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J0kerrMT wrote:

 ChaoticMind wrote:
All of them, they all have "spam" units that work by having bodies and they all have "elite" units that work by having great stats and special rules. For 'casters and 'locks every faction has super-solos that want the rest of the army to be self sufficient, 'beast or 'jack casters that do nothing for infantry, infantry casters who love having multiple units some of wich need support, and casters who will do a little of evreything.

The reason this isn't chess is that each army has slight differences and the same idea behind an army list runs slightly differently in different armies. Convergence and minions are the only 2 factions that aren't spoiled for choice at this point. Mercinaries have slightly less choice but that's because it can't all be run under one war caster.

If each army has slight differences what are they? Can you give me the slight difference of each army then for warmachine and hordes?



From what I am reading, it sounds like either khador or menoth for an elite play style.

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?120453-Newbie-needs-assistance-picking-and-sticking-to-a-Warmachine-Hordes-faction!

I always viewed those as the "less elite" factions with a few stand off units.

This is what I was trying to say, you really need to play games or at the very least absorb a bucket full of info from http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/ before you get a "hang" of what a faction is like - it's really difficult to tell people what is how when the differences are in the different armies' composition. So you can say "in general Retribution have problems handling Stealth" or "in general Khador will want to have a lot of cheap infantry" or "in general Menoth armies rely heavily on their support units" but if you take Issyria and a Houseguard Thane you won't have much problems with Stealth as Retribution and Khador can work without Joe and his Winterguard (but he's soooo good).

Please bear in mind that an elite model feels most elite when they have high defence in my mind, which means that Men-o-wars aren't all that elite, but other models like Widowmakers, Mage Hunters, and so on give a more "elite" feel. Unlike Warhammer, there's two different and important defensive stats. For the record, I view men-o-wars and their ilk as "brutes" rather than "elites". Being brutish has it's benefits as well

Also, in Warmachine/Hordes you deal with nations of near equal technological prowess, so you don't have to make ridiculous expositions and awkward rules like Warhammer 40k does. Equal technology does not beget equal army composition, but a much closer match.

As a general rundown of playstyles:

Cygnar is a ranged faction, meaning that they soften up their enemies at range before going in for the kill more than most factions. They deal a lot of electric damage and have widespread access to electro-leap, which lets their attacks arc off to other targets (at only pow 10 however). They are an accurate faction and hit fairly hard, but only have average maneuverability and toughness. They run an average number of warjacks as a whole (though some casters run a ton and others will run only one) and have a good mix of unit and jack support.

Khador is described as the 'iron-fist' faction, overcoming their enemies through force. They typically have strong, numerous infantry units, and have amazing infantry support, but very little 'jack support. Combined with the point cost and the 'focus-greediness' of their warjacks and warcasters, Khador rarely runs more than 1 or 2 warjacks. They are also a tough faction, typically having high armour but low speed. They also widely use cold magic, which can immobilize enemies.

The Protectorate of Menoth can be described as a synergy faction. They have very strong support pieces and useful models to put those support spells on. They also run more 'jacks than average due to their amazing jack support through the Vassals of Menoth and the Choir of Menoth. However, many of their pieces tend to be less powerful individually as a result, and they are slow, but not as slow as Khador. They largely use fire magic, which can cause continuous damage.

Cryx is an aggressive debuff faction. They have more debuffs than other factions and their infantry is often either cheap and numerous, or powerful. They also have a lot of tricks that they can use, such as clouds, moving through terrain, and stealth. Their warcasters are also very powerful, and often have the Cull Soul ability, which gives them a boost when they are near a living enemy that dies. While they are powerful in melee, they have few ranged options, their warjack support is low and their jacks themselves, while fast and hard hitting, can't take many blows.

