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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Louisiana

 mikhaila wrote:

I pray daily that Khorne reaps Kirby's skull for his pile, and sanity returns.


I think many pray with you. He's going to be gone in a couple of years, one way or another. The question in my mind is how much the corporate culture has been stained by his input and how deeply. It may take a while to cut out the cancer Kirby leaves.

Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"

AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."

AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
 
   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

That assumes it has not affected the company in a terminal way.

For the GW we know now to become the GW it was way back when it was Games Workshop, it needs such a drastic reshape that it will not be the same entity it was the last 20ish years.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

weeble1000 wrote:
 mikhaila wrote:

I pray daily that Khorne reaps Kirby's skull for his pile, and sanity returns.


I think many pray with you. He's going to be gone in a couple of years, one way or another. The question in my mind is how much the corporate culture has been stained by his input and how deeply. It may take a while to cut out the cancer Kirby leaves.


Sorry, but while I wouldn't expect him to keep working longer in a job which appears to be nothing more than a cash dispenser for him, nothing under UK employment law will compel him to retire when he hits 65.

Circumstances might force him, he may choose to, but he doesn't have to. The thought of him doing the job because of the love of it in light of all the goings on, is too horrible to contemplate.

In other news, shares down another penny today, and after yesterday's intriguing movements, less than 15000 volume traded today, which is barely 10% of average.

I'm beginning to suspect an investment fund had been eyeing an acquisition and decided yesterday was the day to buy, as the price had found its nadir for now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 PsychoticStorm wrote:
That assumes it has not affected the company in a terminal way.

For the GW we know now to become the GW it was way back when it was Games Workshop, it needs such a drastic reshape that it will not be the same entity it was the last 20ish years.


While I agree with the general statement, I don't think a return to old GW is the answer either, for all the criticism levelled at Kirby, old GW nearly failed. GW does need to go forward, it just needs to be doing it differently.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/30 21:38:01


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
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Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

There have been five phases of GW.

Pre-history (late 70s)
Starting from a flat, Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone rode the wave of popularity of early RPGs by importing D&D and later on licensing other games like RuneQuest, and started Citadel Miniatures to make figures for them. A magazine called White Dwarf -- combining fantasy and SF elements -- was launched.

The Games Workshop Years (1980s)
During which they began to create a national presence and produced some of the wide range of games we still know and love today, like Judge Dredd, Talisman and so on.

The Rise of the Space Mariens (1990s)
In which 40K began to exceed all other titles for popularity and many spin off games like Necromunda, BFG and Epic were produced to exploit the background.

The Dark Lord Returns (early 2000s)
The LoTR licence produced massive growth for several years which was used to expand the retail chain. Unfortunately it all went wrong when the bubble burst.

After the Deluge (2005 to the present.)
When LoTR plummetted, GW were badly overextended. The Specialist games were gradually de-emphasised and WHFB and 40K became the only products. Although there had been considerable support of veterans, such as tournaments, this was gradually withdrawn until we arrive at the GW of today.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gr
Thermo-Optical Spekter





Greece

When I say the old GW and was thinking on expanding it, I did not mean the way GW was in the mid 80's to mid 90's but the spirit in which it worked.

Present GW is driven by numbers and has forgot the principles of operation and takes too many things for granted, there is no innovation, no attempt to greatness, just a rehash and an attempt to force people to buy more models that they already have to drive the sales forward.

I would rather like to see the company when it was not a rival with its fans (and game stores), when they did pioneer the wargaming scene when they had variety and senses, these are not incompatible with them making profit, they see it that way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/30 22:33:47


 
   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

Agreed. It feels like in the past 9 years they had come to think of veteran gamers as their worst enemies.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in fi
Longtime Dakkanaut




Problem with GW is that they act like a huge corporation which they're really not. Company like Apple or Microsoft can afford acting like "!#"!#¤% because for everyone who ragequits their products, there are dozens or hundreds of drones to mindlessly obey them. Medium sized company working in a niche industry like GW can't really go around like that because word gets around fast in much smaller customer base.

Talking about WHFB, funnily enough one tournament host here said that Fantasy tournaments have doubled their attendance and lots of WHFB veterans who used to revile 8th edition have come around and actually prefer 8th edition now that more armybooks have been updated. However, it's almost entirely old veterans playing their old armies: there is a distinct lack of new blood. The game is still played a lot, but doesn't sell much.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/30 23:38:26


Mr Vetock, give back my Multi-tracker! 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





GW not hating/at war with their own veteran fanbase is the first step to recovery.

