we can take allies to try and patch the numerous holes Kelly blew in our book. 'Nids can't even do that.
Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug
Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..."
In the OP its said CSM and nids are the worst, but they're not...
Sisters, Grey knights, and Blood Angles are pretty rough to play.
I don't know enough about the new nids to say if they're better than CSM or not but CSM is pretty rough....
"We are the Red Sorcerers of Prospero, damned in the eyes of our fellows, and this is to be how our story ends, in betrayal and bloodshed. No...you may find it nobler to suffer your fate, but I will take arms against it." -Ahzek Ahriman
1250 Points of The Prodigal Sons
In the OP its said CSM and nids are the worst, but they're not...
Sisters, Grey knights, and Blood Angles are pretty rough to play.
The OP also said "which of the 6th edition codexes ..." It's debatable whether or not the armies you mention actually are worse (I'll STILL take my BA over my CSM right now) but they also don't have "true" 6th ed books yet. The fact that you could only list 5th ed books (I know I know the sisters "kind of" got an update) really speaks to just how rough 'Nids and CSM really are.
Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug
Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..."
You are complaining about CSM???? I havent seen the new nid codex but it cant be as big of a kick in the balls as to what they did to my dark angels.........
RoperPG wrote: Blimey, it's very salty in here...
Any more vegans want to put forth their opinions on bacon?
In the OP its said CSM and nids are the worst, but they're not...
Sisters, Grey knights, and Blood Angles are pretty rough to play.
The OP also said "which of the 6th edition codexes ..." It's debatable whether or not the armies you mention actually are worse (I'll STILL take my BA over my CSM right now) but they also don't have "true" 6th ed books yet. The fact that you could only list 5th ed books (I know I know the sisters "kind of" got an update) really speaks to just how rough 'Nids and CSM really are.
Codex: Adepta Sororitas is a 6th Edition Codex. It's got Warlord Traits and everything.
The fact that it is digital-only does not make it "not a true Codex", that is a spanker argument.
Yes, the Sisters have fewer units than either CSM or Tyranids.
Yes, it's actually two Codices (Codex: Sisters of Battle and Codex: Ecclesiarchy) smashed together.
Yes, our only real star player got hit with the nerf-bat real hard.
Yes, our defining mechanic got nerfed hard.
But it *is* a Codex.
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised.
Codex: Adepta Sororitas is a 6th Edition Codex. It's got Warlord Traits and everything.
The fact that it is digital-only does not make it "not a true Codex", that is a spanker argument.
Yes, the Sisters have fewer units than either CSM or Tyranids.
Yes, it's actually two Codices (Codex: Sisters of Battle and Codex: Ecclesiarchy) smashed together.
Yes, our only real star player got hit with the nerf-bat real hard.
Yes, our defining mechanic got nerfed hard.
But it *is* a Codex.
Fair enough. lol I actually didn't realize how much changed with that update.
Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug
Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..."
In the OP its said CSM and nids are the worst, but they're not...
Sisters, Grey knights, and Blood Angles are pretty rough to play.
The OP also said "which of the 6th edition codexes ..." It's debatable whether or not the armies you mention actually are worse (I'll STILL take my BA over my CSM right now) but they also don't have "true" 6th ed books yet. The fact that you could only list 5th ed books (I know I know the sisters "kind of" got an update) really speaks to just how rough 'Nids and CSM really are.
Codex: Adepta Sororitas is a 6th Edition Codex. It's got Warlord Traits and everything.
The fact that it is digital-only does not make it "not a true Codex", that is a spanker argument.
Yes, the Sisters have fewer units than either CSM or Tyranids.
Yes, it's actually two Codices (Codex: Sisters of Battle and Codex: Ecclesiarchy) smashed together.
Yes, our only real star player got hit with the nerf-bat real hard.
Yes, our defining mechanic got nerfed hard.
But it *is* a Codex.
There has never been a Codex: Ecclesiarchy. Even the Original Codex: Sisters of Battle back in 2nd was a combination of Ecclesiarchy because of the fact that the sisters are the main military branch of it.
They still need to return some of those elements as well.
1250 Points of The Prodigal Sons 