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 RiTides wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
FW's Greater Daemons are a bad example - they're too big too!

Wait, those are the official models, how could they possibly be too big? We keep hearing all the time how Forgeworld and GW are the same company... FW models are totally usable as Greater Daemons, and Creature Caster's actually fit on the correct base size much better than even FW's do.

No those are forge world special character greater demons that originally represented Apocalypse level gargantuan creatures. The "official" models are the metal/Finecast GUO, Bloodthirster, Lord of Change and Keeper of Secrets. Models which Creature Caster's previous incarnation, Ultra Forge, made suitable alternative models which fit the size and aesthetic of more so than the FW gargantuan Daemons. Tournaments have evolved to allow the FW versions as suitable stand ins simply for the sake of the rule of cool, but in nearly all situations the FW Daemons are a disadvantage on the table due to their size making them much more difficult target to hide.

I am also choosing not to back Creature Caster because the models are not a significantly cheaper alternative to the existing models available from FW and I am a 40k daemon player so that is what I would be using them for. I already own the ultra forge versions and love them but the price tag on these isn't going to have me purchasing more versions of the same model that will also be putting me at a greater disadvantage on the table.

@necronlord3, I think your missing the conversion chart for pricing if you don see the difference in prices.
FW keeper of secrets, 165mm tall, 90.50£= $153usd. Shipping not included
CC spider demon, 160mm tall , $75CAD= $70usd. Shipping not included(but you'll get a free model also)
Both are roughly same size as the FW demon is measured to the to of her raised arm.

I understand your dilemma with them being larger targets and I'm not criticizing your decision, but couldn't you have these models be you centerpiece for a display, and field the other models so your not penalized for their size?

I've also seen other comments about not being able to use them because they aren't GW models. I guess since I don't do tournaments, I have the luxury of using whatever I like, and I know I like these over other models I've seen (finecast/metal keeper o secrets, newer version is ugly in my opinion, I have one of the older ones that is more four armed Minotaur with boobs).

I wish I had more funds to throw down on these now, but I'll get more once they are at retail .

I'm going to get one. Just not sure which. I prefer the mierce alternatives to the LOC, converted my own GUO so I am torn between the BT or the Kos, which neither of I may play until the next fantasy book comes, however models are amazing.

I'm not sure why anyone would penalise you for having a giant DAEMON (=MAGIC ENTITY). Daemons can take any shape or size of their choosing, so I think these models would be just fine on the battlefield. OK they'll attract A LOT of attention, but I think it adds to a games' narrative of David and Goliath kinda confrontation.

The models fit on the 60mm bases that the GW Greater Daemons fit on. In fact, Jeremy specifically designed them that way so they would be compatible with game systems like Warhammer Fantasy and 40k. I'm really not getting why people are so hung up on their sizes.



Besides, everyone knows bigger is better.

I'd think it's because this forum is much more 40k-centric than Fantasy, and therefore LOS issues are much more important. Not sure how much it effects the current verison of fantasy in terms of directfire spells or warmachines, etc.

 Darth Bob wrote:
The models fit on the 60mm bases that the GW Greater Daemons fit on. In fact, Jeremy specifically designed them that way so they would be compatible with game systems like Warhammer Fantasy and 40k. I'm really not getting why people are so hung up on their sizes.



Besides, everyone knows bigger is better.

In a game with 'True Line of Sight', the height of the model can play a significant role as well. Some of these demons might for example be able to see over the top of a bastion, whereas the real models can completely hide behind one. Also, just in terms of aesthetics, the GW greater daemons are ~3 times as tall as one of their models, so look suitably imposing but still reasonable. A model twice that size beings to look disproportionately huge, to the point of being out of scale.

That being said: I got a Vrok, so I'm happy

Trasvi wrote:


In a game with 'True Line of Sight', the height of the model can play a significant role as well. Some of these demons might for example be able to see over the top of a bastion, whereas the real models can completely hide behind one. Also, just in terms of aesthetics, the GW greater daemons are ~3 times as tall as one of their models, so look suitably imposing but still reasonable. A model twice that size beings to look disproportionately huge, to the point of being out of scale.

Fair enough, but I think at that point it becomes a matter of asking yourself "do I want to avoid getting an awesome model simply because I want to min-max my gameplay?" I mean, Greater Daemons come in all sizes, so the "out of scale" argument doesn't really make much sense to me; especially when Forge World has put out comparatively (or exceedingly) large models representing the Greater Daemons. Yes, you can say that they are meant to represent the Apocalypse special characters, but if that were really the case they wouldn't be named with the generic name on the website. It's clear that they're intended to be used for either. I get that some people don't want to handicap their gameplay experience by getting models that won't get cover saves, but I've never been one to base my purchases on something that arbitrary. To each their own, I guess, but I find it a bit silly. Then again, I enjoy models more for the hobby than the gaming, so I can understand the gamers' reprehension.