My Armies:
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2,700pts
2,000pts


 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 Harriticus wrote:
GW not hating/at war with their own veteran fanbase is the first step to recovery.


Quite.

If anyone from GW with even a modicum of authority is reading, please know that the majority of even your harshest critics would love the opportunity to help if you'd let us.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

Ask me about
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Made in gb
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Wales: Where the Men are Men and the sheep are Scared.

 Harriticus wrote:
GW not hating/at war with their own veteran fanbase is the first step to recovery.



First step not hating or being at war with the people who buy your product.
Second being not hating and being at war with the people who sell your product.



 
   
Made in de
Decrepit Dakkanaut







weeble1000 wrote:
 mikhaila wrote:

I pray daily that Khorne reaps Kirby's skull for his pile, and sanity returns.

I think many pray with you. He's going to be gone in a couple of years, one way or another. The question in my mind is how much the corporate culture has been stained by his input and how deeply. It may take a while to cut out the cancer Kirby leaves.

Too bad, Kirby is protected by Papa Nurgle, because the latter has a crush for decaying companies

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Fixture of Dakka





Japan

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Agreed. It feels like in the past 9 years they had come to think of veteran gamers as their worst enemies.


Exactomundo, pissing of the customers with the deepest pockets must be the stupidest move since they started.

Squidbot;
"That sound? That's the sound of me drinking all my paint and stabbing myself in the eyes with my brushes. "
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We'll find out soon enough eh.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
Agreed. It feels like in the past 9 years they had come to think of veteran gamers as their worst enemies.


Exactomundo, pissing of the customers with the deepest pockets must be the stupidest move since they started.


I suspect GW are operating under British Unionist Logic(tm):

"It is better to have nothing at all than it is to have more than you do at the moment, but less than the hypothetical absolute maximum!"

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Kilkrazy wrote:
There have been five phases of GW. (snip)


Doesn't this timeline have a nice symmetry with the lore of the Imperium of Man in 40k? Started off struggling, then eventually conquered all, were strong, and then fell into decline? Where we are now - beset on all sides.

Perhaps the next game setting should be Games Workshop: 2015.


At the very least I smell a Kid Kyoto signature image in here somewhere.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/31 03:37:37


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
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UK

 Yodhrin wrote:

I suspect GW are operating under British Unionist Logic(tm):


Give it a rest mate. You sound like a broken record.
   
Made in us
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Alabama

 Ouze wrote:
 Kilkrazy wrote:
There have been five phases of GW. (snip)


Doesn't this timeline have a nice symmetry with the lore of the Imperium of Man in 40k? Started off struggling, then eventually conquered all, were strong, and then fell into decline? Where we are now - beset on all sides.

Perhaps the next game setting should be Games Workshop: 2015.





Oh the possibilities! Moving your unit of Unsuspecting Gamers through the desolate land of abandoned GW stores and the empty shell of LFGSs left in their wake only to find them ambushed by Sales Reps on Turn 2 and eventually Management entering from the Store Edge. That is a bleak situation since Management models have the 'Price Hike' USR and can make Finecast copies of themselves.

WH40K
Death Guard 5100 pts.
Daemons 3000 pts.

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Made in gb
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We'll find out soon enough eh.

 Velour_Fog wrote:
 Yodhrin wrote:

I suspect GW are operating under British Unionist Logic(tm):


Give it a rest mate. You sound like a broken record.


Two topics and one offhand comment, out of 32 threads and just shy of 1000 posts, I'm completely obsessed!

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in no
Regular Dakkanaut




Posted on Warseer:

Archibald_TK wrote:Hey guys, I know I'm dropping in the middle of conversations I didn't even read, but I found something interesting while writing a post on the WD thread that may interest some of you.

GW France apparently has to make their results public. It's interesting since they are a big market. I calculated, assuming an average pound at 1.2€ for that year, that mid 2012 they represented slightly below 28% of all European revenues. Of course since it's me calculating something I may have messed up so feel free to toy with the numbers yourself (if you manage to understand anything :p)

Anyway here is the interesting part, those are GW France revenues in € (not in £ as I brainlessly assumed first) from June to June each year, the second number is the profit:

2013: Missing
2012: 13.532.200€ / 365.600€
2011: Missing
2010: 14.590.000€ / 580.000€
2009: 16.450.000€ / 1.160.000€
2008: 17.390.000€ / 1.400.000€
2007: 18.340.000€ / 970.000€
2006: 21.240.000€ / 1.820.000€
2005: 27.270.000€ / 3.290.000€
2004: 27.650.000€ / 3.500.000€

As you can see, revenues were in constant fall since 2004 (with 2011 being the mystery year for obscure reasons), that country did not see any reprieve or rebound at least until 2013.


