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I've practically finished my blood angels, so I'm looking into a new army, more for collecting and painting. So apart from marine armies, what's the best value for money wise? In terms firmly of the number of models and how you enjoyed painting them and secondly in what's useful in the box if I were to then start them as an army?

Battleforces themselves are being phased out now, and replaced by 'mega-forces' with a higher cost but better savings overall. The only non-SM ones around at the moment are Eldar Ghost warriors (15 wraithblades/guard, 2 wraithlords, 1 wraithknight) which is a good deal but not many models (and I've no idea if it's any good for starting an army) or the Nids swarm set with a Carnifex and around 100ish little bugs, which, when added to a Hive Tyrant makes a good core for a nids army. Both would be very different both painting and playing-wise to Marines.

Of the non-SM battleforces still available, DE doesn't have a bad model in the box, Orks is a bit rubbish, Tau are all right if you like the aesthetic and IG aren't that good unless you buy multiples.

So I'd go with Nid swarm or DE battleforce depending on budget.

I don't like the new boxs . they cost a lot of cash and technicly are a saving, but what does an eldar player suppose to do with wraith lords , prox them as warwalkers ? differnt size and arment . Same with the nid box if it had more guants or gargoyls instead of the stealers , it would be very nice .

Makumba wrote:
I don't like the new boxs . they cost a lot of cash and technicly are a saving, but what does an eldar player suppose to do with wraith lords , prox them as warwalkers ? differnt size and arment . Same with the nid box if it had more guants or gargoyls instead of the stealers , it would be very nice .

The Tau and Eldar ones were not intended to be "megaforces". They were released in conjunction with dataslates.

As of right now the only armies which have these new style boxes are Space Marines(the "Strikeforce"), Dark Elves("Warhost of Naggaroth"), and Tyranids("Swarm"). Dwarfs should be getting a boxed set with a similarly fancy name(I'm going to guess "Hearthguard") in the same price range with new plastic stuff.

Makumba wrote:
I don't like the new boxs . they cost a lot of cash and technicly are a saving, but what does an eldar player suppose to do with wraith lords , prox them as warwalkers ? differnt size and arment . Same with the nid box if it had more guants or gargoyls instead of the stealers , it would be very nice .

Er, use them as wraithlords and 'stealers respectively? Just because they aren't the best choice, doesn't mean they can't and won't be used. I imagine the majority of players starting an army aren't looking for ultra-competitive or optimised lists.

Stealers are not only not the best choice , but not the second or third or fourth or even fifth choice . And WL plain suck , two cost like the WK , but they neither get the str 10 cannon nor the jump jets . its like spliting a WK in half and getting weaker weapons for more points.

The ghost warriors box just needs a spiritseer and you've got a decent army, throw in a couple of wave serpents and you've got a solid force. (Need the iyanden supplement)

On topic, value is really dependent on what you want to do, I'd never recommend starting an army just because it's the best value box (in which case it's dark vengeance every time). The battleforce all have similar savings over buying the kits individually

In my experience the 'horde' style army boxes have less useless stuff (orks- boys, trucks, bikes. Guard- men, men, men. Nids- swarms of anything) , whereas the more elite boxes seem to have something that isn't as popular for gaming (ie eldar after swapping out a war walker for a viper)

Dont forget other players. If you have another eldar player in your area, they might want to chip in for a wraithlord out of the set. the same also goes for the other boxes as well. Say you want space wolves but dont like scouts and want to use razorbacks instead of pods, go with a blood angels player and swap out. There are many options if you use your imagination. Heck, looking at the vanguard type apoc set with loads of genestealers, if a local player wanted some of them and the "biggies", I'd chip in for a set of the stealers out of it.

Makumba wrote:
Stealers are not only not the best choice , but not the second or third or fourth or even fifth choice . And WL plain suck , two cost like the WK , but they neither get the str 10 cannon nor the jump jets . its like spliting a WK in half and getting weaker weapons for more points.

Is that going to matter to somebody who is starting a new army? Although as an aside I think that indicates part of the issue with 40k; every choice should be balanced so you aren't punished, for example, by thinking that WLs look awesome and wanting to use them.

Personally I only have Marines. I also dont have the force I want yet.

That aside. I think the 'Nid box would be kinda cool. You can use the big bug as an HQ (old one eye?) and the rest for your other goodies. Granted, not the most competitive army, but heck it might be fun to go from small armies of Marines to LOTS of little bugs.

I ordered te tyranid swarm this morning and it should be at my door this week. Too good of a deal to pass up. Especially considering the additional 20% off thewarstore gives. over $110 savings.
My plan is to use it as the base start ing block of building a bug army which I know wil take a long while.
Even though i wont be able to use the models as an effective army, IDO plan to use them in athemed campaign aonst my buddies where the players fight across a world infested with bugs and either kill off each starting swarm or wrest control of artifacts.. The models will get used either way.

