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 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
In the Necron's own fluff: The fact that the Silent King, who stood up to and defeated Gods that would eat stars for sustenance, is afraid of Tyranids, should really tell you something...

"there is only one fate for this universe unless tyranids are purged"...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
In the Necron's own fluff: The fact that the Silent King, who stood up to and defeated Gods that would eat stars for sustenance, is afraid of Tyranids, should really tell you something...

"there is only one fate for this universe unless the tyranids are purged"...

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
In the Necron's own fluff: The fact that the Silent King, who stood up to and defeated Gods that would eat stars for sustenance, is afraid of Tyranids, should really tell you something...

He is not afraid of the Tyranids. He believes that they are the greatest threat to the future of bio-transferrence back into flesh and blood bodies.

It is quite clearly stated that "He recognizes the threat they pose to the Necrons Apotheosis" NOT the Necrons themselves. He is worried they are going to eat everyone else and leave no bodies for the Necrons to transfer into. He is also concerned the younger races are so weak, they will just feed the Tyranids beyond control. He does not sound "Afraid", concerned, certainly, but not afraid.

 Sasori wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
In the Necron's own fluff: The fact that the Silent King, who stood up to and defeated Gods that would eat stars for sustenance, is afraid of Tyranids, should really tell you something...

He is not afraid of the Tyranids. He believes that they are the greatest threat to the future of bio-transferrence back into flesh and blood bodies.

It is quite clearly stated that "He recognizes the threat they pose to the Necrons Apotheosis" NOT the Necrons themselves. He is worried they are going to eat everyone else and leave no bodies for the Necrons to transfer into. He is also concerned the younger races are so weak, they will just feed the Tyranids beyond control. He does not sound "Afraid", concerned, certainly, but not afraid.

He fears that the younger races are going to feed the Tyranids to the point that even an united Necron race would be overwhelmed. And that is only the biomass of a galaxy, the Silent King isn't aware that the Tyranids have consumed many galaxies (12 IIRC from the 5th Codex).

I keep hearing people complaining about the newcron fluff (no one here).
I find that the new fluff is awesome, it gives them a personality.
Also, does anyone else picture the silent king with a cyclopeon eye?

 Tyran wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
In the Necron's own fluff: The fact that the Silent King, who stood up to and defeated Gods that would eat stars for sustenance, is afraid of Tyranids, should really tell you something...

He is not afraid of the Tyranids. He believes that they are the greatest threat to the future of bio-transferrence back into flesh and blood bodies.

It is quite clearly stated that "He recognizes the threat they pose to the Necrons Apotheosis" NOT the Necrons themselves. He is worried they are going to eat everyone else and leave no bodies for the Necrons to transfer into. He is also concerned the younger races are so weak, they will just feed the Tyranids beyond control. He does not sound "Afraid", concerned, certainly, but not afraid.

He fears that the younger races are going to feed the Tyranids to the point that even an united Necron race would be overwhelmed. And that is only the biomass of a galaxy, the Silent King isn't aware that the Tyranids have consumed many galaxies (12 IIRC from the 5th Codex).

I mentioned that in my post, I'll bold it for you.

He is not "Afraid" He is concerned about that being a possibility. There is a big difference between fear and concern. There nothing in the fluff to show he is actually Afraid of the Tyranids, but he is concerned that they will cause problems for Apothesis and the Necron race if they feed on the galaxy.

Hmm...
Races that could contain the necrons...
Green skins, no.
Eldar, no.
Towel, maybe.
Humans, definitely, all they would have to do is create a stable genepool of pariahs, and they have all the bodies they need.
Marines, just humans.
'nids, guess.
The silent king NEEDS humans. Without them, his entire kind is doomed. From what I understand no new necrons are/can be created, save pariahs, they are the future, of the necron race.

Forgive me if I contradict some cannon out there, my Tyranid and Chaos are a bit limited.

Can't the inquisition use some Deathwatch and capture some genestealers and then basically throw them into the Eye and have a dukefest between Chaos and Tyranids. Tyranids can't really absorb daemon biomass and cultists/marines in the Eye of Terror probably won't be enough to sustain the hive. Cadians do send probes into the Eye of Terror so maybe some Deathwatch or even Grey Knights can take the gene stealers and infect cultists with them.

If they are unable to do that then maybe send martyrs and have imperial infected soldiers or whatnot go into the Eye of Terror.

Thinking about it, this would only work if Tyranids FTL doesn't consist of seeing planets on their way to the Eye, otherwise its like Pac Man munching its way through the imperium.