   
Made in jp
[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer






Somewhere in south-central England.

2005 was the end of the LoTR bubble, which explains the big drop in sales in 2006-2007. Since then there has been a gradual decline.

It's hard to know why profits would decline so quickly in 2010 and 2012 -- some sort of extraordinary charges, perhaps.

GW worldwide total sales have not shown the same pattern of apparently continuous decline since 2005, as far as I am aware.

I presume your figures are not adjusted for inflation.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Et In Arcadia Ego





Canterbury

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/criticalintel/10946-Games-Workshop-is-Dead-Long-Live-Games-Workshop


Spoiler:

On January 16th, Games Workshop announced that its profit dropped by £3.4 million compared to the same period last year. Once that arcane utterance hit the internet, the Eye of Terror opened. Fell things came forth to pick the company's corpse. Heretics spread rumors and uttered blasphemies about price hikes. Games Workshop's empire, the headlines said, was burning.

Except that's not really true. Games Workshop is far from dead - though it will have to confront many structural problems in the grim darkness of the near future.

GAMES WORKSHOP ISN'T DEAD - BUT IT DID TAKE A WOUND
Though it took a glancing hit, the venerable dreadnaught GW lumbers on. While it's true that a dip in profits is worrying, making a £7.7 million profit - rather than an £11.1 million one - isn't the same thing as running at a loss. A stock selloff precipitated by a poor earnings report isn't a good thing by any measure, but it's not the apocalypse. Games Workshop's stock price, even after the drop, is around £5.50 a share - that's £3.50 more than it was in 2009. Also note that this was only a half-year report, so while GW isn't expected to make its £22.5 million full-year forecast, they'll certainly make more than £7.7 million in 2013-2014. Its specialty miniature company Forge World and fiction imprint The Black Library are both doing fine. The company's financially solvent, with £9 million worth of cash in their bank account and zero debts. So while it's true GW's profits aren't as big as they've been in the past, let's not get dramatic - this is hardly a company that's burning to the waterline.

That's not to say, however, that GW doesn't have challenges it needs to face down. There are many structural problems that the company will face in the years ahead, from pricing, to an aging customer base and even new manufacturing techniques.

MINIATURES SHOULDN'T COST AS MUCH AS A REAL-LIFE BANEBLADE
If I walked into a GW store today and bought a ten-man Space Marine squad, a Rhino and five Citadel Paints to gussie them up, I'd pay about $100 after tax.

One. Hundred. US. Dollars. That's $40 for the marines, $37.25 for the Rhino, and $20 for five paint pots.

One hundred dollars. For single troops choice and a dedicated transport.

That's insane. Like Astropath-pulling-too-much-overtime insane. Citadel Miniatures have never been a cheap product, but during the ten years I played I watched the price per-mini skyrocket. In 2003 I remember paying $30 a box for 20 plastic Cadian Shock Troopers, now it's $29 for half as many models. Meanwhile, the points cost to field a basic trooper went down, meaning Imperial Guard players needed more of the models that had doubled in price. And that's not even mentioning the new hardcover army Codexes, which go for $50 a pop.

What happened was this: Games Workshop decided that their miniatures, already expensive, should become a premium product. Around the time of the price hikes, GW informational literature to investors and independent retailers started referring to their product as "The Best Toy Soldiers In the World." While they have a point - Citadel makes excellent miniatures - I feel that perspective convinced GW management that they could take on a premium-pricing model. Their market dominance meant that they had few competitors, and increasing profits could fund retail expansion, please shareholders and make up for the recession. Furthermore, price hikes (and occasional new units) were a way to increase profits from existing customers who only bought a few units a year. But here's the problem: Every time they used price hikes to squeeze existing customers who'd already bought into the game, they raised entry cost for new players. That makes it harder to recruit the 13 and 14 year-olds who're critical in sustaining the hobby the long term. After all, why would teens pay $500 to create an army when they can get their strategy fix from League of Legends? This is why Forge World - a luxury brand that targets older players with more money - is doing fine, while the core game suffers.