The Retribution of Scyrah is the second newest faction in the game. I don't know much about them, but from what I've seen they are a bit like Cygnar where they have a lot of good shooting. They have a lot of combined arms approaches to their infantry, and their models often take more of a jack of all trades approach, having both ranged and melee capabilities. However, their models have a high point-cost, although they are catching up they have fewer models than other factions (although they still have a lot of them) and they have minimal access to mercenaries. They are also more uncommon than the other warmachine factions, so good advice is slightly harder to come by (most of my advice on them is second-hand, I've been meaning to pick up their forces book to have a good read through it but I keep putting it off). As an additional note, many of their warjacks (called Myrmidons) have a force-field, allowing them to shrug off a significant amount of damage as long as the system hasn't been crippled. However, once the system is crippled it also weakens their weapons.

The Convergeance of Cyriss is the newest faction, being released last year and still getting all of the pieces from it's forces book released (which to be fair is a large number of models/units). They are a clockwork faction in more way than one, relying heavily on synergy and order of activation to get the most mileage out of their pieces. The most important element of their 'jack support is focus induction, which allows a Convergeance warjack (referred to as 'vectors' in game) to 'recycle' the first focus point it spends each turn, passing it onto another nearby vector. This is why they are dependent on their order of activation, activating a piece at the wrong time can deprive vectors of focus, and also creates difficult trade off situation. Because of this, they are able to run far more jack/vectors than any other faction. They also run far fewer living units than other factions (although you should note that they still have souls). However, they suffer like menoth where taking out their support pieces can cripple their units, and since many of their synergy-abilities require a low range, they also have a tendency to 'clump up' and be vulnerable to blast templates. Additionally, while they have strong vector support, their infantry support, and infantry as a whole, is less potent.

Mercenaries are kind of a filler faction. They have a lot of good utility and support models, as well as versatile units, but they lack suffer by being somewhat vanilla compared to the faction-specific options. I unfortunately am not knowledgable on mercenaries as their own army, so I can't say much here.

Trollbloods are another tough, durable faction. They are the most infantry focused of the Hordes factions, due to their expensive warbeasts and their strong infantry support. The majority of their faction is on a medium base or larger, making it easy for them to block charge lanes, and their infantry has tough, which is somewhat comparable to either Feel No Pain or Reanimation Protocols in 40k (if an infantry model passes its tough roll, it heals 1 damage and is knocked down instead of disabled). They are also somewhat slow as a faction.

The Circle of Orboros is a hit and run faction. Their beasts either come fast and hard-hitting (living beasts, particularly Warp Wolves) or slow and tough (constructs). They have a lot of mobility and terrain manipulation tricks (such as the ability to spawn forests), and a core of strong, self-reliant infantry. However, they have relatively poor support (I've been told by Hordes players that they have the worst fury management in the game, although this is offset somewhat by the fact that their constructs will never frenzy) and that they are somewhat soft targets.

The Legion of Everblight is another glass cannon faction. They have high maneuverability, hit hard, and have a strong ranged game. They also have a reputation of being the faction that 'ignores the rules' having widespread access to Eyeless Sight (which allows them to ignore cover and concealment) and Soulless (which prevents factions like Cryx from gaining their precious soul tokens). They hit hard, shoot well, and are amazing at setting up assassinations, but do not play the attrition game well and again, suffer from relatively low defense.

The Skorne have been described to me as 'the aggressive version of Menoth'. They are another synergy faction, relying on spells not defensively, but offensively. They hit HARD, and a properly buffed Bronzeback Titan has one of the highest damage potentials of any model in the game. They are also reasonably tough, but suffer from poor speed and 'skornergy', or that they have some anti-synergy and mutually exclusive options built into their design (an example is that the Immortals unit, which are non-living, want you to field Ancestral Guardian solos to provide them with the support they need, but Ancestral Guardians want to be surrounded by living units, which Immortals are not).

Minions are another faction I know relatively little about. All I can say is that pure-minions lists are viable, but suffer from only have access to an extremely small number of units.

If you want a more in-depth rundown of each faction BattleCollege does a good job. Just note that they can't actually tell you a model/units rules directly, and that the information and tactica about specific units can either be outdated or inaccurate, but it is generally a good first reference. Link provided below:

http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/

RegalPhantom wrote:
As a general rundown of playstyles:

Khador is described as the 'iron-fist' faction, overcoming their enemies through force. They typically have strong, numerous infantry units, and have amazing infantry support, but very little 'jack support. Combined with the point cost and the 'focus-greediness' of their warjacks and warcasters, Khador rarely runs more than 1 or 2 warjacks. They are also a tough faction, typically having high armour but low speed. They also widely use cold magic, which can immobilize enemies.

