Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys
What's seer bike council anyway? and why are people saying its powerful? And what makes it powerful?


Thanks!

The stacking of psychic powers (fortune, shroud, prescience, invisibility) and conferred abilities (mainly from the baron's stealth, 2++, assault grenades ) on some of the fastest moving platforms in the game, and when time comes for combat , high initiative and 2+ wounding with the enemy debuffed to hell while your buffed to all hell

Farseer with Jetbike combined with several Warlocks, also on Jetbikes.

Let's assume you take Farseer + 4 Warlocks
You now have:

- Seven wounds.
- Five models who each have 3+ armor, 4+ Inv and Jink.
- Each model can move up to 48" in turn.
- Each model can shoot two twin-linked pseudo-rending bolters.
- Each can buy fleshbane weapon for five points.
- They look fabulous.
- Each is a goddamn psyker and four of them have primaris power that will give them shrouded (hinthint Jink + Shrouded = immortality) and psychic power that gives them 2+ armor.
- Their codex happens to be Codex: Eldar.

Pretty much those.
In conclusion, they have all three things that a good unit has:
Mobility (lots of it), survability (lots of it) and power (lots of it).

The guns they posses ( bolters aren't 12 inches last I checked, and 1 in 6 blade storm wounds doesn't call for foul as most would have you believe ) are far from the issue

The problem really stems from the unit have a tank with a 2++ rerollable invulnerable save (baron), followed by trying to score some of the key debuffs from the warlock lore, before trading a few down for shroud, ( their ld 8 psykers so still less than guaranteed )

It becomes a mess when both farseers get the god powers between them both ( fortune and invisibility, though only fortune is the real necessity) if you have seen how the screamer star functions this isn't much different really, it abuses a unit full of 2+ reroll cover and invulnerable and zooms around contesting and picking apart units / vehicles

Things have changed honestly with the advent of escalation as a d weapon laughs this off the table mainly now ( rev Titan + guide\ prec)

And being a gk player in addition to Eldar ,a lot of people fail to remember is all you have to do is touch that unit with a mind strike missle or condemor bolt gun and every lock just dies, and if your meta/ tourney scene has this and the screamer star floating around it'd be wise to work something like that in or just THE D!

 Arthas367 wrote:
The guns they posses ( bolters aren't 12 inches last I checked, and 1 in 6 blade storm wounds doesn't call for foul as most would have you believe ) are far from the issue

With their speed it makes little difference (if any at all).
And you can't claim that it isn't part of their powerfulness.

People don't tank with baron, as that is a stupid idea. Baron is there for stealth and hit & run. The seer council itself will most likely have 2+ armour from protect, and 2+ cover from shroud stealth and jink. There is very few weapons in the game that are ap2 and ignore cover. So 2+ invulnerable isn't needed.

The unit itself is dangerous due to its resilience, and hit and run stopping it from being tarpitted like the screamerstar. It can get anywhere it needs to, it can use many powerful buffs and debuffs, and can kill almost anything in close combat thanks to high WS, prescience, and fleshbane.

Well, how about the ''Shadows in the Warp'' special rule the new Nids possess? I don't have the new codex yet. But I was told this could be dangerous for a Jetseer council as it heavily relies on psychic powers.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, how about the ''Shadows in the Warp'' special rule the new Nids possess? I don't have the new codex yet. But I was told this could be dangerous for a Jetseer council as it heavily relies on psychic powers.

Good point. Even with all the hate for ne 'Nid codex, they have one of the best counters to one of the best power-builds in game.
But we'll see how that works out...

 Arthas367 wrote:
being a gk player in addition to Eldar ,a lot of people fail to remember is all you have to do is touch that unit with a mind strike missle or condemor bolt gun and every lock just dies, and if your meta/ tourney scene has this and the screamer star floating around it'd be wise to work something like that in or just THE D!

The D might work, but your other options probably won't. A Seerstar can be in combat by turn 2, meaning shooting can be avoided. At any rate they can be in your deployment zone, meaning the stormraven will overshoot them, or they can simply manoeuvre the farseer in the way to tank all the wounds on their ghosthelms, same will work with condemner bolters.