And as the premium-pricing model weeds out the younger players, you run into a bigger problem from the other end.

THE LONG FANGS CAN'T MAKE TIME
When I was in college, I never thought twice about taking 5-6 hours out of my Monday to play 40k. Leaving school at 4:15 PM for a 5:00 PM game wasn't unthinkable; neither was sitting in a diner afterwards talking about Necrons past midnight. Not so much once I started an 8:30-5:30 office job, and definitely not since I've gotten married. I've got less time now, it's the downside of being an adult.

Scheduling a match wouldn't feel so insurmountable, except that 40k keeps taking longer to play. Individual 40k games have more units these days. Lower points values per unit. More models per game. Apocalypse formations and flyers. I suspect GW wanted to create a contrast between 40k and smaller-scale skirmish games like Warmachine - or coax players into buying more plastic.

Either way, that has a consequence in terms of time. Play a troop-heavy army like infantry-based Guard or swarming Tyranids and it's not unthinkable to take a 45-minute turn. Finishing a game in four hours feels like an accomplishment.. Add in painting time and you've got a rules set that's untenable for many adults - i.e. the people able to afford premium-priced miniatures. This is anecdotal evidence, to be sure, but among my old gaming group, everyone who used to play 40k has moved onto quick-playing skirmish games like Malifaux and Warmachine. Not to mention the folks that transitioned to video games instead, since they're easier to play thirty minutes at a time.

What's sad about this is that Games Workshop has published several excellent skirmish games in the past - Necromunda and Mordheim in particular - that provided a lower-cost, faster-playing alternative that also served as an entry point to the hobby. If they wanted to walk that road again, it wouldn't fix things in the long term, but it'd be a start.

THE TERRIFYING NECRON MENACE OF 3D PRINTING
One day soon, 3D printing is going to wipe Games Workshop off the map. In that golden future, we'll print ready-made miniatures at home, copy Space Marines ad infinitum, babies will weep only diamonds and no one will ever fail an armor save.

At least that's what some disgruntled fans say.

I don't buy it. Look guys, GW execs don't have cotton balls stuffed in their ears. They know all about 3D printing and the Hero Forge Kickstarter. They realize 3D printing could be a business threat. But here's the thing - they could easily launch their own web UI that lets you design and print a custom Space Marine Captain. It wouldn't surprise me if GW's experimenting with it right now, and because they're GW, they'll buy the best printers and find out how to make the best 3D printed models in the business. Say what you will about their policies, but GW has been making high-quality miniatures for three decades and has continually improved their methods and technology. There's no way they'll let a cheaper, more versatile production method undercut their product.

GAMES WORKSHOP STORES: NOT WORTH THE POINTS COST
Games Workshop lives and dies by its brick-and-mortar stores. That network allows the company to control its product's price structure to an impressive degree and is central in promoting the brand and attracting repeat customers. They're not just stores, they're monetized community centers. However, recently GW has rolled out a new plan to cut stores down to one employee and limit stock so that each location becomes more profitable. According to GW's acting chief executive Tom Kirby, the profit dip in the last report was entirely due to this restructuring. However, I can't see how reducing store hours (you can only ask one man to work so many days a week) and floor space is going to work in the long term, particularly since less space to play means a reduced community scene around the shop. Then again, I've read some arguments that GW stores are the problem, with rent and employee fees necessitating that GW as a whole sell more product and at higher prices. If true, it essentially means that we, the customers, are essentially paying a surcharge to shop at Games Workshop stores. That's an especially ugly thought if you shop at an independent retailer a thousand miles from the nearest Games Workshop, as I did.

But no matter where it derives from, GW needs to ease off on their infamous price control. To stock GW products as an independent retailer, for example, you have to order a minimum amount and dedicate a certain amount of shelf space to it - and of course, GW sets the prices. But it gets wilder than that. Last April the company announced that they'd cut ties with any independent retailers that sold GW products over the internet to Australia, since gamers there were ordering from overseas to avoid the the 60-90% markup in local GW stores. In other words, rather than price its products competitively, GW opted to region lock a physical product. This weird ethos even carries over to The Black Library, which doesn't offer ebooks on the Kindle store. Instead, they're on the Black Library website, presumably so they can sell them one dollar under the paperback price.