/

as a "general rundown" this is rather innacurate in parts.

With regard to the "slow" speed, khador are the fastest "slow" faction in the game. though warjacks are spd4, a huge amount of our warasters have "burst speed" enhancing spells,such as bounless charge (our jacks charge 9, instead of 7), feats (vlad, and strakhov) or buff spells such as superioirty or infernal machine, escort etc. What i really onject to is the "slow" description with regard to khadoran infantry, where it is demonstrablt false. they're not "slow" anymore than other infantry is "slow". generally speaking, you're looking at spd6 across the board, with fast cavalry, and even some faster infantry units such as eliminators.the only truly "slow" infantry that khador have are the MenoWar, and theyre at the same level as other heavy infantry.

Just to keep things right!

And i've seen a few other descriptions that are a bit out. you describe cygnar as having average toughness. whilst true, dont forget, as a faction they have easy access to arm buffing spells like decelleration and arcane shield that buff up armour to exceed that of supposedly "tough" faction like khador - case in point - stormwall with arcane shield.

I was looking for in general out of raw stats...no spells...just what they are born with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyway...I have decided to stay with Cygnar...hopefully they can win a few

J0kerrMT wrote:
From what I am reading, it sounds like either khador or menoth for an elite play style.

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?120453-Newbie-needs-assistance-picking-and-sticking-to-a-Warmachine-Hordes-faction!

I found Menoth to be very similar in a lot of fluff ways to Space Marines, and even moreso Black Templar, zealotry. Menoth can also put out some decently armored knights who hit hard in the bastions and exemplars. Exemplar errants also have crossbows and are a good shooting unit while also being weaponmasters. Overall going with an exemplar themed Menoth army is likely to give you the closest space marine feel. And then back them up with warjacks. With exemplar you will be rolling around with fewer, but powerful, elite warriors.

Khador has less of a religious zealotry feel to it, but they do have Iron Fangs and man o wars. And there is various shooting elements you can add as fire support for them. However, Wintergaurd are one of their best units. I would liken Khador much more to Imperial guard. Lots of fodder troops backed up by solos and very heavy warjacks.

Cygnar has some elite troops and some great shooting. Fluffwise they are the "good guys" sorta kinda like marines. But I don't really find them much like marines in that they aren't usually very tough. Good skills and smaller units, but not so tough. However, they have a HUGE access to mercenaries which can change their style around quite a bit. All in all Cygnar definitely has that jack of all trades that marines sometimes feel like.

Cryx plays more like CC oriented elder or dark elder to me. Fast, hit hard, but little to no range.

Ret tends to have elite, but specialized units. And they take a combined arms approach which is similar to vanilla marines. You might find what you are looking for here, but I am not super familiar with them. I also have a hard time comparing elves to marines.

Also check out hordes. Trolls and Skorne in particular have tough infantry backed up by beasts and some shooting. But I am very unfamiliar with either of those.

Circle now could be very interesting. I'd liken them to maybe Blood angels in that they tend to be fast and like CC. Not a lot of fire support though, but they can hit like a ton of bricks. Some units are tough like the skinwalkers, but that is not normally circles thing.

To summarize, all the factions have a little bit of what it sounds like you are looking for, but not all of them. I'd check out the PP boards and battlecollege http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/home and just kind of talk to people. Each faction also has multiple playstyles. And because the game works much differently none of them play exactly like anything in 40K.

Overall though, to start, I'd recommend playing menoth and focusing on the various exemplar units and one of the Kreosses for your caster. Here is their battlecollege page and it gives you info on the various units.
http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/mkiiprotectorate

Hope that helps.

J0kerrMT wrote:
Thanks for the help...but I refuse to believe that a central theme is not avialable in all armies or this would be chess.

