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I am trying to start a business this year producing gaming terrain. I have been selling it on eBay for a while to test the waters and I want to take the next step into full production. I was thinking of trying Kickstarter as a means of doing so. I have zero experience with how this works. Could someone who has used their services before give me some tips and/or advice on what the best way is to make this a success?

While I cant offer any advice on the business side of things there are many kick-starter threads here. Look at them look at the individual kick-starters and look at the common complaints many people have had with them to see what to avoid.

Also don't put yourself in a situation where you are giving away so much stuff from the stretch goals you are barely making anything from it.

Avoid Defiance Games.

Read the Kickstarter terms thoroughly. Realize that at least 10% of what you get will go to Kickstarter and Amazon. Also, check with a tax consultant to figure out how much may have to go to your yearly taxes. So, keep in mind that even if you raise $50K, you may only get to keep, say, $35K of it for your project.

Yeah I was wondering how they would classify the money that was donated. So far I have made just the 15mm stuff for Flames of War, Command Decision and/or Gruntz. I will eventually be doing pieces for fantasy and futuristic 25-28mm. The pieces I have produced so far have been selling well, but to expand my production ability I need to raise the funds to hire a company to do the production. I ultimately want to have them done in plastic but that is a much higher expense.

Ok, you've got products out there already and so examples of your work that people can look at.

Advertise months in advance, recommend six months and showcase your current work.

Have a look around, seek to a few production companies and then pick one for the work so you're already to go if and when the Kickstarter is successful.

Don't go crazy with the stretch goals and rewards, just offer what you think you're capable of delivering.

Hope that helps.

Join this group:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/630412297019422/

I already have inquiries out to companies for price quotes so that I know in advance of how much it will cost and how fast I can have it. I want to have my ducks in a row so that if I decide to do this then I can just give the word and have production go right to work. I want donators to have their product right away. I have seen way too many kickstarters that have been funded for months and people are still waiting on their goods.

Tressel wrote:
I already have inquiries out to companies for price quotes so that I know in advance of how much it will cost and how fast I can have it. I want to have my ducks in a row so that if I decide to do this then I can just give the word and have production go right to work. I want donators to have their product right away. I have seen way too many kickstarters that have been funded for months and people are still waiting on their goods.

Fair dues.

Then just start promoting it months before you start the actual project, you can post preview links to help get feedback and build interest.

Amazon/Kickstarter have fees, so factor these into your target goal and perhaps a bit extra to cover shipping costs.

Check out shipping costs - they are becoming a nightmare from the States to the RoW. Perhaps see if someone in Europe would be a retailer for you and have the pledges to Europe handled by them. (You would have to find a reputable retailer that you can trust to do this though - perhaps something to be looked into long term rather than at the kickstarter stage.)

Also add on the cost of lost/damaged shipment replacements (product, packaging, and shipping) and factor this into your costs. Quite often kickstarters don't do this and end up either losing the profit or indeed going into the red.

Set the initial goal realistically, and the same with any stretch goals, they should be enticing to the backer but actually still make you a small profit to cover your living expences whilst doing it.

Get examples made prior to the kickstarter - backers prefer to 'see' what they are going to back for rather than read about it.

The other 2 main points have already been mentioned, start marketing your upcoming kickstarter ASAP and make sure you are not giving away too much as stretch goals.

Finally would just like to say 'Good Luck'. Make sure you let us all know when it will launch.

Unless you can get a swinging deal on the plastic, resin might be better for terrain. For example Tabletop Workshop put out 2 perfectly nice looking plastic buildings. But at $30+ each, they are pretty expensive compared to Armorcast's resin offerings and move into GW price, but with less bits and detail (admittedly less skulls though). Its my understanding that plastic just costs so dang much unless you're moving a ton of product, it might just end up driving the price per unit so high it causes people t balk at buying. Having worked with Trollcast from the Impact Chibi dungeon explorer line, I think something like that might work as well. It didnt work well for Tre Manor's needs, but the figures are so much more delicate than, say a 28mm house or fortification would need to be. Might be something to look into.

Having backed a ton of projects, I would argue the need to keep any successful project narrow in scope. IE don't mix 15mm and 28mm terrain in the same project, because your backers will be pulling you in two different directions. Same w sci-fi/fantasy/modern. I would also argue most project creators don't factor in stretch goals in their shipping estimates. Backers do not either. This was where something like Relic Knights or Reaper's original bones took a hit. The deadline might have been fine for the initial 30 minis. When it exploded to 100+ figures, that just is going to take more time to sculpt, make molds, cast, etc. Offering shipping in waves (even if you charge for that) and make sure they know that new goals often come with longer waits.

I'd love to see more plastic/resin 28mm terrain, so wish you the best!

Please share the link to what you currently have if you have a website.

Make sure you give yourself considerably more time to deliver than you think you need to cover the fact that gak happens.