Look, I'm not a business analyst. Nor I have I worked retail. I don't pretend any special insight, but I doubt such a selfish strategy can last. There are three parties in this equation - GW, retailers and customers - and the current system only benefits one of them. At some point, the other two will choose to go play a different game.

There are people that would love to see Games Workshop burn. Jaded fans. Competitors. Downtrodden retailers. I don't share that view. Games Workshop isn't some unchanging emperor, kept alive via life support as his realm decays. The company is, if anything, a portly middle-aged man with a cigarette habit - he'll be dead in ten years if he does nothing, but if he kicks the smokes and drops a few pounds, who knows?

In the grim darkness of the far future, Games Workshop may be with us after all.



The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
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Pleasant Valley, Iowa

I thought that was generally a good article but the 3d printing part was kind of a off-topic tangent.

Also, it's kind of funny how little actual content was in that article when you look at Red's quote vs spreading it over 3 pages and tarting it up with images, huh? Very apropo for a Games Workshop thread, shades of WD.



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/01/31 09:03:43


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in gb
Noise Marine Terminator with Sonic Blaster





Melbourne

Yeah, also like everyone else that shouts "but they still made a big profit!!!" he didn't mention that their cash position declined by approx. a third somehow despite mentioning their current cash position.

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Frostgrave

If the rumours about scrapping all their metal stocks are true then it's a pretty bad sign, back of envelope figures show that they are selling the metal off for under about 2.5% of the potential value as minis.

Though I can see why they are doing it just before the end of the tax year; it'll prop up their bottom line by maybe as much as £200k whilst dropping about £8million in unsold product and a significant amount of warehousing space.

But it feels very short-termist and shows a complete reluctance to engage with or seem to offer deals to the customer base, both of which approaches would have earned them much more money in the same term.
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

I understand why GWS (and some other luxury brands, for that matter) think destroying their stock to preserve their status is a good decision, but I don't especially agree with it, personally. .

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/31 09:34:44


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in ax
Perfect Shot Dark Angels Predator Pilot





 carlos13th wrote:
 Harriticus wrote:
GW not hating/at war with their own veteran fanbase is the first step to recovery.



First step not hating or being at war with the people who buy your product.
Second being not hating and being at war with the people who sell your product.


Third not hating and being at war with the people that promote your products.

Also a good point in the article GW's current pricing scheme of "premium products" is directly competing with Forgeworld their own brand...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/31 09:44:40


A Dark Angel fell on a watcher in the Dark Shroud silently chanted Vengance on the Fallen Angels to never be Unforgiven 
   
Made in gb
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Wales: Where the Men are Men and the sheep are Scared.

Bishop F Gantry wrote:
 carlos13th wrote:
 Harriticus wrote:
GW not hating/at war with their own veteran fanbase is the first step to recovery.



First step not hating or being at war with the people who buy your product.
Second being not hating and being at war with the people who sell your product.


Third not hating and being at war with the people that promote your products.


Very true.

"You seem to be helping to promote our products and getting the gaming public more intrested in our releases and game, how fething dare you."



 
   
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Melbourne

Herzlos wrote:
Though I can see why they are doing it just before the end of the tax year


The "tax year" doesn't apply to companies in the same way it applies to employees. GW's tax year ends at the end of May (so they're pretty much doing it in the middle of the year).

Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
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Herzlos wrote:
If the rumours about scrapping all their metal stocks are true then it's a pretty bad sign, back of envelope figures show that they are selling the metal off for under about 2.5% of the potential value as minis.


Key point: potential value. If this is stuff that's just collecting dust in a warehouse somewhere because hardly anyone is buying it then that potential value might as well not exist. Worse, it actually costs money to keep it, so GW is actually getting less than 0% of the "value". And in that case it's better to get 2.5% of the theoretical retail price and clear out the inventory space than to keep it forever in the desperate hope that someone will buy it.

Consider an analogy: I can believe that I'm an awesome painter and put a model on ebay for $1 million, but I'd be pretty stupid to refuse an offer of $25,000 just because it's only 2.5% of my arbitrarily-assigned sale price.

But it feels very short-termist and shows a complete reluctance to engage with or seem to offer deals to the customer base, both of which approaches would have earned them much more money in the same term.