So, is their a group that in general is more elite than the others?With in general better armor, and better accuracy?

Out of all hordes and warmachine

Refuse all you want, but that's not how it works. Every army handles these things differently and shooting isn't a stand alone strategy. You want a faction that can go heavy shooting lists, cygnar usually handles that well. However, Menoth can throw out blasts and sprays left and right and Khador can present strong firepower with tough units. High armor tends to be associated with Khador, but Skorne's heavy infantry and heavy beasts can put up a fair fight against that.

I think you need some more research into the game because this isn't 40k. You can't define units in terms that 40k does because it just doesn't work. Try watching some batreps from Wargamergirl: http://www.youtube.com/user/WarGamerGirl Her early videos aren't exactly accurate or particularly stellar games, but you'll see that the game has various dynamics that matter more than just armor and accuracy.

Khador is not a slow faction. Their warjacks are slow but they also only have heavy warjacks which are pretty much all slow. Khador infantry are generally of the same speed as other faction's infantry except for the Man-O-War, but again, those are extremely heavy infantry and have a SPD stat matching that of other faction's extremely heavy infantry. I think the idea that khador is somehow a slow faction must stem from somewhere, it is completely innaccurate.

Every faction can field fast units, tough units, accurate units, hard hitting units, melee units. They literally all have access to every style of unit in one form or another. Some factions have more access to certain types than others. Cygnar for instance, generally fields more really good shooting units than factions such as Khador, while Khador generally fields more hard hitting infantry than Cygnar, BUT, Khador has some good shooting units (widowmakers) and Cygnar has hard hitting infantry units (Stormblades). Stormblades are not identical to Khador's melee beatsticks, they get their jobs done a little differently and function slightly differently within their faction but at the end of the day, they are both melee beatsticks.

All factions can run any style list, its just that some armies have more options and accomplish these styles somewhat differently.

J0kerrMT wrote:
I was looking for in general out of raw stats...no spells...just what they are born with.

They're born with spells too. This is like wanting to know how space marines perform, without considering power armour, elites, or heavy support! Spells and feats are an integral part of the game - 'raw stats' only give the barest glimmer of what it's about, and give a very incomplete picture if that's all you're interested in.

J0kerrMT wrote:

Anyway...I have decided to stay with Cygnar...hopefully they can win a few

Don't be so melodramatic joker. cygnar are solid.

You basically want an eCaine Gun Mages force, they have high Def, elite cadre so can ALL use their ridiculous weapons in Melee, have a bag of cool tricks but not overly dependent on them and are some of (imo) the coolest models in the game.

The one problem is armour cracking but Black 13th, 2 units of ATGM and Tempest Blazers are a great little start, especially.

I say I hope they can win because I have watched close to 35 random battle on youtube...and they lost about 30 of them.

J0kerrMT wrote:
I say I hope they can win because I have watched close to 35 random battle on youtube...and they lost about 30 of them.

Check the big tourney breakdowns that they do on the pp boards, focus and fury etc, and you'll see they do far better than that. Faction win rates tend to be around forty to sixty perfect, which is pretty balanced.

Is there a link that can show me these results?

I play cygnar and I wish I could have played a different faction. No other faction has to play with its colossal and cygnar does . Their only lists that don't run a stormwall are ecain lists that run almost no cygnar units , not that there is anything bad about it and estryker which do run more cygnar stuff , offten of the stormnoun sort.

Cygnar doesn't have to play Stormwall at all. The reason why it does get used a lot because it is a really really good choice and why wouldn't you run your best choices. I play Cygnar and I am coping quite well in my local Meta without Stormwall.

J0kerrMT wrote:
Is there a link that can show me these results?

I guess you missed the part of my post where i gave specific sources - "Check the big tourney breakdowns that they do on the pp boards, focus and fury[u] etc"

simple answer?

Google it.

There are plenty resources on the internet joker. If you're genuinely interested, do your own legwork, and do some of your own research on it. And fir the record, YouTube videos are very far down the list of 'good sources of information'.

