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 Alpharius wrote:
The Knight Lancer?

Too tall!

WTF?!?

Aye. It should be taller than the Paladin/Errant certainly, but any true Titan class vehicle, even the Warhound, should still look suitably imposing next to it, which they will not with this kit. People can bring up Epic, but they took enough liberties with other aspects of the design on the new Knights that the difference in height between the classes being a wee bit smaller is hardly an untenable suggestion. Even if you reduced the size of the new Lancer by 25% in all dimensions, it would still look tall and lanky in comparison to the plastic Knight, without appearing to drift into full-sized Titan territory.

Since I can't afford to waste half of a plastic Knight kit to convert more appropriate legs, and reducing the height of the Lancer's legs would make them look too bulky, this has gone from "Ooooohh, waaaant" to "meh" for me.

Guys, this thing is still TINY compared to a warhound titan. They might be about the same height ( I believe the Lancer will still be 1-2 inches shorter), but the Warhound has BULK. The only people this will affect are those of you who chose to use your Dreamforge Leviathans as Warhound Titans. This is about the same size as the Leviathan, which is, has been, and always will be too damned small to properly represent a Warhound.

Reference images of Leviathan vs Warhound:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Guys, this thing is still TINY compared to a warhound titan. They might be about the same height ( I believe the Lancer will still be 1-2 inches shorter), but the Warhound has BULK. The only people this will affect are those of you who chose to use your Dreamforge Leviathans as Warhound Titans. This is about the same size as the Leviathan, which is, has been, and always will be too damned small to properly represent a Warhound.

Reference images of Leviathan vs Warhound:

Spoiler:

If it is equivalent to the Warhound in some dimensions, it is not "tiny" by comparison, merely slender by comparison, and IMO that's not enough there should be a clear distinction between Knights and true Titans. With the change to the relative proportions in the new Knight models(smaller head & cockpit moved to the torso, design cues from the Reaver) when compared to the Epic aesthetic, it also looks comically oversized next to the plastic Knight.

EDIT: To explain it another way - the Lancer looks like it could take on a Warhound 1v1 and stand a chance of winning, but they shouldn't even be in the same league. A small pack of Lancers? Sure that should threaten a Titan, but it should be obvious at first-glance that everything else being equal, any true Titan would massacre a solo Knight.

 Yodhrin wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Guys, this thing is still TINY compared to a warhound titan. They might be about the same height ( I believe the Lancer will still be 1-2 inches shorter), but the Warhound has BULK. The only people this will affect are those of you who chose to use your Dreamforge Leviathans as Warhound Titans. This is about the same size as the Leviathan, which is, has been, and always will be too damned small to properly represent a Warhound.

Reference images of Leviathan vs Warhound:

Spoiler:

If it is equivalent to the Warhound in some dimensions, it is not "tiny" by comparison, merely slender by comparison, and IMO that's not enough there should be a clear distinction between Knights and true Titans. With the change to the relative proportions in the new Knight models(smaller head & cockpit moved to the torso, design cues from the Reaver) when compared to the Epic aesthetic, it also looks comically oversized next to the plastic Knight.

EDIT: To explain it another way - the Lancer looks like it could take on a Warhound 1v1 and stand a chance of winning, but they shouldn't even be in the same league. A small pack of Lancers? Sure that should threaten a Titan, but it should be obvious at first-glance that everything else being equal, any true Titan would massacre a solo Knight.

Its only equivalent to a warhound in height dimension. height does not a titan make, see also Eldar Knights and Eldar Titans which are generally taller than their Imperial equivalents. If you honestly think that the Knight looks like its 'equivalent' to a warhound in size and/or mass, then you have a very warped (if not one dimensional) sense of scale. The warhound should easily outmass the lancer in bulk 2:1 or 3:1 or more.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also worth noting that, IIRC, the Lancer, specifically, is meant to go toe to toe with smaller titans, hence the lance weapon.

 Yodhrin wrote:

Aye. It should be taller than the Paladin/Errant certainly, but any true Titan class vehicle, even the Warhound, should still look suitably imposing next to it, which they will not with this kit. People can bring up Epic, but they took enough liberties with other aspects of the design on the new Knights that the difference in height between the classes being a wee bit smaller is hardly an untenable suggestion. Even if you reduced the size of the new Lancer by 25% in all dimensions, it would still look tall and lanky in comparison to the plastic Knight, without appearing to drift into full-sized Titan territory.