SkyHawk wrote:
Forgive me if I contradict some cannon out there, my Tyranid and Chaos are a bit limited.

Can't the inquisition use some Deathwatch and capture some genestealers and then basically throw them into the Eye and have a dukefest between Chaos and Tyranids. Tyranids can't really absorb daemon biomass and cultists/marines in the Eye of Terror probably won't be enough to sustain the hive. Cadians do send probes into the Eye of Terror so maybe some Deathwatch or even Grey Knights can take the gene stealers and infect cultists with them.

If they are unable to do that then maybe send martyrs and have imperial infected soldiers or whatnot go into the Eye of Terror.

Thinking about it, this would only work if Tyranids FTL doesn't consist of seeing planets on their way to the Eye, otherwise its like Pac Man munching its way through the imperium.

The Tyranid FTL is real-space based so they are going to munch their way across the Imperium, also the Hive Mind know that it can't eat Daemons so I doubt that it is going to fall for the bait, Octavius worked because it is full of biomass.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
In the Necron's own fluff: The fact that the Silent King, who stood up to and defeated Gods that would eat stars for sustenance, is afraid of Tyranids, should really tell you something...

Just get all the Ultramarines and continue to produce them, then duct tape them to your ships until they coat every square inch. Nothing will be able to harm you, certainly not Nids.

 Wyzilla wrote:

Just get all the Ultramarines and continue to produce them, then duct tape them to your ships until they coat every square inch. Nothing will be able to harm you, certainly not Nids.

That's what Calgar thought right up to the point his honour guard had to sell their lives dragging his nearly dead form away from the Swarmlord

The Nids generally avoid both those enemies as there's very little to gain so the fight has to come to the Nids, Necrons at least have mass but while it could be used as armour it's not what they need for most of their creatures, they need those sweet, sweet hydrocarbons

We've seen that the Nids can fight the Crons, they need to be rich in biomass though as they are not replenishing the way they would normally unless the battle is on a living world. It means they can do it but are at a disadvantage.

Daemons however we've seen, SitW is bad for them which gives the Nids the advantage however we don't know the effects of SitW falling over a Daemon *world*. Cut off from the warp would the world wither and die getting weaker as it returned to a normal consumable world which would be advantage Nids? Would there be enough residual charge/a link through the planet to keep the daemons going, in which case the Nids are in trouble as the very world fights back against them.

It's an interesting question.

But even if their ship gets destroyed it only means that the ultramarines shall have revenge and kill the swarm lord

 Sasori wrote:

 Tyran wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
In the Necron's own fluff: The fact that the Silent King, who stood up to and defeated Gods that would eat stars for sustenance, is afraid of Tyranids, should really tell you something...

He is not afraid of the Tyranids. He believes that they are the greatest threat to the future of bio-transferrence back into flesh and blood bodies.

It is quite clearly stated that "He recognizes the threat they pose to the Necrons Apotheosis" NOT the Necrons themselves. He is worried they are going to eat everyone else and leave no bodies for the Necrons to transfer into. He is also concerned the younger races are so weak, they will just feed the Tyranids beyond control. He does not sound "Afraid", concerned, certainly, but not afraid.

He fears that the younger races are going to feed the Tyranids to the point that even an united Necron race would be overwhelmed. And that is only the biomass of a galaxy, the Silent King isn't aware that the Tyranids have consumed many galaxies (12 IIRC from the 5th Codex).

I mentioned that in my post, I'll bold it for you.

He is not "Afraid" He is concerned about that being a possibility. There is a big difference between fear and concern. There nothing in the fluff to show he is actually Afraid of the Tyranids, but he is concerned that they will cause problems for Apothesis and the Necron race if they feed on the galaxy.

Your trying to justify a position. A machine cannot be afraid, true. But he includes the Necron race in the destruction of the galaxy if the Tyranids are not stopped, hence he is "afraid" of what they can do.

Where is it definitively stated that the Tyranids have consumed 12 galaxies before arriving at our own?

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
Where is it definitively stated that the Tyranids have consumed 12 galaxies before arriving at our own?

Implied in WD #145 (UK) and Codex: Tyranid (5E).

Regarding the discussion about Daemons, I'd just like to point out that the battle wasn't as boring and one-sided as it was described earlier in this thread. The Daemons lasted a while and forced the Tyranids to adapt to their odd magicks and disease before the Nids won with SitW and sheer numbers.

