Forgeworld 2014 News & Rumours - p#132 Questoris Knight Magaera

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**Marshal Loss**

Sasori wrote:
Did anyone spot anything related to the Gal Vorbak by any chance?

Apparently there were concept drawings being shown, and that they would hopefully be finished for the HH weekender

**Balance**

Snrub wrote:
You guys are daft. Alphs helmet is sweet as.

I assume the complaint is because his background is generally focused around being able to appear as any of his men, and that any of his legion are interchangeable parts in a machine.

**Tannhauser42**

Yeah, but Alpharius still needs a cool suit of armor to wear to the Primarchs' Victory Ball. Wouldn't want Fulgrim to score with all the ladies.

**gianlucafiorentini123**

TalonZahn wrote:
Eiríkr wrote:
O Mortarion Mortarion, wherefore art thou Mortarion?

Word around the tubes is that FW held back some stuff for May for the HH weekender.

Those same folks spreading the word seem to think he'll be making his appearance then.

It would be nice to get the four from the first book done, but I reckon they'll want to release a loyalist.

**Sasori**

Yodhrin wrote:
Sasori wrote:
We just need some Dark Mechanicus rules now...

I think I remember reading that "the plan" is to drip-feed basic Mechanicum forces into each book, then to release recognisably "evil" Mechanicum stuff when the battle for Mars gets its day. Which makes sense really, since until they open the Vaults of Moravec most of their dodgy inventions were either super-tip-top-secret like Kaban(ermahgerd FW better do a model for the Kaban Machine), or outwardly indistinguishable from regular Mechanicum tech in order to avoid arousing suspicion. It also means the bulk of both armies that will feature in the book will already have models.

Sadly, I think the closest we can expect the Mars events to get coverage is the last book of the second trilogy, but more likely the first or second book of the final trilogy, so it's years away

Interesting! Thanks.

Sucks we'll be waiting so long!

**Kanluwen**

Balance wrote:
Snrub wrote:
You guys are daft. Alphs helmet is sweet as.

I assume the complaint is because his background is generally focused around being able to appear as any of his men, and that any of his legion are interchangeable parts in a machine.

Well, from what I remember in "Legion" it's more that he is able to appear as any of his captains/basic troopers to the casual observer in universe. In game terms and to an omniscient observer there should be some kind of distinguishing features once he's been 'revealed'.

In my own personal opinion, I feel that the model of Alpharius should be visually distinctive. I like that helm design(I don't like the idea of transporting it though...lots of fiddly tiny bits that can fall off), especially since it seems that the hydra heads are going to be a 'feature' on all of the captains as well if the art is anything to go by.

**TiamatRoar**

It says Alpharius is supposed to be imposing and majestic after he reveals himself. Presumably that's when he switches helmets from an inconspicuous one to that crazy hydra helm, I guess.

**chaos0xomega**

I always understood that Alpharius blending in with the other Marines was more an illusory trick rather than him appearing as 'just another marine'. Much in the same way that the Emperor appears to be just a man when he first visits each Primarch and then reveals himself to be a luminous/messianic like figure instead

**Azreal13**

chaos0xomega wrote:
I always understood that Alpharius blending in with the other Marines was more an illusory trick rather than him appearing as 'just another marine'. Much in the same way that the Emperor appears to be just a man when he first visits each Primarch and then reveals himself to be a luminous/messianic like figure instead

This is a distinct possibility, it's logically consistent (as all the Primarchs are supposedly expressions of elements of the Emperor's abilities) and dovetails nicely with how Corax's "invisibility" is rumoured to work too.

**Haighus**

First0f0ne wrote:Also I'm a little disappointed Perturabo's robots have not been seen.

warboss wrote:Any word on whether Perturbo gets the option to use the Mechanicum robots as a bodyguard like in the novels?