I am at the very early stages of this so no website yet I'm afraid. For the first attempt I am just doing a small offering of 15mm terrain. If it is successful I do intend to expand into some 25-28mm pieces as well. Here are a few examples of the pieces I have made so far plus a few that are in the works.

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=126&aff=52&aft=560593&afv=topic

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=126&aff=52&aft=560926&afv=topic

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=126&aff=52&aft=560925&afv=topic

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=126&aff=52&aft=560823&afv=topic

I also have some other items that I have been making that are not resin. There are a lot more available. Just search by other auctions.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131101973233?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141161381816?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141164951796?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131062485958?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1561.l2649

Tressel wrote:
I already have inquiries out to companies for price quotes so that I know in advance of how much it will cost and how fast I can have it. I want to have my ducks in a row so that if I decide to do this then I can just give the word and have production go right to work. I want donators to have their product right away. I have seen way too many kickstarters that have been funded for months and people are still waiting on their goods.

Even so, add a month or two onto your estimate, because something unexpected will come up. If not, then you get to impress your backers by delivering early.

Though the best advice I can give is--talk to your backers after funding. Let them know how things are going. If there's a delay, let them know at once and explain why there's a delay and what the new schedule is. As well as being good for the backers, it'll be good for you too, generating goodwill and a sense of investment in your stuff. Look at the Raging Heroes / Relic Knights KS thread vs the Darklands / Kingdom Death ones for examples of what not to do, and what to do.

I ran my own Kickstarter for some Steampunk Artillery pieces, I aimed small, but got blown away by the response, setting my initial goal at £600 and getting around £7200 in backing. I also fell foul of things going wrong in the casting process which lead to delays which are still biting me in the butt now

What I would suggest is that you make sure you control the quantities properly, if your a small one man outfit, put in hard limits on the number of sets you could have to deal with at a maximum, though obviously set that above what you need to fund the project.

Also, assume worst case scenario's will be accurate for time taken in all stages of production, and likewise for costs, no matter how confident you are you have things planned out accurately, things can and probably will go wrong at some point. Working that way you will almost certainly delivery under budget and ahead of time - both of which can only be good.

Working like that does mean you'll probably get less backing, but it will make things infinitely easier on yourself, and put you in a good place for longer term production and sales.

Just my 2p.

You ran that steampunk artillery campaign, Col.Gravis? The offerings look quite good, I was just looking at it the other day . Hopefully you learned good lessons for the future regarding fulfillment, too, and maybe won't run into those particular issues again.

I always try to stay right on top of communication. It has something I have always strived for in my full time profession and in my sales I do now through eBay. I am hoping to take the next step into a bigger production volume and expanded sales opportunities. My biggest fear (and it isn't a bad thing) is that this wildly exceeds my expectations and I end up flooded with orders. As it is now I can handle the volume I am doing between what I buiild and what I outsource locally for production, but neither of us combined could handle really large volume. I have requests for quotes out to several businesses here in the States. I am trying to avoid Chinese companies as past experiences left a bad taste in my mouth with my dealings there.

Tressel wrote:
I am at the very early stages of this so no website yet I'm afraid. For the first attempt I am just doing a small offering of 15mm terrain. If it is successful I do intend to expand into some 25-28mm pieces as well. Here are a few examples of the pieces I have made so far plus a few that are in the works.

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=126&aff=52&aft=560593&afv=topic

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=126&aff=52&aft=560926&afv=topic

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=126&aff=52&aft=560925&afv=topic

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=126&aff=52&aft=560823&afv=topic

I also have some other items that I have been making that are not resin. There are a lot more available. Just search by other auctions.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131101973233?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141161381816?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141164951796?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131062485958?ssPageName=STRK:MESOX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1561.l2649

Just some constructive criticism.
First; all your links to Flames of War require an account to view. For a prospective customer that is very off putting to have to register on a 3rd party website to see what is on offer. Try uploading images to imageshack/photobucket/etc. or the Dakka Gallery

Second; your Ebay links. The objective markers are not great quality. They are very pixelated, so it looks like an image has been magnified past its resolution. This is turn makes it look very amateur and not something that people are likely to pay for if they can produce a similar result at home cheaper, and without the wait. Find better quality images, or design your own. $6 for a pixelated image with felt backing does not strike me as being great value. The actual terrain doesn't look bad, but it does not showcase what you are actually producing.

This whole thing originally started off with me getting out of Flames of War due to a lack of free time between family obligations and work. I sold off the three armies I had and the accessories and terrain. All of a sudden I started getting messages asking if I had more of the terrain and objectives. So I worked up a few and they sold very quickly. Then there were more messages. Then requests for custom orders. it kind of snowballed from there. These were just for examples in reference to Carlos13's question about pictures. If it gets to the point where I decide to do this as a project I will have a website for all of the pieces to viewed on. I am at work now, but I will see if I can upload some pics here as well so you do not have to register at FoW.