I'll give you a leg up, but frankly, the rest is on you. I'm not your dogsbody. here you go:

This one started a lot of the in depth tournament analysis 2012s Templecon.
http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?96216-Templecon-by-the-numbers&highlight=Templecon+breakdown

Please note, cygnar made up 12% of armies and had a 48% win%. Solid performance, considering all factions tended to range from 40odd to 50odd percent win%s.

Have a look at the various blogs. Muse on minis is a big one, but there are plenty others that are worth a look.
http://museonminis.com/numbers-2013-wmh-balance/

Please note that though it is an incomplete set of data, a lot of big tournament results get put into it. Cygnar do rather well. 14% of top 8 finishings in steamroller with 11% of the entries (and this is from a pie of seven warmachine factions, and five hordes factions - including Mercs and minions), 11% of the top 3 in the masters, and 12.5% in hardcore. Seems ok.

Elsewhere, you've got this gem
http://endgamegaming.net

Lots of information there with tourney results, tourney lists, the players themselves etc.

There's more. As I said, google it. A lot of this in depth analysis tends to be done by the warmachine and hordes organisers and players and gives a remarkably crunchy set of data to study. It's all there, just needs you to look for it.

Last place to check is the pp site forum. Faction breakdowns, and tourney standings, lists, individual match ups etc tend to get put up and discussed quite regularly in the individual faction forums, especially when someone wins a tourney with said faction (note the "(faction) takes (tournament name)!" Threads.

Edit: one last thing to note is the players involved. The 'player Element will play a role'. It's them that win, regardless of faction, a lot of the time. Take Jamie perkins. Uk masters champion for a few years with khador, switched to legion and won again.

The other thing to note is 'dice happen'. In a fame involving random dice, a single result can skew things and lead to a win or a loss.

If in an individual tournament, cygnar don't hit the top eight, or if trolls lose all of the three natch ups they had against khador, it may not be down to the factions. you have to factor in the possibilities that luck might have had so etching do do with it, or all those cygnar players were new and/or inexperienced. Or that they had the worst match ups possible.

These statistics give a good breakdown, but even their creators acknowledge that while they show a lot, they won't show everything. Kind of like a bikini.

Wow, Cryx really took it in the teeth there. Seems like people should really try to diversify Cryx beyond "ALL THE BANE THRALLS" strategies.

Well, the reason for the skew is probably because Cryx players are making the logical choice to take the strongest builds. And they are really strong.

However, this strength leads to people finding a counter and always bringing it because 1) you will face Cryx and 2) you must plan on how to deal with Bane spam.

This leads to the most dangerous lists often not being the ones that win, because everybody knows how to beat them.

Kinda like how vanilla Space Marines rarely win a big tournament because there are very popular so everybody knows they have to be able to take them on, as well as how to do it.

Makumba wrote:
I play cygnar and I wish I could have played a different faction. No other faction has to play with its colossal and cygnar does . Their only lists that don't run a stormwall are ecain lists that run almost no cygnar units , not that there is anything bad about it and estryker which do run more cygnar stuff , offten of the stormnoun sort.

Not true at all. Cygnar has plenty of ways to play without a colossal. eHaley, eCaine and eStryker were all competitive before the stormwall came out. eStryker can run a primarily melee list. eHaley can run a stormclad as her jack bullet. Siege likes the Stormwall, but he does just fine with a defender instead and more points to spend on units.

And since Colossals have been out plenty of people have ways to deal with them. And if they do it is a lot of points in one model to lose. So having a list without one is not a bad way to go as it forces your opponent to pay attention to more things and creates more vectors for yourself.

Although it is really good, the Stormwall is far from being the be all end all.

Though ultimately Cygnar is not for everyone. If it doesn't fit you then try another faction. In general it is pretty cheap to get a starterbox and a unit to try out another faction. Though Makumba, I know you have issues getting/buying models that most other people don't so it may not be as easy for you.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Well, the reason for the skew is probably because Cryx players are making the logical choice to take the strongest builds. And they are really strong.

However, this strength leads to people finding a counter and always bringing it because 1) you will face Cryx and 2) you must plan on how to deal with Bane spam.

