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Hello
dunno if this is more a "40k tactics" or a "40k list"; it's more an "help me building lists" so please forgive me and move the post if it's in wrong place

i'm a fairly new player but i played some games in the last 2 months; i used a lot of lists, some bad, some very ugly; i played match vs ultramarines, eldar, tau, eldar+tau, necron... and i won only 1 game so far (versus a not-so-much experienced player...)
we will start a campaign next month so i wish i could arrange some lists

the list i had more fun playing was this one:

- libby on bike
- priest on bike w/ power weapon
- 8-men bike squad w/ 2x meltagun + attack bike w/ multi melta
- 10-men assault squad w jump pack and 2x flamer (hand flamer on sergeant)
- priest on jump pack
- yet another 10-men assault squad etc etc (total of 20 assault marine and 2 sanguinary priest)
- 10x tactical (w flamer and ml) with razorback (flamer, sergeant and 3 marine on razorback; missile and 4 marine on foot)
- baal predator
- stormraven

stormraven did his best killing wraithknight and popping a waveserpent; bike proved to be both useful and tough, and assault really reaped his warp spiders and made farseer (and jetbike troops) flee. I lost 11 to 7 (at kill the xeno) but it was funny

however, today i had a rematch and i changed something
i removed Baal Predator (was totally useless on previous match) and razorback (low av veichles are useful only to give "first kill" to enemies... ) and squeezed an inquisitorial chimera with ordo xenos, 3x meltagun acolytes and 3x multi-melta servitor
was an almost total disaster 'cause he charged me and i was unable to open fire with melta. Bike still proven to be the great but at the end of 2nd turn where decimated; wraithknight destroyed one assault unit, while inquisitorial was unable to shoot him down. SR never came from reserve

I looked at the list hundred of times and it seems like i'm missing something, something important... what?
so... what should i do to improve the list? i mean: to build a completely new one and perhaps something funny and playable too?

- i read on internet many tactics using a lot of veichles
in my (really short) experience rhino and razorback are popped too soon and are good only for enemies first kill; LR however are really good but also really expensive
- stormraven is used by almost everyone. i used it 3 times: first time was completely awful and useless, second time was best unit on table, and third time was... well... in reserve all the time -_-
it's expensive (model too is expensive x_x i had to papercraft them but was a week-long work x_x ) so i would not risk for a "could be useful, but also useless"
- baal predator i tried using a couple of time with no results. A friend of mine adviced me to use them with outflank for surprise attack, but 140 point looks very expensive to me, and a total waste if they come outside at the wrong time...
- i like scout squad: long range (thanks also to infiltrate) and nice damage vs monstrous creatures, but 90 point is not cheap
- i like also bike squad: though, well armed and fast. however cannot keep the pace of eldar's jetbike, cannot avoid tau missiles and are no match to necron's wraith. most important: if they turbo forward, are completely alone and doomed to be decimated
- dreadnaught i used a couple of time, everytime ended exploding at the end of first turn. This also happens to rhinos/razorbacks/chimeras...
- i almost never used special characthers, save from corbulo a couple of time (FNP 2+ is a gooood thing ). also, never used Mephiston: too fragile and seems like i will need to build an army just for it (ie an unit with priest used only to keep him safe...). Dante or the other ones are just too expensive and if you did'nt build an army aroud them are a totally waste

what can i do?
a friend of mine adviced me to bring allies... but which ones?
- i like bike and am battle brother with withe scars. it looks like a good choice.
- IG could be the better choices: cheap, with firepower and huge tanks. but the problem is: i really really really dislike IG miniatures @_@ and i would never buy or paint one...
- Tau however is something i would like to buy and paint. but not battle brothers so i can't use all tau's abilities nor they could use BA's
- Inquisition, i tried it sometime but with very low effect :( i can still try but options are many and i miss how to use it in a BA's army
problem with allies is: i will end up using all the allies army and just a little BA? and it's really useful to get some allies who can't benefit from some useful thing (like sanguinary priest)

well, thanks for reading until the end of this wall post, and i hope someone could give me an advice or two
have a nice forum reading

Alright so, I think you should use all assault marines... they are by far our best troop choice. get a bunch of 5-man in razorbacks with las/plas. Baal Preds are good... in pairs. I don't really know about the bike squad... I never use them. The list I'm using in a tourney soon goes like this-