A good sized Seerstar is usually 2 Farseers with 5+ Warlocks, this is usually supported by either Serpents or Walkers as well as Fire Prism/Wraithknight. That is why Seerstar is better then Screamerstar, Screamers have to dedicate a whole extra expensive unit (Either Be'Lakor or Fateweaver) for them to be useable and then have few long range support units. The best they will have is maybe an extra D Prince or two, but I can guarantee they will be shot down, after all, who will waste shots into a 2+ re-rollable? A Screamerstart hinges on it's screamers, in a Seerstar list the actual Seerstar itself is a sacrificial unit meant to kill troupes, ensuring your jetbikes get all objectives.

What makes the Star good is 1: The Supporting units. 2: Easy access to (multiple) 2+'s (Protect, Stealth + Shrouded, Shadowfield) and likely re-rolls make them hell'a survivable. 3: Mobility, while hampered to moving at the Barons pace you can still turbo boost and string him along via conga line and still make an easy second turn assault. 4: Buffs/Debuffs. Prescience, Misfortune, Fortune, Doom, Invisibility, Hallucinate, Terrify, - 1 armour save, Horrify. Any combination of these a frightful unit makes. 5: Shooting. I know, right? But don't under estimate the power of a few prescience singing spears into a rhino, it will go down then the occupants will be charged. Also Blade Storm pulls a real number of TMC, partially making up for SiTW. 6: Combat. They lack AP but boy can they pile on saves. They can probably cause enough wounds to win combat by quite a bit, in conjunction with Terrify makes a 'Terrifying' prospect, and if they meet something they don't like, screw it! Hit and Run away and Multicharge something else! Finally, 7: The Eldar Codex. The Seerstar will sometimes win games for you, wiping the entire board clean. But more often then not, those Warlocks will die in combat eventually and then combat punch falls with them, but what matters is that you have killed of the enemy troops, meaning that 3/4 games GJB's will win you the games.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:

 Arthas367 wrote:
being a gk player in addition to Eldar ,a lot of people fail to remember is all you have to do is touch that unit with a mind strike missle or condemor bolt gun and every lock just dies, and if your meta/ tourney scene has this and the screamer star floating around it'd be wise to work something like that in or just THE D!

The D might work, but your other options probably won't. A Seerstar can be in combat by turn 2, meaning shooting can be avoided. At any rate they can be in your deployment zone, meaning the stormraven will overshoot them, or they can simply manoeuvre the farseer in the way to tank all the wounds on their ghosthelms, same will work with condemner bolters.

A good sized Seerstar is usually 2 Farseers with 5+ Warlocks, this is usually supported by either Serpents or Walkers as well as Fire Prism/Wraithknight. That is why Seerstar is better then Screamerstar, Screamers have to dedicate a whole extra expensive unit (Either Be'Lakor or Fateweaver) for them to be useable and then have few long range support units. The best they will have is maybe an extra D Prince or two, but I can guarantee they will be shot down, after all, who will waste shots into a 2+ re-rollable? A Screamerstart hinges on it's screamers, in a Seerstar list the actual Seerstar itself is a sacrificial unit meant to kill troupes, ensuring your jetbikes get all objectives.

What makes the Star good is 1: The Supporting units. 2: Easy access to (multiple) 2+'s (Protect, Stealth + Shrouded, Shadowfield) and likely re-rolls make them hell'a survivable. 3: Mobility, while hampered to moving at the Barons pace you can still turbo boost and string him along via conga line and still make an easy second turn assault. 4: Buffs/Debuffs. Prescience, Misfortune, Fortune, Doom, Invisibility, Hallucinate, Terrify, - 1 armour save, Horrify. Any combination of these a frightful unit makes. 5: Shooting. I know, right? But don't under estimate the power of a few prescience singing spears into a rhino, it will go down then the occupants will be charged. Also Blade Storm pulls a real number of TMC, partially making up for SiTW. 6: Combat. They lack AP but boy can they pile on saves. They can probably cause enough wounds to win combat by quite a bit, in conjunction with Terrify makes a 'Terrifying' prospect, and if they meet something they don't like, screw it! Hit and Run away and Multicharge something else! Finally, 7: The Eldar Codex. The Seerstar will sometimes win games for you, wiping the entire board clean. But more often then not, those Warlocks will die in combat eventually and then combat punch falls with them, but what matters is that you have killed of the enemy troops, meaning that 3/4 games GJB's will win you the games.