OK, here we go; Lancer reduced to 7" (17%) and 7.5" (10%). Reducing it 25% makes it the same height as the Paladin, so is a bit too much.
Seems to work at both of these heights. 7.25" might work well too. Modeling wise this does not help much except to give an idea on how tall the Lancer might want to be.

Is anyone else doing the old super mario bros noise you get when eating the mushroom after looking at that pic? Will FW also be coming out with a Raccoon variant knight as well?

Tanuki titan knights?? Madness! Pure madness!

timd wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Aye. It should be taller than the Paladin/Errant certainly, but any true Titan class vehicle, even the Warhound, should still look suitably imposing next to it, which they will not with this kit. People can bring up Epic, but they took enough liberties with other aspects of the design on the new Knights that the difference in height between the classes being a wee bit smaller is hardly an untenable suggestion. Even if you reduced the size of the new Lancer by 25% in all dimensions, it would still look tall and lanky in comparison to the plastic Knight, without appearing to drift into full-sized Titan territory.

OK, here we go; Lancer reduced to 7" (17%) and 7.5" (10%). Reducing it 25% makes it the same height as the Paladin, so is a bit too much.
Seems to work at both of these heights. 7.25" might work well too. Modeling wise this does not help much except to give an idea on how tall the Lancer might want to be.

You're right enough 25% would be too wee. The 7" picture is almost exactly what I imagined the scale would be when I saw the first couple of pictures; it's obviously taller and more slender, but it still looks like it belongs to the same class of vehicle.

And chaos0xomega, if as you admit it is equivalent to the Warhound in respect of height, then it is not as you originally stated "TINY". Whether the Warhound has greater mass is irrelevant, because the similarity in height alone is enough to imply a level of parity between them. You bring up the Eldar titans, but the fact they look like Titans despite being tall and thinner than Imperial offerings lines up pretty well with the argument I'm making; the Lancer is tall enough that despite it's slight build it still looks more like a Titan than a Knight. Also, I can find no fluff, old or new, that states the Lancer is designed to go up against Titan-scale enemies, it's specifically referred to as being a light and agile suit designed for outflanking, holding up enemies long enough for the heavier Knights to arrive, and scouting.

Alot of crybaby in this thread. Plastic knights weren't tall enough. And now the resin is too big.

Just goes to show you can never please wargamers. And people wonder why GW doesn't really communicate with its audience.

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
Alot of crybaby in this thread. Plastic knights weren't tall enough. And now the resin is too big.

Just goes to show you can never please wargamers. And people wonder why GW doesn't really communicate with its audience.

Its almost like there are different people who like different things...

Crazy.

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
Alot of crybaby in this thread. Plastic knights weren't tall enough. And now the resin is too big.

Just goes to show you can never please wargamers. And people wonder why GW doesn't really communicate with its audience.

God forbid people have an opinion on the internet.

Height does not at all imply parity, height is merely a measure of how tall the damned thing is. Go take a look at the Wraithknight, its about as tall as a Warhound, are you telling me that its equivalent based on its HEIGHT???

Are you telling me that a 6'-3" tall 120lb man would be equal in strength and power to a 6'-3" tall 200lb man?

timd wrote:

Spoiler:

Use this to figure your size comparisons for now - it's not perfect, but it's pretty easy to see that the Warhound is still taller, and the Lancer gets nowhere near it in terms of bulk. I do like this FW Knight much more than the GW one.

timd wrote:

 aka_mythos wrote:
I want the photo of the Lancer with a Riptide and Wraithknight just so we can confirm how much this towers over them. :p

It's certainly bigger than I imagined. I have no problem with it being the 10" tall it appears to be.

I scaled it from that photo and it came out a bit under 8.5" tall. Its nowhere near 10" tall. It will be a half inch+ shorter than the WraithKnight.

T

You're right. I was just remembering it as just over 7" instead of just over 6" and thinking the lancer was about 30-40% taller. My point was just simply some people have voiced their issue with its long slender profile and that I really don't take issue with it given what it does.

In the new fluff Knight Barons are simply suppose to be personalized and modified Lancers so it will be interesting to see if FW gives us rules, upgrades, or model kits to represent that, or if we are expected to simply apply senechal bonuses to the Lancer and call it a day.