Libby-100
TH/SS Termis-225
Curbulo-105
Fragnought in pod w/ heavy flamer-170
assault squad w/ Razorback w/ Las/Plas-155
assault squad w/ Razorback w/ Las/Plas-155
assault squad w/ Razorback w/ Las/Plas-155
Baal Predator w/ Flamestorm and Heavy Bolters-145
Baal Predator w/ Flamestorm and Heavy Bolters-145
Vindicator-145

You don't need to do the Death Star and you can get A Raven, and another assault squad, and maybe even more.

mmmhhh
ok
this is one list i created today (without bike)

- 10-men Jump Assault Squad w 2x flamer
- Librarian w/ power armor and jump pack
- Sanguinary priest w PW
- 5-men Assault Squad w meltagun on a razorback w TL HB
- 5-men Assault Squad w meltagun on a razorback w TL HB
- 5-men Assault Marines w flamer on a pod; sergeant has 2x hand flamer. they enter in turn 2+
- 5-men Scout Squad w/ snipers and camo cloak

- Furioso Dreadnought w frag cannon, blood fist with heavy flamer and magna grapple; in a pod (turn 1)
- Furioso Dreadnought w frag cannon, blood fist with heavy flamer and magna grapple; in a pod (turn 1)

- Baal predator, maybe on outflank reserve
- Baal predator, maybe on outflank reserve
- Stormraven w assault cannon and heavy bolter

i did also
- a list pretty similar with bike in lieu of dreadnaught and las/plas razorback
- a list with 2x land rider and 2x las/plas razorback (and no dreadnaught)
- one with bike and no razorback (just a lot of 10-men jump assault) and drop pod-ed dreadnaught but no stormraven
- one with Terminator TH/SS and Terminator libby inside a LR, one assault in a LR and 2x assault on Heavy Flamers razorback, plus a lascannon predator and a stormraven (no dreadnaught nor baal)

i need to test them all, and of course just a single match is'nt enough...
next month we will start a campaign with some friends (assuming all will play there are: eldar, necron, tau, IG, SM imperial fist, me with BA and the last one dunno if tyranids or SW) so i'm trying some army list, also because i'm pretty noob and i lost every match i fought... (well, i won 1...).
i'm searching for a generic "template" list i could use as a base for every army list i will fight, or better a couple of combination (ie one more mecha, one more assault, one more defensive...)
the problem is everytime i use a low av veichle (ie rhino or razorback or chimera or... whatelse) it's a miracle if it survive at the end of first turn, and that means almost everytime is a waste of point

but what about some allies?
i tried sometime adding an inquisitorial detachment, cheap way to get a lot of special weapon, a veichle slight better than rhino or some nasty item (like a conversion beamer). They are valid?
and what about some other allies, like: white scars for bike, ravenguard for shrike and infiltrating asm, tau for heavy firepower, etc?
they are valid options or not?

I'm not sure... None of your secondary lists seem to have a lot of scoring...I would ditch the SP, get las/Plas, and give the unit with flamers meltas instead... That's like an insta- dead tank. I'm starting tau allies, but haven't used them yet so I can't tell you. Of course, I can't expect tau to be bad...

 Glorywarrior wrote:
I'm not sure... None of your secondary lists seem to have a lot of scoring...I would ditch the SP, get las/Plas, and give the unit with flamers meltas instead... That's like an insta- dead tank. I'm starting tau allies, but haven't used them yet so I can't tell you. Of course, I can't expect tau to be bad...

SP is a good thing for an assault squad advancing through the field and assaulting; it saved my marines many times. Plus, it's 6" from him, not just his unit, so i can get more unit closer and have FNP on more than one unit
i normally play with 3 SP, one for each assault and/or one for bike (it depends on army list ofc)

i got 30 scoring miniatures, on 5 different squad... that's not enough?

 Glorywarrior wrote:
Umm... you don't have any marines advancing up to assault in your list. I concede that SP's can be good...in ten man units of assault marines. Your main list has good scoring... I was saying the rest don't really.

well, i got...

- 10-men Jump Assault Squad w 2x flamer
- Librarian w/ power armor and jump pack
- Sanguinary priest w PW

that's an assault squad running (jumping, to be honest) from deploy to scoring position... ie assaulting objective in enemy sides, grabbing/protecting relic, etc
the other ones are box with gun (and hopefully can resist a couple of turns thanks to enemy shooting down fragioso or baal predator)

or i could make a full mecha list, replacing assault unit and priest with a 5 men unit inside a veichle... dunno if i can afford a LR

maybe i will try this list next weekend against IG or Tau... this would work?