On the equipment listed for him a few pages back, he comes with a cortex controller, so he can control a unit of robots taken in the normal way as outlined in Book 2 (one cohort per legion list I believe). As Perturabo is also an independent character, I think he would be able to join the cohort because the unit can contain more than one model. Therefore he can have the bodyguard.

Just checked- robot battle-maniples may be taken as an elites choice for the Legion list so long as at least 1 HQ in the force is equipped with a cortex controller.

sonofruss wrote:
Malika2 wrote:
Hmm, makes me wonder: I really hope FW will model helmets for the Primarchs! Imagine what kinda helmets these guys would wear...

We have already seen Lemans helmet Ulric wears it.

And the Lion helm carried by Azrael's pet watcher in the dark for El'Jonson

**NoggintheNog**

azreal13 wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
I always understood that Alpharius blending in with the other Marines was more an illusory trick rather than him appearing as 'just another marine'. Much in the same way that the Emperor appears to be just a man when he first visits each Primarch and then reveals himself to be a luminous/messianic like figure instead

This is a distinct possibility, it's logically consistent (as all the Primarchs are supposedly expressions of elements of the Emperor's abilities) and dovetails nicely with how Corax's "invisibility" is rumoured to work too.

It is also the way the rules work, as described by someone earlier in the thread.

You replace a normal model with his within a unit when you reveal him. It therefore doesn't matter if his actual model is ostentatious, if anything it makes the rules make more sense.

**warboss**

Haighus wrote:

On the equipment listed for him a few pages back, he comes with a cortex controller, so he can control a unit of robots taken in the normal way as outlined in Book 2 (one cohort per legion list I believe). As Perturabo is also an independent character, I think he would be able to join the cohort because the unit can contain more than one model. Therefore he can have the bodyguard.

Ah.. thanks, I missed the cortex controller. Are the robots different than the legio cybernetica Castellax ones? The bodyguard in the novels were Colossus robots but that obviously could easily be changed and using castellax ones is an acceptable alternative as well.

**Haighus**

warboss wrote:
Haighus wrote:

On the equipment listed for him a few pages back, he comes with a cortex controller, so he can control a unit of robots taken in the normal way as outlined in Book 2 (one cohort per legion list I believe). As Perturabo is also an independent character, I think he would be able to join the cohort because the unit can contain more than one model. Therefore he can have the bodyguard.

Ah.. thanks, I missed the cortex controller. Are the robots different than the legio cybernetica Castellax ones? The bodyguard in the novels were Colossus robots but that obviously could easily be changed and using castellax ones is an acceptable alternative as well.

The rules in book 2 just say any single robot maniple. As of the printing of book 2 that just meant Castellax (because they were the only existing robot rules at the time), but there may be new robot cohort options in book 3 and later books that you could also use.

**STC_LogisEngine**

Alpharius remember, (well ghee, this is going to get confusing fast

) that the first generations of the XX Legion where a lot larger than their younger bretheren and by the time of the Heresy those that survive have risen to the higher ranks of the Legions echelons like Captains, Laernan & Effrit specialists and routinely pose as the Primarch when needed.

However, also remember that Alpharius -do- have a suit of silly ornate armor that he, Omegon or a suitable Legionary on occation wears when it's suitable. He does not always wear the plain Mk4 of a line trooper, just.. often.

I kind of like the helmet, a bit over the top but then the suit was described to be quite over the top.

Exodus is however a dream come true for me, just the kind of character I want for my army.

**dantay_xv**

In one of the HH stories, doesnt he hunt down a merchant or tech magus who is an operative? He uses some sort of technological device as a disguise which he and others attach the to he guys servitors to freak him out and capture him... It was a story where Alpharius' legionnaries are sent on a mission to destroy one of their own bases which is populated with psykers, I am sure of it.. in 1 of the anthologies... He could use that at any time to move unseen I guess.

**Fayric**

If superman can pull of the Kent/Superman deal with just a pair of glasses I think Alpharius could do it with a simple switch of helmets.
Honestly.