This leads to the most dangerous lists often not being the ones that win, because everybody knows how to beat them.

Kinda like how vanilla Space Marines rarely win a big tournament because there are very popular so everybody knows they have to be able to take them on, as well as how to do it.

Well that's what I'm getting at. Banes are only strong if they aren't being countered but if they become too repetitive, as they have, they will always be countered. This may be a reawakening in Cryx and we'll see people suggest buying other undead gribblies with which to gribble their enemies! The way the internet talks of Cryx atm speaks of an almost stale faction that's been stuck on one trick. I cannot deny Banes are a really powerful unit but it's outshining a large section of the faction.

Cryx does have a bit of a problem. As in none of their releases are Gaspy or Denny or Banes.

I agree that they have a serious problem of infaction blindness. They can't see the Mechanithralls for the Banes.

Yes...good...march your banes into my ground pounder templates...I'll even have a special ellipsaw flinger saved for Mr. Tartarus.

On a more serious note, you think Siege could take on Cryx? He does have that aoe of ignore stealth. That would be nice. Anti-Cryx and anti-armor all in one list.

Joker, it looks like you sort of want someone to spoon feed you the win-button for the game... Unfortunately, there's no 5th Ed. Leaf Blower in Warmachine.

Between Cygnar and Retribution; Cygnar is one of the top dogs in the tournament scene, and Retribution will probably be the golden child of 2014 due to its two newest releases (Issyria and the House Guard Thane).

The best source of information is the Privateer Press boards, notably the Cygnar forum. The number of stickied threads there provide a MUCH better breakdown of the faction than Battle College (BC's a good website, but the big boards will provide greater detail and, for the most part, better information).

Here's the best part about the two factions (and all of them, really) unless you're in the top 8 for a Masters event, they are all equal and their effectiveness is a direct reflection of how you play them.

Really, play what you would like to see in front of you on a table and you'll be much happier - you can ignore pretty much any other advice beyond that because PP won't invalidate your army with the next release.

 dementedwombat wrote:
Yes...good...march your banes into my ground pounder templates...I'll even have a special ellipsaw flinger saved for Mr. Tartarus.

On a more serious note, you think Siege could take on Cryx? He does have that aoe of ignore stealth. That would be nice. Anti-Cryx and anti-armor all in one list.

Siege could work, but it's going to be an up hill battle against a lot of Cryx. His rocket barrage isn't going to necessarily wipe out banes left an right between rat 6 and tough and it's aoe of 4 means that a wise opponent will try to only give you 2-3 models at best and your chances to hit and kill are dampened. Follow that up with a less than stellar spell casting ability and he's kind of a pop and drop caster. It's doable, but you have to worry about high defense, arc nodes and other contingencies he doesn't cover well. So, I believe he can take on Cryx, but he doesn't have a hard counter to them imo.

And since Colossals have been out plenty of people have ways to deal with them.

Which of the counters to stormwalls have problems with countering any other cygnar jack. Anything that kills a stormwall in melee will kill a stormclad too. Black oil will work the same , A lot of the stuff that hurts the stormwall will hurt the clad more because fewer models are needed to kill it . A stormwall does melee , shoting , triangulation , pod blocking , covering fire . If someone wanted to do the same , he would have to take 2 defenders ,a cyclon and it would be less focus efficient , more costly in points and without the pods/lightning synergy .

And I did say that ecain doesn't need a stormwall , he doesn't use jacks at all and if then it is a Rowdy.

. I play Cygnar and I am coping quite well in my local Meta without Stormwall.

Not a stormwall question . But how do you deal with cethratic+kree+tyberion and double IF butcher 3 lists ?

If it doesn't fit you then try another faction. In general it is pretty cheap to get a starterbox and a unit to try out another faction. Though Makumba, I know you have issues getting/buying models that most other people don't so it may not be as easy for you.

Actualy there is only problems with merc factions and cygnar , because no one plays them , other stuff can be bought either from players or at the store . My problem is that my friends took all the other factions and am not allowed to double up on armies . But that is unimportant to cygnars playabilty or list building anyway.