The Tyranids would definitely avoid a Daemon world if they had the choice. The only reason they even fought them was because they were already on the world and didn't want to lose the biomatter. At first they even just ignored the Daemon presence, not registering them as a food source or direct threat until the swarm started taking casualties.

 Dunklezahn wrote:


That's what Calgar thought right up to the point his honour guard had to sell their lives dragging his nearly dead form away from the Swarmlord .

Oops. That's been retconned. Now the story is that he rather easily withdraws, defeats the hive fleet, chases down the swarmlord and kills it in hand to hand. Papa smurf got even more Mary Sue in the 6e dex fluff. Sorry Swarmy.

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:

 Tardzan wrote:
In the fluff, did the Tyranids ever tried fighting a strong daemonic force on a daemon world or a strong necron force on a tomb world? if they did, how well did the Tyranids do on those fights? And do you think a daemon force would be harder for the nids to defeat or would a necron force be harder for the nids to defeat?

In the new codex, Shadowbrink was an imperial work with a small Grey Knight task force trying to contain a chaos relic. The Tyranids slaughtered the imperials and started feeding on the planet when the relic blew and opened a door to the Warp. A Keeper of Secrets, Bloodthirster, Great Unclean One, and a Lord of Change came through with an army. They were sad the Imperials were dead, but thought all they had were some bugs to kill before launching an assault on the Imperium. Before they realized how they were, the GUO tried to wipe out the Tyranids in a charge. He exploded under an apocalyptic barrage from swarms of Biovores and Exocrines. After that, they realized that Shadows in the Warp > Warp and they were starving. The Lord of Change ran home while the Bloodthirster, Keeper of Secrets, and the rest of the demonic army were destroyed in an insane last battle of attrition with swarms of Tervigons spewing termagants before finally sending the last of them back to the warp under hordes of Carnifexes and Tyrannofexes.

The whole time, they were beating Nurgle's diseases through adaptation.... Demons are a cakewalk. Necrons give them a lot more work for their money. A Tyranid will go around a Necron for easier food. It doesn't mean that they won't attack them if the Necrons have something the Hive Fleet needs.

So in other words it is a boring over the top roflstomp match? Well that kinda sucks... I think I preferred it when the nid vs daemon reference was left vague. Imperial go to check and then see what's happening and just say forget that *Blow the planet to smitherines* also wait how is shadows in the warp > warp when daemons are the warp meaning that shadows would simply make daemons dissapear I'm confused. Then again I also get annoyed where a single regiment of guardsman.... defeats an entire hive fleet or some nonsense in some fluff in the guardmsan book I think. I need to drag that back.

Anyways, with this being the first sign of what usually happens, it seems like Daemons have 0 chances of fighting Nids and Nids and Necrons have almost 0 chance of beating Necrons (bar dormant ones and small minor expeditions). So now I am imagining all the races as this one short skit of monty python where a bunch of rich people argue about how bad their past life was as they continue to escalate!

I assure you, Fall of Shadowbrink was not a 'roflstomp' match. The battle started off as a massive disadvantage for the Tyranids, as it explains that the Hive Mind would not recognize the Daemons as anything more than an unusual phenomena until the Daemons actually started to inflict significant damage to the Tyranids, where it eventually began to recognize its opponent as a competitor rather than prey, and even during the ongoing conflicts, the Tyranids struggled a lot against the forces of Chaos unpredictable ways and attacks on them, even Nurgles diseases managed to cause massive damage to the swarms before the Tyranids could become immune to each. It was only through these loses that the Hive Mind managed to learn and adapt to its opponent, and eventually outhink the Daemon army completely in strategy and tactics. By then, it seems the Daemons lost because they had underestimated their opponent as they are so used to fighting enemies that feel emotion and can feed off of. The victory of Shadowbrink was determined by the superior strategist and tactician, which in this case was the Tyranids. Even as the battle started, the world had already belonged to the Tyranids, and after, it has been mentioned that after the Tyranids victory, whatever remained for the Xenos was 'spoiled'. It was an excellent and exciting read from what I found was little as a dull and copy-and-paste fluff in the new Tyranid codex.