 Theophony wrote:
I've also seen other comments about not being able to use them because they aren't GW models. I guess since I don't do tournaments, I have the luxury of using whatever I like, and I know I like these over other models I've seen (finecast/metal keeper o secrets, newer version is ugly in my opinion, I have one of the older ones that is more four armed Minotaur with boobs).

I wish I had more funds to throw down on these now, but I'll get more once they are at retail .

I'm surprised at anyone thinking they can't use a model because it isn't GW, I've not heard of anywhere but GW stores and Warhammer World enforcing that nowadays, can't see much reason to enforce it nor an incentive to any more. Which begs the question why on earth would you want to play in a GW store any more, if that's your only option it's time to look into forming a club and renting out a village hall or the like, assuming you don't have a local or don't just play at home.

I could understand not wanting to use the models in a tournament (sort of), if you're worried about hiding them, but for general pickup games and the sheer gorgeousness of them as a centrepiece how could one say no, I mean the spider daemon comes to just shy of £41, the ancient, tiny and less than up to date (pretty ugly) keeper of secrets in finecast is £36 there's just no comparison.

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
I've also seen other comments about not being able to use them because they aren't GW models. I guess since I don't do tournaments, I have the luxury of using whatever I like, and I know I like these over other models I've seen (finecast/metal keeper o secrets, newer version is ugly in my opinion, I have one of the older ones that is more four armed Minotaur with boobs).

I wish I had more funds to throw down on these now, but I'll get more once they are at retail .

I'm surprised at anyone thinking they can't use a model because it isn't GW, I've not heard of anywhere but GW stores and Warhammer World enforcing that nowadays, can't see much reason to enforce it nor an incentive to any more. Which begs the question why on earth would you want to play in a GW store any more, if that's your only option it's time to look into forming a club and renting out a village hall or the like, assuming you don't have a local or don't just play at home.

I could understand not wanting to use the models in a tournament (sort of), if you're worried about hiding them, but for general pickup games and the sheer gorgeousness of them as a centrepiece how could one say no, I mean the spider daemon comes to just shy of £41, the ancient, tiny and less than up to date (pretty ugly) keeper of secrets in finecast is £36 there's just no comparison.

Its even less of a choice when you are using OZ pricing.
$100 or so for a sculpt from the 90s made of a material that bends under its own weight in our summer, or $70-80ish for something twice as big, four times as pretty, and made of a real material.

 jonolikespie wrote:

Spoiler:

 Ignatius-Grulgor wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
I've also seen other comments about not being able to use them because they aren't GW models. I guess since I don't do tournaments, I have the luxury of using whatever I like, and I know I like these over other models I've seen (finecast/metal keeper o secrets, newer version is ugly in my opinion, I have one of the older ones that is more four armed Minotaur with boobs).

I wish I had more funds to throw down on these now, but I'll get more once they are at retail .

I'm surprised at anyone thinking they can't use a model because it isn't GW, I've not heard of anywhere but GW stores and Warhammer World enforcing that nowadays, can't see much reason to enforce it nor an incentive to any more. Which begs the question why on earth would you want to play in a GW store any more, if that's your only option it's time to look into forming a club and renting out a village hall or the like, assuming you don't have a local or don't just play at home.

I could understand not wanting to use the models in a tournament (sort of), if you're worried about hiding them, but for general pickup games and the sheer gorgeousness of them as a centrepiece how could one say no, I mean the spider daemon comes to just shy of £41, the ancient, tiny and less than up to date (pretty ugly) keeper of secrets in finecast is £36 there's just no comparison.

Its even less of a choice when you are using OZ pricing.
$100 or so for a sculpt from the 90s made of a material that bends under its own weight in our summer, or $70-80ish for something twice as big, four times as pretty, and made of a real material.

Wow yeah that's definitely a no brainer then, it's always interesting how this international business affects prices, I skipped the secret weapon boards KS because even at KS prices it was more expensive than a realm of battle board over here. My finecast daemons bent under British summer heat last year in an indoor display case at least one room away from being outside, I hate to think what an Aussie summer does to the material.

I was just thinking while reading the "no gamesday 2014" thread. How about Jeremy designs the next "treasure demon" it could be a silver sized limited piece of work for conventions as a prize for best paint jobs. More humanoid(though the warrior demon in a different pose could work), instead of standing on a big rock it could stand on a treasure chest of gold holding a sword with both hands above its head. Holding the pommel and blade triumphantly claiming it. The demon could be available for sale too, but have the weapon be different. Or the contest version could be holding up a giant paintbrush and the retail have the sword.

Just a crazy idea, but it could get Jeremy/creature casters name out there more at larger cons.

23 hours left to go. Jeremy said he'd be live on the net the last hour of the campaign, sounds like fun. Hopefully the mothers in his life don't get too upset with him . But as he's birthing his second company it can be his day too I guess.

Is there general assumption that these models will be sold for retail after November of this year?

I pledged for a dragon, but I would eventually like to Pokemon them...

@theKbob, they will go retail after this is over, how quickly is unknown though. Shouldn't be long after, but he will fulfill the KS first.