Actualy there is only problems with merc factions and cygnar , because no one plays them , other stuff can be bought either from players or at the store . My problem is that my friends took all the other factions and am not allowed to double up on armies . But that is unimportant to cygnars playabilty or list building anyway.

I find that kind of funny since I have 5 factions that I can field a 35 point list for. And everyone I know who plays with any sort of regularity has at least 2 factions. So if you get the chance to get additional forces that might be good for you. Alternatively, try swapping lists with someone. My buddies and I do that now and then and it is not only fun, but really opens your eyes to how balanced the game really is.

 Surtur wrote:

 dementedwombat wrote:
Yes...good...march your banes into my ground pounder templates...I'll even have a special ellipsaw flinger saved for Mr. Tartarus.

On a more serious note, you think Siege could take on Cryx? He does have that aoe of ignore stealth. That would be nice. Anti-Cryx and anti-armor all in one list.

Siege could work, but it's going to be an up hill battle against a lot of Cryx. His rocket barrage isn't going to necessarily wipe out banes left an right between rat 6 and tough and it's aoe of 4 means that a wise opponent will try to only give you 2-3 models at best and your chances to hit and kill are dampened. Follow that up with a less than stellar spell casting ability and he's kind of a pop and drop caster. It's doable, but you have to worry about high defense, arc nodes and other contingencies he doesn't cover well. So, I believe he can take on Cryx, but he doesn't have a hard counter to them imo.

Bane Thralls, which is what most people refer to and have a problem with, are DEF 12 and ARM 15 and stealth. Ground pounder will make mincemeat of them. 6's to hit and 4's to kill is good. And if they do spread out you can focus on the banner and officer.

Siege has a lot of answers for things Cryx tends to do well, Stealth, infantry swarms, etc. He can ignore stealth, forests and cloud effects to assassinate the casters who think they are safe and open up lines of LOS thru blocking models. Being able to boost improves his accuracy quite a bit. As for hitting that is something that Cygnar does really well. Rangers can give Siege and his battlegroup a bonus. Explosivo makes range attacks magical for incorporeal. And Sieges feat may be kind of overkill, but it makes sure things are dead dead dead.

After Siege, you have to look at the things Cygnar has. Gun mages of all types work well against Cryx. Eiryss to remove buffs and focus. anything with e-leap to hit high DEF. Etc. The things Siege may have trouble with his units and solos do a great job on.

 jawn wrote:
Joker, it looks like you sort of want someone to spoon feed you the win-button for the game... Unfortunately, there's no 5th Ed. Leaf Blower in Warmachine.

Between Cygnar and Retribution; Cygnar is one of the top dogs in the tournament scene, and Retribution will probably be the golden child of 2014 due to its two newest releases (Issyria and the House Guard Thane).

The best source of information is the Privateer Press boards, notably the Cygnar forum. The number of stickied threads there provide a MUCH better breakdown of the faction than Battle College (BC's a good website, but the big boards will provide greater detail and, for the most part, better information).

Here's the best part about the two factions (and all of them, really) unless you're in the top 8 for a Masters event, they are all equal and their effectiveness is a direct reflection of how you play them.

Really, play what you would like to see in front of you on a table and you'll be much happier - you can ignore pretty much any other advice beyond that because PP won't invalidate your army with the next release.

I take a little offense to this. I am NOT looking for the easy or the win button. I was asking for a generality of play styles so that I could not also pick an army that I like the looks of, but also pick an army that fits the playstyle that I enjoy in miniature war games.

Why do you assume when someone asks about playstyles they are looking for the win button?


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PS - Also thinking of running a Circle army on the site with my Cygnar army

Not a stormwall question . But how do you deal with cethratic+kree+tyberion and double IF butcher 3 lists ?

At the moment the only Skorne player we have only has the battle box plus he has his fingers in 6 other factions that he hasn't touched them. As for Butcher3 my mate has his him on order so will be making an soon :-)

Cool always good to hear about cygnar players doing well.