Dont forget about the end-game voltron split into 4 different units to contest any objectives left unchecked.

I have found that a unit of shining spears with two farseers and the baron are very similar in utility while saving over half of the points.

The obvious shortcomings are the loss of invulnerable saves and psychic powers, but for the sudden decrease in cost it is well justified.

With the spears coming with skilled rider and the baron with stealth you're looking at a 2/3+ jink save. The baron with a rerollable 2++ which is not stupid at all and the two farseers hiding at the back corners to soak up some wounds from deep strikers.

Against anything, but 2+ the spears are superior to the seers in combat. Perhaps I observe this, because psychic powers are not allowed to stack in my area, but they shred pretty much anything and are a wonderful fear unit that soaks up insane amounts of damage for a reasonable price.

Food for thought. Room to bring more serpents.

Pertruabo wrote:
Hi guys
What's seer bike council anyway? and why are people saying its powerful? And what makes it powerful?


Thanks!

Baron leads the way tanking with a 2+ invulnerable, the Jetlocks have 2+ armour and cover, if you get fortune (likely with 2 seers) then everything gets rerolls. It then can soak up a stupid amount of fire power, especially since shadow field wounds must be rolled one at a time. This is backed up with venoms with trophy racks for rerolling Ld (the psychic tests). After that its backed with 2 wraithknights and a bunch of jetbikes that steal objectives.

Ovesastar is really the only thing that can get around a lot of its saves easily.

 Iyandenseer wrote:
I have found that a unit of shining spears with two farseers and the baron are very similar in utility while saving over half of the points.

The obvious shortcomings are the loss of invulnerable saves and psychic powers, but for the sudden decrease in cost it is well justified.

With the spears coming with skilled rider and the baron with stealth you're looking at a 2/3+ jink save. The baron with a rerollable 2++ which is not stupid at all and the two farseers hiding at the back corners to soak up some wounds from deep strikers.

Against anything, but 2+ the spears are superior to the seers in combat. Perhaps I observe this, because psychic powers are not allowed to stack in my area, but they shred pretty much anything and are a wonderful fear unit that soaks up insane amounts of damage for a reasonable price.

Food for thought. Room to bring more serpents.

And here I thought I'm the only one who plays Shining Spearstar. Although I don't play with allies and I don't play with 2 Farseers, but rather a Farseer and an Autarch. A unit of 8 Spears and the two ICs is around 450 points and offers a lot for that. As a counter-charge unit or in a threat-overload role, they work wonders. Even Necron Wraiths don't want to get charged by these bad boys.

Shining Spears?
Are those things still around?

I like their fluff and role on the battlefield,
But a bit expensive for a single wound with 3+ save, aren't they?

Last game I played vs Grey Knights, they pretty much singlehandedly killed Draigo, 5 Paladins, Apothecary, a Land Raider and ganged up on a 10-man Purifier squyad with the Wraithknight. All the while the Farseer was throwing buffs around. The Spears died in the end, but they're just wounds for my Autarch and Exarch, anyway. Plus, thet're not that expensive either, the squad I run costs 240 points.

Power-listing is powerful

But guys, how does the Baron Tank wounds if hes the slowest model and therefore cant get to the front?

How can the Baron get a free ride in a unit of Seers when they Turboboost? He is not allowed to run if the bikes boost, but how are the bikes allowed to turboboost if he is not?

I hate these guys with a passion. They always come on the board at exactly the right time to throw off everything I am doing.

Signed, a CSM player.

 extremefreak17 wrote:


Dont forget about the end-game voltron split into 4 different units to contest any objectives left unchecked.

Um, what?



CSM players should just do what they always do...HELDRAAAAAKE!!!!!

The 'Voltron' move is where you first cast your psychic powers (typically Fortune) and then the 2 Farseers and Baron Sathonyx leave the Warlock unit. With the sheer mobility of the now 4 separate units (who are all benefitting from the psychic buffs), they go an contest objectives on the last turn of the game.