But you're looking at that too narrowly. Let's say GW offers you a $15 character model for $5 instead of selling it for $1 for scrap metal. You might think that GW just earned $4 more by offering you a discount, but what if buying that character model means that you don't buy the $15 plastic character model that has a similar role in your army? GW earned $4 more for their scrap metal, but it probably cost them more than $4 from the lost sale of the plastic kit. And, worse, they've potentially set up the expectation of more discounts in the future, which might make you hesitate to spend money right now if you think you might get a better deal in the future. So it's quite possible that they've analyzed the situation and decided that it's in their best interest to just destroy the obsolete stock and sell it for scrap metal.

Also, remember that this is stuff that isn't selling very well enough to convert to finecast or plastic, and TBH a lot of it is pretty bad models that wouldn't get any attention if it wasn't a "last chance to buy" situation. I don't think it's very realistic to expect significant increases in sales just because GW does a little marketing work.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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Greece

 carlos13th wrote:

Very true.

"You seem to be helping to promote our products and getting the gaming public more intrested in our releases and game, how fething dare you."


Unfortunately their point of view is even worse.

They dread anybody mentioning their products and not been them, they want their products to be mentioned in the vacuum and only under strict corporate propaganda, leaving others mentioning their products leaves them uncomfortable, so they rather not have anybody mention their products than them, than people actively speak for their products, unregulated.

Their "inability to understand the Internet", their aggressive whichunt of fans and funsites, their strict and questionable regulations for retailers or their adhesiveness to their own stores is at least in some part related with that and it should infer their confidence of their product.
   
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Frostgrave

 Peregrine wrote:
Herzlos wrote:
If the rumours about scrapping all their metal stocks are true then it's a pretty bad sign, back of envelope figures show that they are selling the metal off for under about 2.5% of the potential value as minis.


Key point: potential value. If this is stuff that's just collecting dust in a warehouse somewhere because hardly anyone is buying it then that potential value might as well not exist. Worse, it actually costs money to keep it, so GW is actually getting less than 0% of the "value". And in that case it's better to get 2.5% of the theoretical retail price and clear out the inventory space than to keep it forever in the desperate hope that someone will buy it.

Consider an analogy: I can believe that I'm an awesome painter and put a model on ebay for $1 million, but I'd be pretty stupid to refuse an offer of $25,000 just because it's only 2.5% of my arbitrarily-assigned sale price.



Yes, potential value, and if the stuff isn't shifting it's because the market thinks the value is too high. There's going to be an optimal sales point between the current RRP and the scrap value where all of the stock will be sold off whilst giving GW more money, that they don't even seem interested in testing for that point, rather than just dumping the lot as scrap, is what I find odd. I'd expect any company that's posted the drop in revenue that they have, to be doing everything possible to increase the money they take in rather than going for the easiest option.


But it feels very short-termist and shows a complete reluctance to engage with or seem to offer deals to the customer base, both of which approaches would have earned them much more money in the same term.

But you're looking at that too narrowly. Let's say GW offers you a $15 character model for $5 instead of selling it for $1 for scrap metal. You might think that GW just earned $4 more by offering you a discount, but what if buying that character model means that you don't buy the $15 plastic character model that has a similar role in your army? GW earned $4 more for their scrap metal, but it probably cost them more than $4 from the lost sale of the plastic kit. And, worse, they've potentially set up the expectation of more discounts in the future, which might make you hesitate to spend money right now if you think you might get a better deal in the future. So it's quite possible that they've analyzed the situation and decided that it's in their best interest to just destroy the obsolete stock and sell it for scrap metal.


That's assuming people would buy the new thing at the new price, when they already won't buy the equivalent thing at the old price (and none of the plastic/FC replacements have been cheaper than the metals, from what I can gather).

I also don't see how offering a discount on end of line stuff generates an expectation of discounts in the way that, say, a January sale would. Stuff may be reduced but once it's gone there's nothing else to discount.

Also, remember that this is stuff that isn't selling very well enough to convert to finecast or plastic, and TBH a lot of it is pretty bad models that wouldn't get any attention if it wasn't a "last chance to buy" situation. I don't think it's very realistic to expect significant increases in sales just because GW does a little marketing work.


Marketing work, like having someone spend 30 seconds knocking out an email to the mailing list saying that all the metal stocks in the webstore are going to 50% off until they are gone? The cost to the company would be recovered with a couple of small sales.

As in the other thread, and I know that it's anecdotal, but if GW did that today, I'd spend enough with them alone for the admin work to be worthwhile for them.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/01/31 11:38:24


 
   
 
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