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I was planning on running a tank heavy BA List with something like 4 Lassbacks 3 Baals and 3 Preads. Is this kind of list decent? I kind of feel like this is the best I can do with my blood angels. Would I be better off leaving the three HS Preads and going with two storm ravens instead. Has anyone run a list like this before? What was your experience? Where did it do well and where does it fail. I was going to run the razor backs with assault cannons, would this help with this tactic?

First off, las/plas razors as MUCH better for BA.

This list is okay, but realize that a big problem is the AV 11 sides. A lot of AV 13 lists turn into AV 11 once the opponent starts moving.

..and a lot of necron lists will eat it alive.

Yeah that is very true, about the side armor. I was thinking that the twinlinked las might me better for taking out fliers, but I don't know. would I be better off taking three vindicators or the preads or the ravens?

AS Martel732 has said, once you start moving your opponent gets more opportunities at that squishy AV11.

That said though I took on a tank heavy Blood Angel army not that long ago although it had a pair of Vindicators and a heap of Razorbacks. The target saturation he had made it initially hard to get my head around. I would recommend either go hard with it or don't bother (ie. either heaps of tanks or none).

Yeah that was my thought as well I think at 1500 points I can fit
1 libby
3 razorbacks with assault
3 Baals
3 Preads

So 9 tanks at 1500 is decent but not the endall list for sure but it may be fun.. Not sure how to give it more teeth.

The problem with tanks (believe me check out my Imperial Guard army I know tanks) is that they can disappear all too quickly, one shot is all it takes and with such nasties as Sternguard in pods and other madness your fire power gets reduced really, really quickly.

Do you think I would be better off with ravens to draw some fire off the tanks?

Maybe, I have never played with any flyers. I have played against a few and most of the time I ignore them as I also don't generally have much in the way of anti-air defense.

Although I did lose 4 dreadnoughts to a Raven in one game, that was bloody painful.

it takes 5 bs4 laz shots to glance or pen a wave serpent in the open. And a first pen can be reduced to glance. Maybe around 4 if all the shots are twin-linked. And it's VERY likely that u're gona face that. While killing your predators and razorbacks ain't really a huge issue.
So vehicles might work but the moment you face someone competitive - you gona have to totally outplay him and be much luckier at the same time. Otherwise, you must have other options on hurting such...things.

Why are there no vindicators? Fast vehicles with a str 10 pie plate are the things of nightmares.

This kind of list is probably the best that BA have right now. Just make sure you get some terrain or landraiders to shield that side armour.

Protect your sides with Fury dreads for more AV 13 lulz. Te downfall of this list is this. If your buying tanks and dreads, your not buying space marine bodies. You'll eventually lose because everone else can field so much more than you can.

It'll be extremly evident when the armies are placed across from one another.

Mech BA (sans raider) is pants against eldar and tau. But then again - so are all our builds.

If you want to game out against non-Tau/non-Eldar, the next set of codices that are problematic are helldrake lists, GK, and Necrons.

Mech is useful against GK and helldrakes, but nercons will eat it.

Sorry - ment to include crons. I also run crons so love it when mech lists show up against me. My stormtechs do a dance of glee around the annihilation barges whilst raving to the neon lighting supplied by rapid firing gauss. And I dont run rending wraiths either.

Fast tanks are so cool... but yet not really good.

AV13 without 3 podfragnauts (is that a word?) is not real AV13.

You don't need Baal preds, just 3 tri-las preds who can't be hit in side/back.

Flyer heavy list is a hard counter, so ally smurfs for Tiggy and 3 Cents. I doubt you could squeeze in a stormtalon, but might be worth a try.

If going for 3 tri-las preds sitting backfield you may as well go for vanilla marines as you'll be paying 40pts per tank for nothing.

The issue I have with just switching codexs to SM is that I kinda feel like that's a coop out. I own the army and bought the dex so I am sticking to it, I think it might be a good idea like some have said to switch to vindicators or maybe even whirwinds, if I switched to the whirlwinds I could probly afford to drop some fragnaughts in pods in there. I have no issue playing the underdog, as my other army is Nids.... yeah... I like the challenge and even maybe surprising a person or two.

Grav bikers are wonderful BA allies.

BA whirlwinds are expensive for what you get. Vindicators are worth much more.

kellymatthew37 wrote:
Yeah that was my thought as well I think at 1500 points I can fit
1 libby
3 razorbacks with assault
3 Baals
3 Preads

So 9 tanks at 1500 is decent but not the endall list for sure but it may be fun.. Not sure how to give it more teeth.

I think most BA mech lists need something a bit more punchy as most of the time you'll be outshot by your opponent. At 1500pts you could do :-

Librarian
3x Furioso Dreads w/ Pods
2x ASM w/ Flamer, Pods
1x ASM w/ Flamer, HF Razor
2x Baal Preds w/ AsC, HB
2x Preds w/ AuC, LC

or

Librarian
Corbulo
5x TH/SS Terminators w/ Land Raider Crusader/Redeemer
2x ASM w/ Flamer, HF Razor <---- Hide in reserves, then out of LOS
2x Baal Predator w/ AsC, HB
2x Preds w/ AuC, LC

kellymatthew37 wrote:
The issue I have with just switching codexs to SM is that I kinda feel like that's a coop out. I own the army and bought the dex so I am sticking to it, I think it might be a good idea like some have said to switch to vindicators or maybe even whirwinds, if I switched to the whirlwinds I could probly afford to drop some fragnaughts in pods in there. I have no issue playing the underdog, as my other army is Nids.... yeah... I like the challenge and even maybe surprising a person or two.

