People starting Miniature Wargaming, but not starting with Warhammer 40k?

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**Boss GreenNutz**

I know now that if someone asks me about getting into wargaming I steer them to Flames of War. Since 6th ED came out 40K just lost it's luster to me. I've tried to figure out why but it seems it is just a compilation of little things that made the game no longer fun to play.

**Ultra Grey**

Tanakosyke22 wrote:

Now, I am not bashing Warhammer in any way, shape, or form, as it is the Game that made Miniature Wargaming more well known

I think you're giving WH far more credit than it deserves. War gaming has been around, and popular, for decades longer than you've been around. In fact, when I started, in the mid '70s, Fantasy/SciFi was the new kid on the block, and not expected to last. A lot of war gamers have never heard of WH. True fact.

**easysauce**

I started mini wargaming back in the 80's with action figures, micro machines, and way too much imagination... made up my own rules with my brother and firends to play games with.

then hero quest/DD most of elementary, so those were likely my real intro ductions to mini gaming

fantasy + 40k were not even on my radar will end of junior high when someone went "you like D&D? youll love this"

and i did!

**Jehan-reznor**

Maybe world of tanks and bolt action should team up that would get GW Riled up!

**frozenwastes**

Jehan-reznor wrote:
Maybe world of tanks and bolt action should team up that would get GW Riled up!

I actually took my 15mm tanks and Bolt Action rules with some modifications to make it more "World of Tanks"-like and had a small tank skirmish of a platoon per side with a friend of mine who's obsessed with the video game. He ended up ordering a couple boxes of Plastic Soldier Company tanks and some Zvezda 15mm tanks and we have a modelling & painting day scheduled for when they arrive.

**Strombones**

I started with Heroquest and BattleMasters in the early nineties and found my way into some space wolves not long after that. I actually didn't realize that the 2 were affiliated until not that long ago.

The GrimDark has dominated my hobby attention since 97, and I have spent A LOT of time and money on it since then. Now I can't afford it. Literally. I could not afford it even at a stretch.

Ironically I game more than ever in my life now. Been meeting a steady stream of people getting into gaming via bolt action and many old 40k vets (and I mean Waac tournament winning vets) moving to the skirmish scene as well. When asked about 40k, all the new guys usually say the same. "meh, I always hear bad things about the company" or "why is it so expensive"?

Indeed GW. Indeed.

On a further note, I suggest playing bolt action at 15mm. Buy a FOW platoon for 20 bucks, glue them to pennies and you have everything you need and more.

**Herzlos**

I came into the hobby via HeroQuest and 40K (when available on every high street), and didn't realise that non-GW gaming existed for the first couple of years.

Up until the last year or so, almost everyone I've spoken to seems to have come into gaming via GW in some form, but more and more people are bypassing them and I can see why. It's certainly one of the last ranges I'd suggest to a new player (when there's cheaper and better out there: X-Wing, Saga, EOTD, FoW, Bolt Action).

This should be whats worrying GW, as their position of default game is likely to be gone within a generation of gamers.

**Bat Manuel**

Tanakosyke22 wrote:
So something I have been noticing in my area is that have noticed, but it is only a small group of people (4-5 in total from all the games I play: Warmachine/ Infinity/ Android Netrunner) that have never played any of the Warhammer's as an introduction into the Miniature Wargaming hobby. Only one out of those 4-5 have ever heard of Warhammer before hand, and the rest said they never played it due to price or what they have heard about Games Workshop. Coming from the background of starting from Warhammer but moving onto another game, this is a bit strange to hear, but I understand the reasoning behind those who did not start with Warhammer 40k or Fantasy.

Now, I am not bashing Warhammer in any way, shape, or form, as it is the Game that made Miniature Wargaming more well known (some may debate Mainstream with me, but the most it has gotten is some video games that kind of sold well) and what it is today. My question to this is that if this just an outlier I am looking at in terms of the miniature wargaming community as a major whole, or if this a much more common occurrence that I am looking at in this day and age?

I think it would have been weird 10 years ago, but today there is so much out there that people can get into war-gaming through any number of different systems

**Chrissy_J**

If I was a player (which I'm not; I never rolled a die in my adult life) I wouldn't start with 40K, it just seems way too complex and expensive to start with.

Necromunda would have been my way into the playing realm, it looked simple and stripped down.

**Mattlov**

I couldn't even recommend GW as a place to start wargaming anymore. I'd tell a new player to stay away from it like a MRSA popsicle.

So many games now have better rules, ridiculously better price entry points, at the cost of slightly less quality in the minis. But a less "busy" model is easier for a new player to to paint, so that is still a bonus!

GW doesn't really have anything going for it these days except a large player base. And that player base can be quite a detriment as well, with some of the hardcore, rules-lawyering, WAAC players that are out there. There seem to be more of those than any other player base I know of.