**warboss**

Fayric wrote:
If superman can pull of the Kent/Superman deal with just a pair of glasses I think Alpharius could do it with a simple switch of helmets.
Honestly.

And that is based the Superman/Kent pair of glasses disguise not being considered ridiculous by most people and a commonly made fun of cheesey excuse? I don't think that is a good assumption to make.

A group of mundane identical XX Legion marines walks up to human commander of a world they're bringing into compliance... suddenly one puts on his extra special hat that grants superpowers and *shazam* he's a primarch!

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

I prefer to think of it like something from 'The Thing',

One of the marines starts screaming and rips himself in half armour and all and out steps Alpharius, taller, more awesome and in fancier armour, casually kicking the discarded husk away.

None of the other marines take any notice of this

**Tannhauser42**

warboss wrote:

A group of mundane identical XX Legion marines walks up to human commander of a world they're bringing into compliance... suddenly one puts on his extra special hat that grants superpowers and *shazam* he's a primarch!

I don't know, sometimes it seems to work quite well.

**shamroll**

Did anyone happen to see what the new mechanicus tanks stats or abilities were?

**Ifurita**

You just need to model one of the vanilla marines with a pair of glasses.

**Malika2**

Some more info on the Imperial Fists:

Early Years

-1st Battalions were created from across Terra, even in domains where other legions
had ‘Rights of Tithe’
-Recruits were selected from those with the greatest endurance, mentally and physically
-Many were taciturn, slow to talk but quick to act
-Used a wide pool because the VII legion geneseed implantation was painful than other legions
-Described as grim
-Focused on conquest of new systems
-Described as seeing the whole vision of the Imperium, conquering and then holding what was conquered (unlike most other legions)
-Though they excelled at building and garrisoning, their real calling was Crusading
-They would leave well ordered compliant cities in their wake, but were always on the move (massive recruiting efforts sustained them)
-Massed shock assaults were the VII Legions preferred tactics, often with multiple battalions taking to the field.
-Everytime the broke a noncompliant world, they left behind something stronger
-Emperor personally gave them the name the Imperial Fists after their earliest lands they conquered ‘looked as if the Emperor had grasped them in his Fist’

Inwit

-When the Legion reunited with Dorn, there was no culture shift, it just reinforced traits already present because of Dorn’s upbringing on Inwit
-Orbits a red star
-Tidally locked
-Surrounded by a vast network of shipyards and space fortresses, master ship builders
-The people are the worlds only resource, their martial nature led to them conquering a massive tract of space before the coming of the Emperor
-Mixture of Space Prussian Ice Hives and nomadic Eskimos
-Every world was conquered, assimilated, and reinforced but the masters of the world kept their people living in the old ways so they wouldn’t give up their strengths through opulence
-Rogal grew up apart of House Dorn of the Ice Caste, and became Emperor of the Inwit Cluster
-Dorn grew the empire more than any other Emperor, reorganized and trained its armies, and engineered advanced space craft
-When Dorn and the Emperor reunited, the Emperor welcomed a massive and strong empire into his Imperium forged into a tool of war.

Primarch and Legion Reunite
-The Imperial Fists were the Crusaders of the Imperial Truth
-Dorn was calculating, but once committed to an action saw it through to the end
-His rare bursts of emotion were were ‘capable of shaking the ground and darkening
the sun’
-Dorn had a incident with Kurze and a brief falling out with Ferrus Manus because
of his unseen brooding that others couldn’t pick up on
-The integration of the Primarch and Legion was faster than others: When he first
met them, he said nothing until he saw them in battle and told them they had
much to do, and more to learn.
-He gave honor of the rank of High Castellan of the Inwit Cluster to the Legion Master,
tasked him with raising 30 regiments of legionaries, and immediately set
out on the Crusade
-They didn’t draw any riches from conquered worlds like other legions, just recruits.
They recruited as many as the Ultramarine and Word Bearers, but the
trials of initiation were so hard and the geneseed implantation so mentally
and physically painful it killed many.
-New companies were sometimes completely comprised of recruits from cultures
that would get diluted over time