The objectives are not what I will be producing through the kickstarter. it is just something I have been selling on eBay and one of the items I sell in addition to terrain. I included those pics just to show some of the variety of items I have done so far. The pixelation on the objectives hasn't bothered anyone yet. I have sold around 100+ sets so far. 5 sets just sold 2 days ago. Although this may be worth looking into at a later time for another kickstarter and professionally printed. You have to keep in mind everything I have made and sold so far has been scratch builds put together out of my basement. I am just now exploring options for moving this into a higher quality and more professional product, but it takes a hell of a lot of money. I just got a quote from a company to produce 15mm buildings for me in plastic and just the CAD work was $12,000 just to get it to production. I haven't even gotten the quote yet for what my actual production costs will be.

Feedback is definitely appreciated. I only want to produce high quality items, but I want to do it at an affordable price. No one wants to spend $1000 on terrain so they can play a game that cost them $300 for the army. So far the stuff I have done has been at least 30% less than similar items offered by Battlefront which is about where I hope to sell at on all my items. I am just trying to give back to the gaming community for all the fun I have had these last 25 years. If I can make a few bucks along the way it doesn't hurt my feelings either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dreadclaw69 here are some of the pieces I have had cast in resin.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/574820.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/575007.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/575011.page

Hope this helps.

@RiTides, I did indeed, just about sold out of the first production run now as well, but need to get some new masters printed - partly the result of the issues I mentioned.

Yeah, the fulfilment isues I ran into, or rather the delays from the original schedule were a result of issues with the caster and casting, all of which was contracted out. We ran some months behind by the end, though everyone did get everything they asked for. That said, the buck for those delay does stop with me, so I'm certainly not shifting blame - there were a number of things I could have done to improve how things went from the outset.

I'll definitely do another in the future, and will be able to avoid those mistakes now.

@Tresel, well the larger volumes are definitely worth preparing for, without wanting to sound negative it is possible you won't end up having to deal with them, but if your not prepared to deal with them then it could lead to problems down the line. I'd suggest assuming that it exceeds all expectations, which it sounds like your doing, and account for that not just in terms of getting the appropriate production quotes in, but also in specifying the fulfilment time scales.

Good luck!

Thanks Col.Gravis. I am trying to be as realistic with my expectation as I can be. Like I said above make a few bucks is always nice, but I want my customer's expectations to be exceeded and not just met.

Tressel wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dreadclaw69 here are some of the pieces I have had cast in resin.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/574820.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/575007.page

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/575011.page

Hope this helps.

Those samples showcase your work so much better, and give a better indication as to what you can deliver to your customers.

 Col.Gravis wrote:
@RiTides, I did indeed, just about sold out of the first production run now as well, but need to get some new masters printed - partly the result of the issues I mentioned.

Glad you mentioned this, and I just snapped up a few of the last remaining kits that I had been eyeing for a while as a result. Thanks for the heads up

So far I have 7 or 8 different pieces I have already in production and/or getting ready to go to production. Is this too many to put toward a kickstarter or should I just focus on 2 or 3 for the initial start up and if successful then use the others for a second round of kickstarter projects?

I'd personally keep the number of products included low, at least for your initial foray into Kickstarter. That's not to say that having more doesn't work though, but it does make things more complicated and ads a greater potential for things to go wrong.

I was thinking along the same lines for simplicity. Would it be worth mentioning the other pieces in the kickstarter to show additional product in the future or would that just muddy the waters?

After some delays due to life issues I am finally back at working on this. I think I may have found a company that can handle the sculpting for me. I am waiting on a quote now. If anyone has any other tips that will help make this run smoothly they are of course greatly appreciated..

I never made a kickstarter but you need 3 main things.


1. You Need A KICK ASS VIDEO. Telling everyone who you are, how long your doing this. With strong Pathos, Ethos and Logos. Display your art in the video and why you are doing this.

2. You need Powerful rewards for people who invest in your idea. Cool rewards that will MAKE people want to give you as much money as possible. The higher the amount spent, the more great their reward must be. Also, do not forget a $1.00 option with no reward.

3. You need good communication between people and you need to be able to keep deadlines and communicate when those deadlines are being deplayed.

I have purchased from one kickstarter.

It was Bob olleys Squats/Scrunts.

I did it because he showed clearly what was on offer and what they would look like. I found many kickstarters long and confusing to even bother reading fully.

So my advice is simple as a hard to catch buyer. Keep it simple, clear and make sure you showcase exactly what is on offer.

Added bonus for being constantly friendly with potential buyers. The bob olley guy for example, actually made pith helmets because people asked him. His team constantly answered questions, where up front and honest, provided updates on everything and always replied to messages.

So hopefully that helps. It was also awesome getting the models on time. So if you dont screw up the first time (badly that is) then you may very well set yourself up for more business later.