Last moments of the campaign are under way. Everyone seems very well informed and happy, and this to me is the most important thing. This is the antithesis of the add-as-much-stuff-as-you-can campaign, and this has resulted in a very nice vibe around camp. Thank you very much to the ambassadors for helping spreading the word, and thank you to the Dakkaite for informative conversation and excellent feedback. I am basically going to be spending the next day thanking everyone profusely, so please bear with me.

I will be closing out the campaign live tomorrow. Links will be posted here, comment section, and facebook, It is mothers days, so I do not expect everyone to be there for that reason, but you can always watch the show later. If you miss it, just picture a person in a huddled ball on their living room floor, weeping and sobbing thru words of gratitude.

 Theophony wrote:
@necronlord3, I think your missing the conversion chart for pricing if you don see the difference in prices.
FW keeper of secrets, 165mm tall, 90.50£= $153usd. Shipping not included
CC spider demon, 160mm tall , $75CAD= $70usd. Shipping not included(but you'll get a free model also)
Both are roughly same size as the FW demon is measured to the to of her raised arm.

I understand your dilemma with them being larger targets and I'm not criticizing your decision, but couldn't you have these models be you centerpiece for a display, and field the other models so your not penalized for their size?

I've also seen other comments about not being able to use them because they aren't GW models. I guess since I don't do tournaments, I have the luxury of using whatever I like, and I know I like these over other models I've seen (finecast/metal keeper o secrets, newer version is ugly in my opinion, I have one of the older ones that is more four armed Minotaur with boobs).

I wish I had more funds to throw down on these now, but I'll get more once they are at retail .

No I'm referring to sources other than FW which produce the same models at a higher quality than FW/GW produces resin miniatures and at about half the price.

Also one of the best builds and strategies with Daemons right now, is to combine the with a skyshield landing pad. The space on that pad is limited and I want the smallest legal base size possible, not a larger model at a disadvantage.

 NecronLord3 wrote:

Also one of the best builds and strategies with Daemons right now, is to combine the with a skyshield landing pad. The space on that pad is limited and I want the smallest legal base size possible, not a larger model at a disadvantage.

The smallest legal base size for a Greater Daemon is 60mm, which all the Creature Caster demons fit on. Sure, the models are bigger, but they still fit on relatively small bases.

Comparing Creature Caster models to recasts isn't really fair (or even allowed on Dakka) Necronlord3. And if you're trying to minimize your LOS profile, these obviously aren't for you... the GW models probably are, though.

 RiTides wrote:
Comparing Creature Caster models to recasts isn't really fair (or even allowed on Dakka) Necronlord3. And if you're trying to minimize your LOS profile, these obviously aren't for you... the GW models probably are, though.

Get some of the original Greater Daemon models circa '89 in that case.

And rumor is you're getting new rules for VII, so who says true line of sight is even going to be in there.

Maybe you will go back to Herohammer, and you'll be wishing you had a 60mm bad ass cast....

 RiTides wrote:
Comparing Creature Caster models to recasts isn't really fair (or even allowed on Dakka) Necronlord3. And if you're trying to minimize your LOS profile, these obviously aren't for you... the GW models probably are, though.

I'm not comparing anything or publicly redirecting anyone to copyright infringing websites( per the Dakka rules). I am simply pointing out that their are alternatives to the FW models available at a cheaper price than even the creature caster models. The ultra forge models also fit this niche market by offering a product superior to the metal greater daemons available the time at a similar or cheaper price and definitely a cheaper alternative to FW. CC doesn't seem to be fulfilling a particular market need other than to have some cool daemon models. But as a player of 40k, I would only be using these models for that purpose, and therefore it doesn't appeal to me.

That is true. There are a variety of different price points. My stuff fits in between a few popular price points. There is no one-size-fits-all price.

I personally modify any LOS with a house rule that uses the base locations, not the bits sticking up. In my mind, an infantry miniature is a representation of an intelligent and trained agent that is crouching, flattening on walls, looking around corners, using cover, etc. That is just a personal view, and I understand that the leading tabletop systems use LOS rules.

My models aren't for everyone. I am okay with that

Well, if you do ever and up deciding to do centipede monster PM me, i am in need of a giant centipede monster.

Due to ongoing financial dilemmas, I'm about to drop a Silver EB.

Not going to pre-arrange it with anyone, but if you read this, it might get you there first.

Sorry to hear that, azrael, hope it works out okay for you!

Well if anything happens in the next few weeks I'm sure there's a few England based dakka dudes that might let you add onto their pledges.

TBH, they'll be available retail by the time I'm in a position to actually paint them!

It would have been nice to have saved a few quid, but I'm less gutted about this than the Mierce one which I had to drop from because of the same, as yet still unresolved, issue.

Thanks for the sentiments though!

Going to broadcast the final moments LIVE here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ej_9cEuxNo

Thank you Dakkaites.

These are so cool I wish I had use for one