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I was wondering how one would build a good list around the lictor and death leaper.Aparantly it would consist of infiktrating or deep strile lictors or the deathleaper. Go to ground when they are shot out, preferably in a ruin or something. Next turn you would deep strike something with synapse withing range. The new synapse monster would give them fearless and they would be able to charge that turn. I do understand the consepts, but I do not understand how to build and or time it:

If the infiltrators arive by deep strike you might not get them before turn 3 and the plan is ruined. At the best of cases you would not get a charge before turn 3?
If you infiltrate them you are 18" away and go to ground. Turn 2 synapse arive and you can move 6" and charge maximum 12" this does not seem veri functional.

Would this best case senario be: Deploy them by infiktartion, run forrward 1d6, go to ground and hope you will get something done? Would multiple units help make this doable? I can not see this happening.

PS: I would love to deepstrike a mawlock so that I can "snipe" units that are in CC with my lictors.

Sample list sugestions for this is welcome. Or is this just a theoretical dead end doe to not ever pulling it off?

It requires a few things going your way:

1. Your lictor has to go to ground in cover. Not hard, he can deepstrike directly into it with no scatter, or sometimes infiltrate there during deployment. Of course, that requires your enemy left you open cover in their DZ...

2. You have to have your Synapse arrive in range. Couple ways this can work:
-a. Outflanking Tervigon shows up on the correct area of the board. Possibly pops Dominion if it has it.
-b. Swooping Flyrant has 90 degree turn radius and makes it into range.
-c. Deep striking Synapse: Trygon Prime or Shrike unit. Requires taking fairly 'meh' units, both of which are in decently contested slots. (HS more than FA; but beyond Synapse Shrikes do as much as warriors . i.e., not much)
-d. Swarmlord with Norn Crown pops Dominion, extending his Synapse range to 30", which as long as he isn't on your back table edge is basically the whole table.

3. CHARGE! Just don't get overwatched.


There are plenty of ways to get Lictors into Synapse, but I think the ease of getting them to survive is a bit over rated myself. Even with the bonus to cover saves, they're still a T4 5+ model at 50PPM. I also think when they resort to their 5+ armor save in CC that they're kind boned. Units small enough to wipe out tend to have decent saves (better hope you rend!), and models whose saves are ignored (5+ or worse) are usually in big enough units to survive and strike back.

Still, they're far better than they used to be, even if they lost rending on Flesh Hooks.

I've played two games with lictors now and find it hard to get this trick going. Between infiltrate range (12-18") and synapse range, even with dominion, there's only a very narrow band where you can succesfully deploy. And that band needs area terrain as well.

You could field one or more Lictors with a Trygon Prime and one or two Mawlocs. Lictor infiltrates/deep strikes, goes to ground. DS Trygon Prime within 6" of him without scatter, providing Synapse, which allows the Lictor to run forward. Then DS Mawloc(s) without scatter within 6" of his new position. You now have provided your opponent with far greater threats than your Lictors.

Yeah the problem with your deep striking synapse onto your deep striking lictor is that you don’t get the pheromone bonus until next turn, so you either don’t get the bonus for which you probably took the lictor in the first place or you don’t get your high threat synapse unit until turn 3- you don’t want either outcome and you don’t control which you get due to random reserve rolls. The only reason I can see for habitually deepstriking them is if you are taking large broods for their flesh hook shooting, which lets be honest, is extremely situational.

Which leaves infiltrate- I agree that’s also not ideal for the reasons you mentioned but lictors have a small footprint so you might be able to get within 12’ if there is some LOS blocking terrain. If there isn’t then you need to try and manipulate the enemy into moving towards you ( which might be done by placing a midfield objective or some sexy cover he will want or maybe by coaxing him into rapid fire range or similar)

Can someone please explain exactly how this whole scenario steps out and where the rules or errata/FAQ's might be in order to make it known? My FLGS tends to be pretty ripe about playing tricks with the rules and this is something I'd absolutely like to try to get done sooner than later.

So how does this happen, exactly?

The Lichtors Deep Strike in to cover, just outside of Synapes range, if they're close enough they launch Flesh Hooks and do damage, then pass the turn. On the opponents turn, you Go To Ground with the inevitably shot at Lichtors, when the opponent passes the turn, specifically, what happens?

notbriang wrote:
Can someone please explain exactly how this whole scenario steps out and where the rules or errata/FAQ's might be in order to make it known? My FLGS tends to be pretty ripe about playing tricks with the rules and this is something I'd absolutely like to try to get done sooner than later.

So how does this happen, exactly?

The Lichtors Deep Strike in to cover, just outside of Synapes range, if they're close enough they launch Flesh Hooks and do damage, then pass the turn. On the opponents turn, you Go To Ground with the inevitably shot at Lichtors, when the opponent passes the turn, specifically, what happens?