 You Lost the Game wrote:


I assure you, Fall of Shadowbrink was not a 'roflstomp' match. The battle started off as a massive disadvantage for the Tyranids, as it explains that the Hive Mind would not recognize the Daemons as anything more than an unusual phenomena until the Daemons actually started to inflict significant damage to the Tyranids, where it eventually began to recognize its opponent as a competitor rather than prey, and even during the ongoing conflicts, the Tyranids struggled a lot against the forces of Chaos unpredictable ways and attacks on them, even Nurgles diseases managed to cause massive damage to the swarms before the Tyranids could become immune to each. It was only through these loses that the Hive Mind managed to learn and adapt to its opponent, and eventually outhink the Daemon army completely in strategy and tactics. By then, it seems the Daemons lost because they had underestimated their opponent as they are so used to fighting enemies that feel emotion and can feed off of. The victory of Shadowbrink was determined by the superior strategist and tactician, which in this case was the Tyranids. Even as the battle started, the world had already belonged to the Tyranids, and after, it has been mentioned that after the Tyranids victory, whatever remained for the Xenos was 'spoiled'. It was an excellent and exciting read from what I found was little as a dull and copy-and-paste fluff in the new Tyranid codex.

This.
The Codex is terrible with the exception of the jewel that is Fall of Shadowbrink.

"Competing predators" is probably the best way to describe the daemon/necron/tyrannid relationship, when I think about it. They can not consume each other, but they are all competing for the same prey.

Again, though, outside of the warp, like I said before, they fight and deal with each other the same way everyone does. Using lots and lots of physical violence. In this case, as stated above, the winner simply comes down to the one who was superior at the necessary aspects of war at the time (tactics, strength, logistics, etc).

This thread is a great read

On a normal planet the Tyranids are attacking, SITW will have a debilitating affect on Daemons putting them at a disadvantage. But on a true Daemon world? Pretty much every race besides maybe CSM (who are already corrupted) would get stomped by an endless hoard of Daemons.

Indeed. In actual warp influenced space there is no connection to break. Its just an endless conga line of demonettes and angry frat boy bloodletters singing Beck as they bang the bongo on your Hive Tyrant and corrupt your Norn Queen into smoking and hanging out in seedy pool halls.

Since the Hive Mind won't even reabsorb Ymgarl Genestealers for fear of the uncontrollable mutations that might become rife throughout the Tyranid race, I seriously doubt they would want to consume anything from a Daemon world.

Shadow in the Warp hurts Daemons? Tell that to Khorne while I possess your Hive Tyrant with a Herald. :p

Of course I am a little biased, in reality like many of the races in 40k there is a kind of stalemate between factions to keep things even. Tyranids and Daemons are a good example of what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

Tyranids in a deamon world... Dead nids simple as, tyranids on a world where a warp portal opens like in the New nid dex, different story, one has the very ground your on attacking you, the other is just a planet with deamons attacking you.

Very different kettles of fish

You would think that the combined press of the SITW around a single planet by a vast hive fleet would eventually cause the daemons to lose their grip on reality and phase out. Paving the way for a conventional invasion.

Mellow wrote:
You would think that the combined press of the SITW around a single planet by a vast hive fleet would eventually cause the daemons to lose their grip on reality and phase out. Paving the way for a conventional invasion.

Daemons worlds are in the EoT or other holes in reality, attacking them is stupid. But we already know that Tyranids can defeat Daemons in normal planets.

Mellow wrote:
You would think that the combined press of the SITW around a single planet by a vast hive fleet would eventually cause the daemons to lose their grip on reality and phase out. Paving the way for a conventional invasion.

Above explained it. Also doesn't help that daemon worlds aren't even exactly worlds anymore. Some are even sentient. Many are morphed to their ruler's whims. And some are so permeated that they'd still just exist fading in and out of reality.

 Formosa wrote:
Tyranids in a deamon world... Dead nids simple as,

Perhaps not, as said in the previous edition, Tyranids have invaded a Daemon world before, and of what purpose and gain remains a mystery, but until the Grey Knights busted in with Marine support and Exterminatus, the conflict between Tyranid and Daemon seemed to be a bit of a bloody stalemate, which also begs the question for me, if Tyranids are avoiding Necron worlds because of the lack of biomass, why are they attack warp storms and Daemons worlds?

 You Lost the Game wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Tyranids in a deamon world... Dead nids simple as,

Perhaps not, as said in the previous edition, Tyranids have invaded a Daemon world before, and of what purpose and gain remains a mystery, but until the Grey Knights busted in with Marine support and Exterminatus, the conflict between Tyranid and Daemon seemed to be a bit of a bloody stalemate, which also begs the question for me, if Tyranids are avoiding Necron worlds because of the lack of biomass, why are they attack warp storms and Daemons worlds?

The planet in question was a normal planet until daemon prince used a weird voodoo book to transform the planet into a daemon world just a little before the Tyranids arrival.