**pancakeonions**

I started miniature wargaming in my mid-30s with Warmachine. I've always loved the GW models, and I've painted hundreds (maybe thousands - do I get to count each 6mm figure in Epic?) and played Blood Bowl, Man o' War, Necromunda, Dreadfleet, Space Hulk 3rd ed and some of their older boardgames.

I've also tried Kings of War (with almost 100% GW armies!), Dystopian Wars and a few others here and there.

And finally, last weekend (not quite 10 years after my first game of Warmachine) I played 40K!

Finally got that monkey off my back.

(and 40K was fun, but not fun enough that I'm clamoring to play more more more)

**Tanakosyke22**

pancakeonions wrote:
I started miniature wargaming in my mid-30s with Warmachine. I've always loved the GW models, and I've painted hundreds (maybe thousands - do I get to count each 6mm figure in Epic?) and played Blood Bowl, Man o' War, Necromunda, Dreadfleet, Space Hulk 3rd ed and some of their older boardgames.

I've also tried Kings of War (with almost 100% GW armies!), Dystopian Wars and a few others here and there.

And finally, last weekend (not quite 10 years after my first game of Warmachine) I played 40K!

Finally got that monkey off my back.

(and 40K was fun, but not fun enough that I'm clamoring to play more more more)

Yeah, and not that fun to really shell out a lot of dollars just to keep up to date (although Games Workshop does have great quality miniatures, save for finecast, which is almost universal). Kind of why I dropped that and fantasy for Infinity and Warmahordes.

And I would say the 6mm epic minis counts, since it does take a lot of effort to paint even smaller toy soldiers.

**Kilkrazy**

Surely most people start when they are boys playing with Army Men and the like.

**frozenwastes**

Kilkrazy wrote:
Surely most people start when they are boys playing with Army Men and the like.

I think for the sake of this thread, we can assume a definition of "miniature wargaming" that includes playing an actual designed set of rules with an actual procedure of play rather than spontaneous unconsciously moderated toy play.

**PrettyLawful**

I actually started making miniature terrain for my friends before I knew what Warhammer really was. They just paid me to build them stuff and I didn't really question it. It was only a few months later where I got into the hobby with them.

**melkorthetonedeaf**

Go to your FLGS, see what they play most often (or rather just avoid picking a game no one nearby plays), purchase the rules, read them, determine if you want to play them, INVEST TIME AND MONEY, and have fun.

**Lockark**

I've actully done a tone of intro games into wargameing to non-gamers useing Brushfire. O___o Sadly none of them picked up on it, but they did enjoy themselves.

**Kilkrazy**

frozenwastes wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Surely most people start when they are boys playing with Army Men and the like.

I think for the sake of this thread, we can assume a definition of "miniature wargaming" that includes playing an actual designed set of rules with an actual procedure of play rather than spontaneous unconsciously moderated toy play.

Surely most people after playing spontaneously with Army Men started to write their own rules with an actual procedure or play, etc, or just grab a copy of Little Wars.

I certainly did.

**Farseer Faenyin**

Kilkrazy wrote:
frozenwastes wrote:
Kilkrazy wrote:
Surely most people start when they are boys playing with Army Men and the like.

I think for the sake of this thread, we can assume a definition of "miniature wargaming" that includes playing an actual designed set of rules with an actual procedure of play rather than spontaneous unconsciously moderated toy play.

Surely most people after playing spontaneously with Army Men started to write their own rules with an actual procedure or play, etc, or just grab a copy of Little Wars.

I certainly did.

Certainly I didn't. I just determined Leatherneck and Tunnel Rat were the coolest of the GI Joes and they pretty much owned the day like Rambo with no rolls or rules.

**Saldiven**

For what it's worth, I started wargaming before 40K existed. My first wargame was "Chainmail" that my brother picked up when we were visiting Washington DC in 1980.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainmail_(game)

**Ultra Grey**

Saldiven wrote:
For what it's worth, I started wargaming before 40K existed. My first wargame was "Chainmail" that my brother picked up when we were visiting Washington DC in 1980.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainmail_(game)

Wow, thanks for the walk down memory lane. I hadn't thought about Chainmail for decades. Dude, we're old....

**Saldiven**

Ultra Grey wrote:
Saldiven wrote:
For what it's worth, I started wargaming before 40K existed. My first wargame was "Chainmail" that my brother picked up when we were visiting Washington DC in 1980.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chainmail_(game)

Wow, thanks for the walk down memory lane. I hadn't thought about Chainmail for decades. Dude, we're old....

I still have my copy, though I had to tape the back cover on. It was held together by one of those plastic things that are kind of like a spiral back note book without actually spiraling, and the back cover tore off sometime in the 1980's.