Beard wrote:
I've practically finished my blood angels, so I'm looking into a new army, more for collecting and painting. So apart from marine armies, what's the best value for money wise? In terms firmly of the number of models and how you enjoyed painting them and secondly in what's useful in the box if I were to then start them as an army?

Personally, I'd say the Orks.. You get 3 bikes which make for a great fast attack option. Then with the boyz and trukk you get some nice mob action going.. Not the best point value wise.. But I personally had a lot of fun painting them and everything you get in it has very high usage in games.

 Paradigm wrote:
Battleforces themselves are being phased out now, and replaced by 'mega-forces' with a higher cost but better savings overall. The only non-SM ones around at the moment are Eldar Ghost warriors (15 wraithblades/guard, 2 wraithlords, 1 wraithknight) which is a good deal but not many models (and I've no idea if it's any good for starting an army)

It is if you are using that supplement. If you are just using the standard Eldar Codex, it's not that useful since you still have to buy troops and an HQ to make it legal. Still, it does give out a lot of points.

The Dark Eldar ones are great! You can easily use every model you get out of them. Hell, you could pick up five or six and still not regret it.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Battleforces themselves are being phased out now, and replaced by 'mega-forces' with a higher cost but better savings overall. The only non-SM ones around at the moment are Eldar Ghost warriors (15 wraithblades/guard, 2 wraithlords, 1 wraithknight) which is a good deal but not many models (and I've no idea if it's any good for starting an army)

It is if you are using that supplement. If you are just using the standard Eldar Codex, it's not that useful since you still have to buy troops and an HQ to make it legal. Still, it does give out a lot of points.

Or buy a Spiritseer and call it a day.

@Makumba: Wraithlord does not suck. It's a T8 dual-HW platform with up to 4 attacks at S9 AP2 master-crafted.
Oh, and what to do with those four attacks? Challenge someone, he's a character. Many armies would kill for a guy like that.

To the OP:
Overall, I think Ork box is nice, altough I'm not sure about using the Trukks.

Eldar box has Standard troop choices and the best transport in the game. Buy another five DA, secon War Walker and a Farseer and you have an army.

What's great about the Tau box is that it's legal without buying anything else. Most of the choices there are good and it sums up to somewhat 500 points.

As mentioned before, the DE box has no bad unit as far as I know.

 soomemafia wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Battleforces themselves are being phased out now, and replaced by 'mega-forces' with a higher cost but better savings overall. The only non-SM ones around at the moment are Eldar Ghost warriors (15 wraithblades/guard, 2 wraithlords, 1 wraithknight) which is a good deal but not many models (and I've no idea if it's any good for starting an army)

It is if you are using that supplement. If you are just using the standard Eldar Codex, it's not that useful since you still have to buy troops and an HQ to make it legal. Still, it does give out a lot of points.

Or buy a Spiritseer and call it a day.

Isn't the spiritseer option only in that Illyaden supplement?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 soomemafia wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Battleforces themselves are being phased out now, and replaced by 'mega-forces' with a higher cost but better savings overall. The only non-SM ones around at the moment are Eldar Ghost warriors (15 wraithblades/guard, 2 wraithlords, 1 wraithknight) which is a good deal but not many models (and I've no idea if it's any good for starting an army)

It is if you are using that supplement. If you are just using the standard Eldar Codex, it's not that useful since you still have to buy troops and an HQ to make it legal. Still, it does give out a lot of points.

Or buy a Spiritseer and call it a day.

Isn't the spiritseer option only in that Illyaden supplement?

Actually, no. In codex: Eldar it's mentioned that Spiritseer makes Wraithguard and Wraithblades troops.
And boy, do I like that!

 soomemafia wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 soomemafia wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:
Battleforces themselves are being phased out now, and replaced by 'mega-forces' with a higher cost but better savings overall. The only non-SM ones around at the moment are Eldar Ghost warriors (15 wraithblades/guard, 2 wraithlords, 1 wraithknight) which is a good deal but not many models (and I've no idea if it's any good for starting an army)

It is if you are using that supplement. If you are just using the standard Eldar Codex, it's not that useful since you still have to buy troops and an HQ to make it legal. Still, it does give out a lot of points.

Or buy a Spiritseer and call it a day.

Isn't the spiritseer option only in that Illyaden supplement?

Actually, no. In codex: Eldar it's mentioned that Spiritseer makes Wraithguard and Wraithblades troops.
And boy, do I like that!

Huh, ok, that's pretty groovy.

