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Can people help me out here? If I bought a falchion for my imperial fists, would the rules and points translate to normal 40k or does horus heresy have any unique rules or different points costings? Same goes for Dorn as he was around long after the heresy to lead my army.

 Commander_Farsight wrote:

 Enigma Crisis wrote:
I haven't actually seen the rules for it but I really enjoy the look of the Fire Raptor.

I sent an email to FW asking why the GKs aren't included in the list for who can field the Fire Raptor. Hopefully they can provide a good explanation. Is there something I'm missing? Like is there already a fluff reason or something?

The reasoning could be as simple as no psychic pilot rule.

 monkeypuzzle wrote:
Can people help me out here? If I bought a falchion for my imperial fists, would the rules and points translate to normal 40k or does horus heresy have any unique rules or different points costings? Same goes for Dorn as he was around long after the heresy to lead my army.

Worst case you could always switch to the legion list for your Imp. Fists.

 monkeypuzzle wrote:
Can people help me out here? If I bought a falchion for my imperial fists, would the rules and points translate to normal 40k or does horus heresy have any unique rules or different points costings? Same goes for Dorn as he was around long after the heresy to lead my army.

Currently the Falchion only has 30k rules. They're compatible with 40k if your opponent is willing to let you use it, but they're not officially part of 40k. Fairness-wise it certainly wouldn't be any worse than the broken stuff you can already take in 40k.

Was lucky enough to get to Salute the weekend. was only planning to pick up HH book 3 but in true hobby fashion had to get the some more Mechanicum stuff. Still haven't picked a Legion so mars it is for now

Managed to get a few minutes chatting to one of the forge world guys towards the end of the day which was very generous of him as those guys and girls were run of their feet all day. A lot of this stuff has been said elsewhere but id thought id put it here in case people haven't seen this stuff. Thanks again to the Forgeworld guys and the Salute staff for an awesome day.


Horus Heresy-

The guys were saying that the original plan was for Prospero to be next but that may change for a couple of reasons. Play testing has been complicated with the Prospero book as TS have been difficult to do as they won't to represent the legion properly (everyone a psyker, etc) but without making it as simple as the rules for say, Grey Knights. Plus the Adeptus Custodes and SoS rules have to be balanced to not make them too OTT and OP.

The other reason is a potential business one (fair enough. There not a charity) If they did Calth next that obviously brings in imperial Army. The guy was saying that FW isn't naive enough to think that people will pay out for all resin IA sized armies so the plastic range will be fully compatible. Thus FW will be able to say to the literally thousands of guard 40k players, "if the cost has put you off before, you have a ready made 30k army sat there already"

FW already has an extensive IG resin range already done and on the website. there will be specific Heresy era tanks and infantry to give a "great crusade feel" The other more, hobbyish reason was that it would allow people to play with 30k rules in a kinda great crusade scenario, playing a legion fighting a human empire using STC tech.


Multiple Models-

The plan is over the expanse of the the books (more on that below) is that there will be multiple versions of some characters. Horus on the battle barge, daemon primarchs, Khan on a bike etc. He did emphasise that this was the general idea and no firm plans existed.

Extent of books-

He brought up a good point, saying that FW considers this a ten year project, at minimum. given the current pace of two books per year (not guaranteed but what they are aiming at) thats potentially a twenty volume saga. Given that we are at book three and the three books we have confirmed as happening at some point, Calth, Prospero and a Mars book, that inside of six books they shall have-


15 outta of the 18 legions with only DA, BA and WS left.
Imperial Army
Adeptus Custodes
Sisters of Silence
Mechanicum
Dark Mechanicum


That leaves a whopping 14 books to expand upon. He was saying that individual legions would get expansions in terms of characters and units along the way plus other factions would come in along the way such as

Rogue Trader Militant- has been mentioned in all three books. Will be able to take other armies (AM, IA, Legions) as allies with special characters and certain Rogue Trader units to lead them.