Unfortunately for Chaos players, Helldrakes do very little to zero against a Jetseer. Jetseers typically have 6-10 Warlocks in the unit in which is very likely to have gotten the psychic power 'Protect', which increases armor saves by 1. This means the Jetseer has a 2+ armor save. You can Vector Strike, but they all have 4+ inv and generally with a reroll.

Rolling for Fortune can be a bit hit or miss. From the three events I played utilizing this unit and having 2 Farseers, I rolled Fortune in the following:

7 Game Event: 3 Yes, 4 No Fortune
3 Game Event: 3 Yes
5 Game Event: 4 Yes, 1 No Fortune

The event where I had 4 games without Fortune, I did fairly poorly. You can minimize the chances to not get it, but the chance still lies in a die roll (or 6).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The 'Voltron' move is where you first cast your psychic powers (typically Fortune) and then the 2 Farseers and Baron Sathonyx leave the Warlock unit. With the sheer mobility of the now 4 separate units (who are all benefitting from the psychic buffs), they go an contest objectives on the last turn of the game.

Unfortunately for Chaos players, Helldrakes do very little to zero against a Jetseer. Jetseers typically have 6-10 Warlocks in the unit in which is very likely to have gotten the psychic power 'Protect', which increases armor saves by 1. This means the Jetseer has a 2+ armor save. You can Vector Strike, but they all have 4+ inv and generally with a reroll.

Rolling for Fortune can be a bit hit or miss. From the three events I played utilizing this unit and having 2 Farseers, I rolled Fortune in the following:

7 Game Event: 3 Yes, 4 No Fortune
3 Game Event: 3 Yes
5 Game Event: 4 Yes, 1 No Fortune

The event where I had 4 games without Fortune, I did fairly poorly. You can minimize the chances to not get it, but the chance still lies in a die roll (or 6).

 Sarigar wrote:
The 'Voltron' move is where you first cast your psychic powers (typically Fortune) and then the 2 Farseers and Baron Sathonyx leave the Warlock unit. With the sheer mobility of the now 4 separate units (who are all benefitting from the psychic buffs), they go an contest objectives on the last turn of the game.

Unfortunately for Chaos players, Helldrakes do very little to zero against a Jetseer. Jetseers typically have 6-10 Warlocks in the unit in which is very likely to have gotten the psychic power 'Protect', which increases armor saves by 1. This means the Jetseer has a 2+ armor save. You can Vector Strike, but they all have 4+ inv and generally with a reroll.

Rolling for Fortune can be a bit hit or miss. From the three events I played utilizing this unit and having 2 Farseers, I rolled Fortune in the following:

7 Game Event: 3 Yes, 4 No Fortune
3 Game Event: 3 Yes
5 Game Event: 4 Yes, 1 No Fortune

The event where I had 4 games without Fortune, I did fairly poorly. You can minimize the chances to not get it, but the chance still lies in a die roll (or 6).


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The 'Voltron' move is where you first cast your psychic powers (typically Fortune) and then the 2 Farseers and Baron Sathonyx leave the Warlock unit. With the sheer mobility of the now 4 separate units (who are all benefitting from the psychic buffs), they go an contest objectives on the last turn of the game.

Unfortunately for Chaos players, Helldrakes do very little to zero against a Jetseer. Jetseers typically have 6-10 Warlocks in the unit in which is very likely to have gotten the psychic power 'Protect', which increases armor saves by 1. This means the Jetseer has a 2+ armor save. You can Vector Strike, but they all have 4+ inv and generally with a reroll.

Rolling for Fortune can be a bit hit or miss. From the three events I played utilizing this unit and having 2 Farseers, I rolled Fortune in the following:

7 Game Event: 3 Yes, 4 No Fortune
3 Game Event: 3 Yes
5 Game Event: 4 Yes, 1 No Fortune

The event where I had 4 games without Fortune, I did fairly poorly. You can minimize the chances to not get it, but the chance still lies in a die roll (or 6).

The voltron move sounds.....AWESOME!