What does the supplement do then? I thought it's gimmick was that it made wraithguard troops?

WayneTheGame wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Stealers are not only not the best choice , but not the second or third or fourth or even fifth choice . And WL plain suck , two cost like the WK , but they neither get the str 10 cannon nor the jump jets . its like spliting a WK in half and getting weaker weapons for more points.

Is that going to matter to somebody who is starting a new army? Although as an aside I think that indicates part of the issue with 40k; every choice should be balanced so you aren't punished, for example, by thinking that WLs look awesome and wanting to use them.

You want to tell me that where you live people buy random models , then check if they have a legal army or something? Because here people buy the 1500pts they need to play and that is it , they buy more points if they plan to play 1500-1999 . The game costs ton of cash even , if someone buys only the models he needs , buying models that you may want to try out or that suck , but you like how they look would rise the cost of starting astronomicly. Not to mention it would be stupid , as all the models that someone buys for the looks would just be left in the box and never played.

Wraithlord does not suck. It's a T8 dual-HW platform with up to 4 attacks at S9 AP2 master-crafted.
Oh, and what to do with those four attacks? Challenge someone, he's a character. Many armies would kill for a guy like that.

If it doesn't fly then it won't be doing much melee . The WK is a character too and there are other units in the WL slots , that work better .

What does the supplement do then? I thought it's gimmick was that it made wraithguard troops?

1-5 seers as one HQ, different relics , WK can be made the warlord of the army and probably some other stuff.

Makumba wrote:

Wraithlord does not suck. It's a T8 dual-HW platform with up to 4 attacks at S9 AP2 master-crafted.
Oh, and what to do with those four attacks? Challenge someone, he's a character. Many armies would kill for a guy like that.

If it doesn't fly then it won't be doing much melee . The WK is a character too and there are other units in the WL slots , that work better .

1) no, the Knight is not a character.
2) the comment about other choices in HS slot is completely irrelevant to the question if Wraithlord is a good unit.
It only answers to question is Wraithlord the best choice in Heavy Support slot of Eldar codex?

Makumba wrote:

You want to tell me that where you live people buy random models , then check if they have a legal army or something? Because here people buy the 1500pts they need to play and that is it , they buy more points if they plan to play 1500-1999 . The game costs ton of cash even , if someone buys only the models he needs , buying models that you may want to try out or that suck , but you like how they look would rise the cost of starting astronomicly. Not to mention it would be stupid , as all the models that someone buys for the looks would just be left in the box and never played.

You might live in an area that is different from others. Most players do indeed build up to the points they usually play. Then they buy other models and units to trade in and out or to experiment and often just for the coolness value. Thats why you see so many players talking about their 1850 point games alongside the 5,000 points worth of models they have for that army.

Makumba wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:

Makumba wrote:
Stealers are not only not the best choice , but not the second or third or fourth or even fifth choice . And WL plain suck , two cost like the WK , but they neither get the str 10 cannon nor the jump jets . its like spliting a WK in half and getting weaker weapons for more points.

Is that going to matter to somebody who is starting a new army? Although as an aside I think that indicates part of the issue with 40k; every choice should be balanced so you aren't punished, for example, by thinking that WLs look awesome and wanting to use them.

You want to tell me that where you live people buy random models , then check if they have a legal army or something? Because here people buy the 1500pts they need to play and that is it , they buy more points if they plan to play 1500-1999 . The game costs ton of cash even , if someone buys only the models he needs , buying models that you may want to try out or that suck , but you like how they look would rise the cost of starting astronomicly. Not to mention it would be stupid , as all the models that someone buys for the looks would just be left in the box and never played.

Not addressed to me specifically, but yes, people where I've played do usually buy models based on coolness. None of us really have set lists, we tend to play different points and lists every game, and build a collection that we can then make a list from.

Unless you intend to only play competitively, There's absolutely no requirements for lists whatsoever beyond the FOC. We don't 'need' any specific models, so we get the stuff we like and run with it. Nothing is so absolutely terrible that it makes a list unplayable. As for the comment about stuff being bought for looks and never being played, I've never encountered anyone to whom that would be an issue. Basically, we all hold the attitude that if we like it (for whatever reason) then we play it.

And for the record, it makes the game far more fun that it would be if we religiously subscribed to the 'must take the best' mindset.

picking up models I think are cool is the only thing that keeps me interested in painting. The CSM box is still around (at least in my area) its not so bad. Possessed are pretty bad but they're so varied that they are fun painting. Other than that you could do worse than the rest of the units. Its like buying all those units and getting the possessed for next to nothing.

Also with the CSM one, if you don't want possessed then just use the parts to chaos up some more marines. I only didn't mention it as the OP didn't want more marines.