Agents of emperor/warmaster- This has been mentioned in book one betrayal. He said this one was way in the future but would include the kinda things you could imagine assassins orders etc and would probably be more individual characters and units as allies rather then a army in its own right. I asked if Garro would be in there. Guy just smiled!! said that there were no specific plans but can't imagine that they wouldn't.

Im off to put those Secutors together in the sunshine

Wow, a ten year project?


Looks like there will be no shortage of shiny new models in the coming future.

Awwww damnit, I was perfectly willing to pay FW through the nose for an all-resin Imperial Army force, it's a bloody shame they're bottling it. Krieg/Elysian-scaled Geno Chiliad, Byzant Janizars, Lucifer Blacks, Regnault Thorns, Ouranti Draks, Prospero Spireguard etc etc would have looked fantastic, and them making new Imperial Army models would have made it much more likely we were going to get some cool and unique formations and fighting styles - instead it looks like we'll be getting slight variations on Imperial Guard and Cadian plastics

Well, maybe they'll do heads/torsos like they do with the Marines and IG players will just have to recycle the legs/arms.

Then again, it is just a rumor and FW might prove that wrong.

Think of it from their perspective; the HH legions were a big untapped market for GW, and GW to be quite frank. With an all-resin Imperial Army at forgeworld prices, FW would be competing with itself regarding its Elysian and Death Korps lines, and their Cadian modifications.

The people who would buy an IA force are, more likely than not, already Death Korps or Elysian or other Guard players. Rather than drawing new people in, they're working with a largely pre-existant customer base, and doubtlessly some additional draw, but not like what we saw with the Legions. Offering conversion kits, special units/tanks is much more palatable to the existant Guard players, and by structuring it that way, they've got a much larger potential customer base.

Let the Guard players use their blobs of men, and only make them buy the new shiney makes a certain amount of sense. If we can infer anything from their product line, neither the hostile-environment Cadians or Elysians have done as well as Krieg; the lines have never been wholly completed, or offered the same variation as Krieg, so I bet FW is concerned another whole resin Guard army would face the same challenges.

I think the Cadians would do well for an Imperial Army force anyway. They all look like they're wearing a very standardized, mass-produced, and decently high-tech armor with standard weaponry. Just the sort of thing to be produced in massive quantities during the Great Crusade.

Or, you know, you could use these guys instead.

10 years? Jeez, with the best will in the world I hope that doesn't mean 10 years of FW releases being almost exclusively Heresy-based. I say that as a marine player who likes the variety some of the new kits give to a 40k force, but likes everyone to get some FW goodness for their chosen faction.

In 10 years we'll have a catalogue of shoulderpads for each individual marine that participated in the Crusade/Heresy.

I'd like an Emperor figure before I turn 40 please.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Think of it from their perspective; the HH legions were a big untapped market for GW, and GW to be quite frank. With an all-resin Imperial Army at forgeworld prices, FW would be competing with itself regarding its Elysian and Death Korps lines, and their Cadian modifications.

The people who would buy an IA force are, more likely than not, already Death Korps or Elysian or other Guard players. Rather than drawing new people in, they're working with a largely pre-existant customer base, and doubtlessly some additional draw, but not like what we saw with the Legions. Offering conversion kits, special units/tanks is much more palatable to the existant Guard players, and by structuring it that way, they've got a much larger potential customer base.

Let the Guard players use their blobs of men, and only make them buy the new shiney makes a certain amount of sense. If we can infer anything from their product line, neither the hostile-environment Cadians or Elysians have done as well as Krieg; the lines have never been wholly completed, or offered the same variation as Krieg, so I bet FW is concerned another whole resin Guard army would face the same challenges.