Favored Sons

-As the great crusade continued the Imperial Fists were highly honored and favored
by the Emperor
-When other legions were unable to continue forward, the Emperor would use
the Imperial Fists to regain the initiative, when the frontlines swung back against
the Imperials, the Fists would lead the counter thrust, stalemates and deadlocked
sieges were similarly broken by the Fists.
-They won more personal honors from the Emperor than any other legion
-Their favored treatment, mixed with Dorn’s personality caused some Primarchs
(mostly the traitor Primarchs, to regard him as hubristic and arrogant)
to dislike him, and again his stubbornness wouldn’t allow him to mend
bridges (his biggest flaw IMO).
-The Emperor would task Dorn with ensuring post-conquest compliances were
achieved according to his exact vision
-To many worlds, they considered the Imperial Fists the rock on which the foundations
of the Imperium were built
-Dorn’s mannerisms drew admiration from many as often as it drew their ire (the
Stannis Baratheon of Primarchs)
-Even though Dorn was so highly favored, the Emperor passed right over him for
Warmaster, primarily because of his Draconian and stubborn personality. When
in command, Dorn’s personality would cause friction, unlike Horus who
could get a team together.
-The Emperor instead honored Dorn by making him Praetorian, and it is implicated
that because Horus was given control of compliance and Dorn went
home with the Emperor, that ‘the fate of the Emperor and all his Sons was
set’

Unit Organization and Structure

-Retained Belicosa pattern
-Schism in predominant units: Assault units backed by special weapon units and
heavy support squads. Favorite heavy weapons: Missile Launchers and Lascannons.
-Heavy proponents of Terminator Armor, with large numbers of all 3 patterns.
Get early assault cannons and super storm shields
-Regiment/Crusade/Household to Battaltion to Company to Squad organization
flow
-Templars: Named as the Guardians of the secular Temple of Oaths aboard the
Phalanx. Only Templars can enter as they please
-The Templars were the nominal 1st Company and their commander was always
2nd in command of the Legion
-There was no fixed ‘inner circle’ like the Mournival or 10 Lord Commanders of
the III Legion
-Technically there was nothing between the Dorn and his Captains, but a level
of subdivided command (fleet and siege masters, theatre commanders, and
Marshals)
-Fleet Masters were in charge of the fleet in a campaign, siege masters were in
ultimate command in sieges. These titles were appointed and technically answerable
only to the Primarch himself
-The 1st Captain was the only person outside the Primarch who had unconditional
authority over the legion.
-Castellans and Seneschals commanded fortresses, but retained the title after returning
to the Crusade efforts

War Disposition
-Bulk of IF’s were returning to Terra
-The Fists were never a huge legion, its attrition rates were balanced with its massive
recruitment, which is why they didn’t meet the UM or WB numbers with
similar numbers of recruits
-Estimated to be around 100,000 strong at the outbreak of the Heresy.
-Had a fleet of over 1500 ships and many more bonded by fealty.
-Many of the Fists ships were of the largest classes in the Imperium. Even the Sons
of Horus and Ultramarines didn’t have as many.

Dorn vs Perturabo
-Both were taciturn, both unyielding, both sublime artisans of war
-Instantly disliked one another from their first meeting
-Pattern of interaction might explain the animosity
-Both were stubborn and more so when challenged, spoke rarely, and were brooding
(but Dorn is noted as doing so without others noticing)
-The silence of one would aggravate the other, the blunt honesty would rouse the
other to anger, and once the dispute was begun neither would yield
-Very alike, but the areas of difference might’ve caused the rift: Both favored siege
craft, both were pragmatic in nature, but Perturabo would be brutally direct
and not care about casualties. Dorn wouldn’t baulk at high casualties if there
was no other way, but Perturabo viewed Legionaries as expendable.
-Summed up as a series of pressures, disparities, perceived slights, mischances,
and the two Primarch’s stubborn natures that perpetuated the animosity
more than any event.