I certainly respect that. You harbor more fortitude than I, sir. I switched to scars after about 10 games with BA. Exalted.

That said, I still run my power armored vamps about a third of the time so I can still crank out a decent list. I do think at least one vindicator would serve you well. If you want a bunch of AV 13 I suggest

Epistolary
Jump pack

Libby Dread (wings, extra attacks)
Fragioso , drop pod

Baal AC/ HB
Baal AC/HB
Baal AC/HB

Full ASM w/ packs
Full ASM w/packs

Vindicator
Vindicator
Tri Las Pred

That said, if you aren't opposed to allies, I second a vote for white scars allies with grav guns. It would even make sense fluff wise.

I like your idea of running dreads.. Do you think that preads will remain effective with only two each. Have you had luck with ravens at all? I am not overly familiar with white scars are they better then regular bikers. I get that you cant get grav guns in the BA book, but other then that is there a huge difference? I Had run the jumpy ASM in the past and have found them wanting. I also kinda like the idea of Terminators but they kinda loose out on running an AV13 List

C:SM has many, many advantages over C:BA. Someone else can chime in, as I don' t have much time.

Okay just for you Martel ;-):

Cheaper tac marines/assault marines/scouts/veterans/no name hqs.
Cheaper tanks that don't need fast - side sponson predators, whirlwinds etc.
Effective anti air cheaper than 200pts - stormtalon, hunter, stalker.
Access to grav weaponary.
Access to centurian battle suits.
Exceptionally cheap 2+ power weapon weilding honour guard.
Chapter tactics.
Thunderfire cannons.
Bikes as troops.
Faster assault marines - raven guard/1 turn ultramarines
Spammed scoring 'death companies' - carcharodons
Fnp army wide for free - red scorpions
Mass pod armies (we have this too bit it kinda makes DoA armies redundent)
Insane chapter masters
Named characters worth taking (ok we have corbulo and mephy)
Really good relics
LotD (michael flatley rocks)
Flyer spam better than BA
Dreads with av13 side (this is a lot bigger than you'd assume)
Access to seige assault vanguard options
LSS for scouts.
Ability to spend only 175pts on compulsory slots.

Just when I had convinced myself that my red rockers weren't to bad you guys and reality had to come and pimp slap me back to the real word. Thanks...

What is your meta/LGS like? Is it comprised of a super competitive group of guys who spam the flavor of the month armies (Tau/Eldar) who play to win or are they laid back, playing for laughs and the enjoyment of the gaming experience with whatever army they like best?

If its the latter, I wouldn't be so disheartened. Let's face it, in a play to win enviornment, BA can't cut it. However in a "for fun" enviornment I actually think BA are among the most worthwhile armies (to play) period. In a chill enviornment you can absolutely win with BA. And regularly. I know because I do, and I've had more fun and laughs than I can remember while doing so. All while playing a unique (as far as SM goes anyway) army that I love who's models, theme and history are frankly, bad ass.

However if the folks you play with really emphasize the competition with their tau/dar, then I would upgrade to C:SM without hesitation.

In regards to your earlier question, yes I have had some decent success with storm ravens. They make great gunships and are as tough as fliers (without void shields) come. However if you plan on going the AV13 route, I would advise you go balls to the wall. If not, just use preds and dreads for support as you see fit.

White scars allies are awesome. They allow you access to all the space marine goodies with Hells Angels (or Mongols rather) in power armor as scoring troops. Their chapter tactics give their bikes 4+ jink save, strength 5 hammer of wrath hits and allows them to ignore difficult terrain. When I run Scars as allies I take

Chapter master on bike
2 5 man bike squads with 2x grav guns per squad
Storm talon to back up my BA stormraven
and either centurion devs or a TFC depending on points.

Best of both worlds brother.

Don't let the forums get ya down. If you like your army play the hell out of it. A conducive meta helps oodles with this. If you aren't playing the kind of people who run 5 wave serpents, and 3 riptides in an 1850 game, keep up the fight on behalf of Baal and the Legacy of Sanguinius!

Just spamming AV13 with Vindicators, predators and fury dreads seems kind of gimmicky and could get countered rock paper scissors style. After all, they may all be different, but they're all still AV13, 3HP, ground vehicles.

I'm thinking a more balanced approach with Baal Preds, Storm Ravens, the aforementioned Podfragnoughts, required troop choices in Razorbacks and at least one Land Raider. Preferably with Terminators in it for smashing apart the "anvil" units. It's really funny when your "hammers" break the "anvil"

I actually just wrote an 1850 list with all these things, except the fragnoughts which I need to buy first, in it. If anyone thinks it's a bad idea, feel free to comment over in the 40k lists section about what YOU would change