I don't deny it's a logical course of action if your goal is to make money with the minimum of effort and risk, but I was hoping given the absolute reams of barely differentiated Legion products FW have been cranking out that they were committed to making the Heresy-era into its own thing, not just in terms of a ruleset but also in terms of having its own aesthetic. I also think that, while as I acknowledged it might be the "safe" path to profit, it's not necessarily the best path; the danger with going too far down the "don't compete with your own lines/it's bad if a customer buys product A instead of product B because it cannibalises sales" line of reasoning is that you take so much care to avoid losing potential sales of one of your products to another of your products that you end up losing potential sales of any of your products because your range doesn't offer people what they're looking for. GW made that mistake with Specialist Games - they were so concerned with the idea that someone might buy a Necromunda gang or a BFG fleet instead of a new 40K box that they took actions that were counterproductive; instead of someone buying a BFG box one month and a 40K box the next, they started buying a Firestorm Armada box one month and put in an order with Victoria Miniatures or Privateer Press the next, not just doubling the number of 40K they bought as GW had assumed. Offering up a distinct line of resin Imperial Army forces may indeed lead to some people buying them instead of DKoK or some other FW product, but it can just as easily lead to someone buying both in the long run where before they would just have bought the existing line, or to people who had no interest in the existing lines becoming new FW customers.

I have planned out incremental expenditure for the next three years for my Heresy-era Imperial Army project, I budgeted for an all-resin infantry force on the assumption we'd see unique and interesting Army regiments with interesting new weapons and ways of making war like those described in the HH novels; if FW aren't interested in making those models, I'm not just going to shrug and blow all that spending on a plastic Cadian(*boak*) or DKoK army, I'll look elsewhere and FW won't get my money at all. Now, I won't pretend that I'm a typical case, but I doubt I'm unique either.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I think the Cadians would do well for an Imperial Army force anyway. They all look like they're wearing a very standardized, mass-produced, and decently high-tech armor with standard weaponry. Just the sort of thing to be produced in massive quantities during the Great Crusade.

Or, you know, you could use these guys instead.

That's the thing though, if I wanted a standard mass-produced army of humans with lasguns, I'd collect 40K Cadians. I was hoping we'd see guys with a Moroccan/Turkish themed uniform fighting in formation with lascarbines and grav-pikes(Geno 52 Chiliad), or guys with psycho-reactive barbs that extrude from their carapace armour during combat(Regnault Thorns), or xeno-cavalry, or any number of other interesting and distinct forces. Plonking down a few platoons of decade-old plastic Cadians next to all the fantastic tanks, Mechanicum, and Legion units FW has/will produce for the Heresy-era just seems like a cop-out to me.

Its funny that out of the few non marine armies in the Horus Heresy books, FW is refusing to do as much to support one of the biggest. It didn't seem to matter to them that they were producing such large amount of redundancy with the marine stuff. Imperial Army in this era have a bit more unified feel to them aesthetically and access to some of the same tech as space marines. They'd need less than a twentieth the effort given to marines. A kit or two for the "Army" and some upgrade kits... then just whatever vehicles seem necessary. What seems proposed just seems lazy.

I don't ignore the fact there might not be as much demand, but I bet there is more demand for generic 30K Imperial army than there are for some of the random specialized legion specific units.

I wouldn't worry too much about how much love the Imp. Army will get. Worst case scenario, somebody else produces the parts to fill the demand if they won't do it.

I think conversion bits would be a good idea. Given what parts sell the best I'm sure they could expand on the range further. I know I would buy heaps of Prospero Spireguard despite having a significant IG army already.

Hydrapup wrote:
No its just Twin linked sadly :(

So it's exactly as we feared. Great.

 Commander Cain wrote:
I think conversion bits would be a good idea. Given what parts sell the best I'm sure they could expand on the range further. I know I would buy heaps of Prospero Spireguard despite having a significant IG army already.

That's kind of what I think they're aiming for. From the wording it seemed that they're not wanting to just do "Generic Imperial Army Riflemen" models, but they do want to do the more "elite" formations like the Prospero Spireguard or the Geno Cilliads, etc.

10 years? They should wrap it up in 4.

Trilogy 2:
Calth
Prospero
Mars

Trilogy 3:
[Important Blood Angel Conflict]
[Important Dark Angel conflict/return to Caliban]
[Spot Fires/Various scenarios and important conflicts across all Legions]

Trilogy 4:
Horus invades the Sol System.
The start of the invasion of Terra.
The end of the battle of Terra/Final showdown between E and H.

