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Just looking at dante, nice initiative though shame he can't strike at it.

So is it possible for him to leave the axe in it's scabbard and attack at his initiative value, using the strength given on his profile, but without the perks given by the axe? So he's basically attacking with no more than a regular ccw?

Obviously this doesn't just apply to dante! And yes you would need to keep to your decision and not say I'll use fists against your boys and the axe vs the mega armoured nob in the same phase.

You're required by the assault rules to use your weapons. If you have multiples you can choose which to use, but there is no option to just use your hands instead,

Is there anything that says all marines are assumed to be equipped with a basic combat knife?

I thought there used to be......

 Steel-W0LF wrote:
Is there anything that says all marines are assumed to be equipped with a basic combat knife?

I thought there used to be......

not anymore, otherwise all tac squads would get to use combat knife/BP for an additional attack, and not just Grey Hunters, some chaos etc...

For Dante specifically, he's packing a pistol, which counts as a normal close combat weapon, so you can just choose to strike with that.

If you have a weapon profile called "Bare Fists" you may choose to attack with it.

I personally think a bolt pistol is a ccw, as it has the melee rule. It allows it to strike in cc as a ccw, no?

I mean the BRB says that any model not armed with a ccw already is counted as having one. Yet marines have bolt pistols. So if they weren't melee weapons, they would receive a ccw according to the BRB, which in conjunction with said bp would give them 2 attacks.

We had this discussion before, long ago. Once it was found that bp were close combat weapons, that settled it.

So honestly yeah, if Dante wants to attack with his bp instead of his power axe, he's allowed to do so. And still receive +1 attack for two ccw from his axe he isn't using.

 Spellbound wrote:
I personally think a bolt pistol is a ccw, as it has the melee rule. It allows it to strike in cc as a ccw, no?

Well it has the pistol rule, Read Page 52.

I mean the BRB says that any model not armed with a ccw already is counted as having one. Yet marines have bolt pistols. So if they weren't melee weapons, they would receive a ccw according to the BRB, which in conjunction with said bp would give them 2 attacks.

Not at all, if you have a Bolt pistol and they "weren't melee weapons" (read page 52 to see the actual rule) then you could not combine the pistol with anything as it would not be a melee weapon...

 Spellbound wrote:
So if they weren't melee weapons, they would receive a ccw according to the BRB, which in conjunction with said bp would give them 2 attacks.

If the bolt pistol wasn't a melee weapon, how would he be getting a second attack from it...?

It's convoluted, but here's the thought process we came to way back when:

Models without CCW are given one, according to the brb, so they can fight (guardians, etc). It's assumed.

Models WITH a ccw aren't given one (it's not just an "everyone gets one", it's "everyone that otherwise has none, is given one".


Space marines have bolt pistols. They do not come with both ccw AND bolt pistols. CSM are the same way - in fact they have to pay if they want to get a ccw, or swap their bolters for one.

Having the bp and ccw gives the model +1 attack for having two close combat weapons.

Erego, bolt pistols must work like close combat weapons.

And therefore, you can let the model swing with his bolt pistol instead of his power axe.

Also I like to give the instant death rule to my lord's ccw instead of his power fist whenever I roll the result on the gift table, in case I go against someone with a bad armor save or whom I need to try to kill at higher initiative.

It has the weapon Type Pistol, not Melee.
Minor difference though as pistol has a 'counts as a' rule that makes it function as a close combat weapon in all regards.

pistols have a melee weapon profile as well,
hint its the same profile as the generic melee weapon

they can be used in CC in stead of another weapon

Right, the pistol rule grants that permission. Same difference.

 Spellbound wrote:
It's convoluted, but here's the thought process we came to way back when:

Models without CCW are given one, according to the brb, so they can fight (guardians, etc). It's assumed.

Models WITH a ccw aren't given one (it's not just an "everyone gets one", it's "everyone that otherwise has none, is given one".


Space marines have bolt pistols. They do not come with both ccw AND bolt pistols. CSM are the same way - in fact they have to pay if they want to get a ccw, or swap their bolters for one.

Having the bp and ccw gives the model +1 attack for having two close combat weapons.

Erego, bolt pistols must work like close combat weapons..

Here's the shorter version: The rules for Pistols specifically state that they count as a close combat weapon.

I have no idea why you thought the rest of that mess was at all necessary.


And none of that addresses why you think that the BP would grant an extra attack if it wasn't a melee weapon.

Yes, you can have Dante pistol whip his enemies to death in combat if you wanted to.

Thanks all, good to know