Fortresses in the Stars
-The greatest fortresses built by the Fists were star forts
-Imperial Fists relished void war
-Greatest sieges of the Great Crusade were in the void, peerless in high- intensity
void war and ship-to-ship combat
-Treated their ships like fortresses free from gravity
-Dorn rebuilt the phalanx from a massive wreck orbiting Inwit and gave it to the
Emperor
-The Phalanx was more powerful than whole battlefleets and was a lynchpin of

Source: http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?showtopic=1264

**Theophony**

Ifurita wrote:
You just need to model one of the vanilla marines with a pair of glasses.

Or until the Alpharius model comes out have a model with magnets inside and a magnetized baby to attach to it to represent him hidden and revealed.

**Balance**

Tannhauser42 wrote:
Yeah, but Alpharius still needs a cool suit of armor to wear to the Primarchs' Victory Ball. Wouldn't want Fulgrim to score with all the ladies.

I'd figure for this situation he'd have a set of duplicate armor created to allow him to mimic any of the other Primarchs as needed, then execute a complex plan to wear every set through the evening. No one would know he was ever there, and he'd gather priceless rumors about the other primarch's personal hygiene habits.

I thought the Horus Heresy novels established that 'he' was physically a lot smaller than the other Primarchs, the better to fit in with this legion. I could totally see a rule like the old WHFB Dark Eldar Assin rule to let him pop up in any of his troop's squads, and I personally think it would've been neat to see more models that make the 'standard' Space Marine aesthetic look cool instead of adding tons of baroque detail to the design. Then again, I don't play 40k, so...

**Alpharius**

The Imperial Fists are the Masters of Void War?

I thought that was...everyone else too?

All kidding aside, wasn't that the Night Lords, or was that just that one ship from the series that ADB wrote?

**barnowl**

Haighus wrote:
warboss wrote:
Haighus wrote:

On the equipment listed for him a few pages back, he comes with a cortex controller, so he can control a unit of robots taken in the normal way as outlined in Book 2 (one cohort per legion list I believe). As Perturabo is also an independent character, I think he would be able to join the cohort because the unit can contain more than one model. Therefore he can have the bodyguard.

Ah.. thanks, I missed the cortex controller. Are the robots different than the legio cybernetica Castellax ones? The bodyguard in the novels were Colossus robots but that obviously could easily be changed and using castellax ones is an acceptable alternative as well.

The rules in book 2 just say any single robot maniple. As of the printing of book 2 that just meant Castellax (because they were the only existing robot rules at the time), but there may be new robot cohort options in book 3 and later books that you could also use.

His wargear entry listed the Logos and rules for them. Not sure about models though.

**Malika2**

Alpharius wrote:
The Imperial Fists are the Masters of Void War?

I thought that was...everyone else too?

All kidding aside, wasn't that the Night Lords, or was that just that one ship from the series that ADB wrote?

I always thought the Death Guard were also the masters of void war...

As for the Night Lords, that was just that one character from the ADB novels.

**Alpharius**

The Death Guard as Masters of Void War?

Really?

I don't I've ever read that - and it doesn't really seem to fit.

But sure, whatever!

**Darth Bob**

I'm really digging Alpharius' look, myself. Would I like an non-helmeted head as well? Sure; but I think the artwork presented is pretty awesome.

**Haighus**

barnowl wrote:

His wargear entry listed the Logos and rules for them. Not sure about models though.

The Logos includes the piece of wargear that allows him to personally control robots, but robots are actually available to any legion list if they upgrade their forge lords (and apparently techmarines and praetors for IW) with the piece of wargear, which is a cortex controller.