I get they want to make money, but if you stretch things out for too long you end up like Black Library, releasing limited edition novellas and pointless filler more often than they put out actual HH plot books.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

I get they want to make money, but if you stretch things out for too long you end up like Black Library, releasing limited edition novellas and pointless filler more often than they put out actual HH plot books.

It worked for Peter Jackson, and look how that is working out for The Hobbit miniature sales.

 d-usa wrote:
It worked for Peter Jackson, and look how that is working out for The Hobbit miniature sales.

Not even remotely similar.

Sounds more like Trilogy 2 will be:

Signus Prime - BA + DA storyline
Calth
Prospero

At least that's what I get putting together the hints from all over.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
10 years? They should wrap it up in 4.

I get they want to make money, but if you stretch things out for too long you end up like Black Library, releasing limited edition novellas and pointless filler more often than they put out actual HH plot books.

They can easily squeeze out a few more just taking into account edition changes over the period of the release. Probably smaller books, like the ones included in the HH3 limited edition, but every 4 years or so they will need to put out an updated "Forces of the Loyalist Legions" "Forces of the Chaos Legions" "Forces of the Mechanicum" "Forces of the Imperium"

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
10 years? They should wrap it up in 4.

Trilogy 2:
Calth
Prospero
Mars

Trilogy 3:
[Important Blood Angel Conflict]
[Important Dark Angel conflict/return to Caliban]
[Spot Fires/Various scenarios and important conflicts across all Legions]

Trilogy 4:
Horus invades the Sol System.
The start of the invasion of Terra.
The end of the battle of Terra/Final showdown between E and H.

I get they want to make money, but if you stretch things out for too long you end up like Black Library, releasing limited edition novellas and pointless filler more often than they put out actual HH plot books.

Well we're already into the 3rd year... That's 4 more years with what you've listed... Leaving 3 years or 6 books of their time unaccounted for. I know it's been floated that they might cover Chaos' retreat into the eye of terror and the Space Wolf pursuit.

The notion of it being a 10 year plan was something they said originally after book 2 but before they decided to step it upto 2 books a year. There thus leaves room for interpretation and a need for clarification. 3 more trilogies following book 2's release made sense. The step up in releases was that always part of the plan? If yes than the unknown books were part of this plan and likely just as good. If not, is it still a ten year plan or a ten year plan run at double the pace? As long as the quality is there I don't think it matters.

 xttz wrote:

 -Loki- wrote:
Hmm. Regarding the Tyranid they showed, it actually looks fairly tall. Knight equivalent bug?

I think it's more Hive Tyrant-sized, maybe slightly taller.

Knowing FW Nid rules though, it'll probably be a T5 infantry unit.

Compare the size of the name tag next to the legs to the Knight Lancer. The legs look only a little smaller than the Lancers legs, and the Lancer taller than the regular Knight. So I'm guessing Knight sized.

As for rules, they seem to be a bit better writing rules for gargantuan Tyranids, which if this is Knight sized, it surely will be gargantuan. Not much better, but their main weakness is how dumb D weapons are.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
I'd like an Emperor figure...

Seconded...

Where do the White Scars fit in to the book schedule?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
10 years? They should wrap it up in 4.

Trilogy 2:
Calth
Prospero
Mars

Trilogy 3:
[Important Blood Angel Conflict]
[Important Dark Angel conflict/return to Caliban]
[Spot Fires/Various scenarios and important conflicts across all Legions]

Trilogy 4:
Horus invades the Sol System.
The start of the invasion of Terra.
The end of the battle of Terra/Final showdown between E and H.

I get they want to make money, but if you stretch things out for too long you end up like Black Library, releasing limited edition novellas and pointless filler more often than they put out actual HH plot books.

I'd personally be disappointed if the battle of terra was only spread over 2 books. So so so much went on there with so many different legions and other forces in totally different places of the planet.

Well part of the Siege of Terra is Horus getting to Terra in the first place.