You get a synapse creature into range and his newfound fearlessness automatically pops him back up...as per BRB FAQ.

I am curious,

how do you control the deep strike arrival turn?

because if your lictor is DS turn two... you have a 3+ to have the other stuff arrive that turn as well...


how do you "force" the synapse stuff to arrive turn three if you DS the lictor? (OFC flyrants and stuff already on board could move up i guess, but sounds like you guys want to DS the synapse too)


seems like you basically have to infiltrate the first one...


and i think most of the time your lictor actually SHOULD be infiltrating, small foot print + any decent tourny/game has at least one peice of LOS blocking terrain.

or maybe buying a building (whicl can be put within 12" of center, and be infiltrated into, REGARLESS of enemy LOS)
is the solution

The more I understand this trick the more I see that it is much more difficult to pull of then I initially though. What more the pay off is not that big.

 easysauce wrote:
and i think most of the time your lictor actually SHOULD be infiltrating, small foot print + any decent tourny/game has at least one peice of LOS blocking terrain.

^this...and I place my firestorm redoubt just 12" away from the enemy to infiltrate my lictors inside...barring heavy AT presences or other scouts or infiltrators.

actually, I think its a sound tactic for a "zerg" type list that takes advantage of synapse and mitigates a lot of its downsides..


IE you get your synapse acroos the table by turn 2 VIa infiltrateing lictor in a building, they dont scatter, and they havnt been shot at till they get there.

coupled with some fast units on the table turn one, flyrants gargoyles, hormagaunts en mass,

you can basically bum rush that all forward, and force the opponent to either shoot at your main force with its venompthrope assisted cover, or at the lictor that will guid in all your DS'ing reserves.

turn two, you should have flyrant/gargoyles/lictors + the hormagaunts assuming they rolled a 3 or better for run + whatever you deep strike in, and a large 6" footprint around the building for the lictors phermones

 easysauce wrote:
actually, I think its a sound tactic for a "zerg" type list that takes advantage of synapse and mitigates a lot of its downsides..


IE you get your synapse acroos the table by turn 2 VIa infiltrateing lictor in a building, they dont scatter, and they havnt been shot at till they get there.

coupled with some fast units on the table turn one, flyrants gargoyles, hormagaunts en mass,

you can basically bum rush that all forward, and force the opponent to either shoot at your main force with its venompthrope assisted cover, or at the lictor that will guid in all your DS'ing reserves.

turn two, you should have flyrant/gargoyles/lictors + the hormagaunts assuming they rolled a 3 or better for run + whatever you deep strike in, and a large 6" footprint around the building for the lictors phermones

This time around, lictors were meant to infiltrate, all previous books played up the deepstrike, its much smarter overall though.

Deepstrike should be reserved for those armies you just can't catch, like Wave Serpent rear armor, any cheap skimmer, or MSU objective scorers.

Zerg?

zerg is when you have 120+ hormagaunts, and an army meant to get into CC by turn two (3 with HORRIBLE rolls) turn one you have 6" +4-9" so 10-19" move,

turn two, you are going to be 16-25" up before you charge or run, so very possible to get turn 2 charge since you have a a cheap unit or three or four with fleet, so getting a 7"+ charge is very very doable, so unless they deployed on the back edge you are golden, as the farthest they can be away is 36" in standard deployment, but really, no one has a line of guys hugging the back edge, they usually have to be 4-6" up so they can shoot and possibly claim objectives.

generally they will have to deploy between 24-30" away from you, so with a 16-25" move + 2-12" rerollable charge, your 5 pt gaunts are turn two threats, along with most of your army being turn two threats...

even tau are not going to do 120 wounds in two turns, AND take out all the flyer MC's and gargoyels and the DS stuff.

even just 1-2 of those units in their end zone by turn two is enough to overrun their ability to deal with stuff... do they focus on the synapse, assuming they can even draw LOS to synapse? can they take out flyrants and the synaplse you DS in one go? do they shoot the lictors/mawlock/whatever you deepstriked thats ready to charge? the flyrants about to charge? or do they shoot the 100+ gribblies about to charge them?

 easysauce wrote:
zerg is when you have 120+ hormagaunts, and an army meant to get into CC by turn two (3 with HORRIBLE rolls)

Pretty sure that's just called Tyranids...(^_^)

LOL... i dunno, mostpeople seem to just rely on the big bugs it seems, at least with the pre 6th ed codex psychich choir lists.

Forget outflankers and deepstrikers coming in from reserve, thats way to unreliable. The only way to try this would be with a Fly Tyrant.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
Forget outflankers and deepstrikers coming in from reserve, thats way to unreliable. The only way to try this would be with a Fly Tyrant.

You can do it with a comms relay too.