I want the photo of the Lancer with a Riptide and Wraithknight just so we can confirm how much this towers over them. :p

It's certainly bigger than I imagined. I have no problem with it being the 10" tall it appears to be. This is suppose to be the Titan hunting variant and thus it makes sense that'd it'd be closer in size to a Titan. It seems that FWs concept is to play with the proportions of the knight for the different classes.

Over on Warseer I found this interesting:

OuroborosTriumphant;7114981 wrote:At the open day, I talked briefly to Daren Parrwood, the sculptor of the Lancer. He said that he has done some concept art for the third chassis, stout and stocky in the same way the Lancer is tall and gangly and is lobbying hard to be allowed to sculpt it because he really enjoys working on Knights but he has not yet had the go-ahead from on-high. There are, apparently, alternative weapons in the works for the Paladin/Errant chassis. He referred to the stouter chassis as the Warden chassis; someone asked about Crusaders and Castellans and he said that he envisioned them as alternate weapon loadouts for the stouter chassis, the same way the Paladin and the Errant share a chassis and are differentiated by weapons.

Really nice guy who seemed genuinely enthusiastic about Knights. Real pleasure to meet him.

It seems like the guy who is doing FW's knight sculpts has the idea they'll be doing a variety of add-ons and variants.

 aka_mythos wrote:
I want the photo of the Lancer with a Riptide and Wraithknight just so we can confirm how much this towers over them. :p

It's certainly bigger than I imagined. I have no problem with it being the 10" tall it appears to be.

I scaled it from that photo and it came out a bit under 8.5" tall. Its nowhere near 10" tall. It will be a half inch+ shorter than the WraithKnight.

T

 Yodhrin wrote:
Also, I can find no fluff, old or new, that states the Lancer is designed to go up against Titan-scale enemies, it's specifically referred to as being a light and agile suit designed for outflanking, holding up enemies long enough for the heavier Knights to arrive, and scouting.

I don't know about fluff, but it's FW rules mean it can close really quickly, gives it a SD melee weapon, a 5++ save in combat and a -1 to hit penalty on an enemy super heavy or gargantuan creatures attacks in close combat. That seems pretty focused on super-heavy hunting to me.

Didn't the old fluff state that these things would, because of their weapons, try to take on larger Titans?

Looks like the Dark Eldar Raven Fighter is missing from the new Catalogue. It's not the best model in the world, but would be nice if they got some love

 Blacksails wrote:

 HisDivineShadow wrote:
Alot of crybaby in this thread. Plastic knights weren't tall enough. And now the resin is too big.

Just goes to show you can never please wargamers. And people wonder why GW doesn't really communicate with its audience.

Its almost like there are different people who like different things...

Crazy.

Especially on a discussion forum, of all places!

Unfortunately, I think HisDivineShadow is due to face a lot of disappointment going forward.

Oh well!

Anyone going to Adepticon this weekend? This is my second attempt at securing a shoppining ninja for the istvaan collection lol.

I'll be there in person attempting to get that for myself, after failing via my first Ninja Shopping Attempt!

Forgeworld newsflash just out. Looks like they intend to sell all the limited edition books before they even go up for general preorder as they can be preordered for salute and adepticon. Anyone want to pick me up one?

 Alpharius wrote:
I'll be there in person attempting to get that for myself, after failing via my first Ninja Shopping Attempt!

Failure! I'll also be there, but have a tournament Friday, so I'll probably miss it.


*Sad Kronk Face*

 Alpharius wrote:
I'll be there in person attempting to get that for myself, after failing via my first Ninja Shopping Attempt!

Alpharius, if I paypal you cash plus shipping plus finders fee can you help a brother out?

EDIT: PM inbound.

I kind of like the Lancer, the head is a tad goofy but it might be the camera angels.

More to the point is how I am going to ward off a mental breakdown from having to wait another month for my book of yummy alpha legion crack?

Since people are talking about it. Here is all three models side by Side. With a bloodthirster for good measure

 Sirius42 wrote:
Forgeworld newsflash just out. Looks like they intend to sell all the limited edition books before they even go up for general preorder as they can be preordered for salute and adepticon. Anyone want to pick me up one?

I really wanted one...

So, looking through the new catalogue, I've spotted some upcoming stuff:

- New combi-weapon set
- Emperors children torso upgrades
- Tech-thralls with Mitralocks

You can't pre-order them for Salute, first-come first-served on the day.

I know cos I just tried