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Ok I have seen a lot of people slagging off a deflier but I haven't seen why people do not like it.

I have to admit I like it and when I have used it, it only let me down once and that was due to the terminators running up its bum.

I normally use mine as a heavy weapons platform with a reaper on one side and a havoc on the other. I then give it a second and some warpfire gargoyles and if i have the spare points a second havoc.

Is it really as bad as people have hinted?

No.

They are good, but there are just so many other units that are better, they just lose out. Seems anymore, mostly good for making brass scorpians. lol

Not for the cost no.

If you take phlem bombardment you have a WYSIWYG demon soulgrinder model which is so beyond better and cheaper which you can ally in.

Simply put, it is as bad as people have hinted. That being said, I frakkin love Defilers and love bringing them to battles. Nothing says I love you like firing some ordinance at the enemy and then welcoming them to spider crabs of doom *snip snip stomp-slash*

They pay for a lot for very little. To start with, they are only front armour 12, side armour 12 and rear armor 10. This means they are actually rather capable of being glanced to death. They just don't have that much durability. Then comes the problem... What are they made for? 40k is very rarely about general purpose. Usually, it is best to specialize. But what is Deffie for? Close combat? Well it does have 2 power fists... starts with a flamer... can swap for an extra fist... can have a flail. It must be close combat oriented! Oh wait it has an ordinance blast meaning if you are CC you aren't blasting and when you aren't ordinancing those power fists and flamers are looking mighty worthless. Then you have the fact that as soon as ordinance is fired, everything else snapfires meaning blasts and templates can't be fired so only snapshots. But if you are firing those single guns then you aren't firing the ordinance. The biggest problem with deffy is he is trying to do everything and that is what hurts him (plus a point hike)

jakl277, are you always this useful or are you just an idiot? There are 2 questions asked, one in the title and one at the end of the post.

Evil INC, I thought that was the case, ah well. I might throw it about when I want a decoy as everyone seems to look at it and go erm thats my first target.

buddha, I don't think CSM can take a soulgrinder

Battle brothers. Accept the gribblies! Accept the call of chaos from within your heart mwaahahahahhahahaha

Startrotter, Oh didnt know I couldnt sling the middle gun and all the extras. Will have to go back to the book on that one and then turn the defiler into a terrain piece :(

You're paying a lot for things you won't use. The autocannons? Can't really use them if you're firing the big gun. The big gun you can use only if you don't use anything else. Etc.

If it could actually use everything it spends point for, sure, it could be great. But its too expensive for something that only uses half of what it has.

Its like buying a bunch of upgrades for your chaos lord that you'll never use. Sure, sounds cool, but those point are better spent on something else.

Ah it really does suck, shame you cannot swap that battle cannon out for something else.

And now to ask tod ays supper stupid question, where in the rule book does it say about that a walker which is a vehicle cannot fire all its weapons that turn/can only snapshot other weapons that turn? It keeps saying non-vehicle. But the defiler is listed as a vehicle in the CSM codex.

The most effective way i have seen them used was actually to sit back and shoot. Sitting behind decent cover, they get a 4+ cover save and they are a huge "get out of my yard" for anyone who actually wants to go in after it or go for linebreaker of other such thing.
again though...other stuff can serve more usefull roles for less points. There is a lot of competition for the heavy slots.

deathwolf669 wrote:
Ah it really does suck, shame you cannot swap that battle cannon out for something else.

And now to ask tod ays supper stupid question, where in the rule book does it say about that a walker which is a vehicle cannot fire all its weapons that turn/can only snapshot other weapons that turn? It keeps saying non-vehicle. But the defiler is listed as a vehicle in the CSM codex.

Ordinance. The large blast deffy fires is an ordinance. When firing such things, all other shots are snapshots. Since blast templates and flamer templates are incapable of being a snapshot, they cannot be fired. That's whats holding it back.

My mate uses his a charging battle tank whenever it actually hits the field.

don't buy upgrades. Move towards your opponent shelling them, until you are close enough to charge into something big and tank-shaped.

They are a lot tougher to kill than people say they are, and work best in pairs. Scary sight to have two of bearing down on your midfield fire support units

 EVIL INC wrote:
The most effective way i have seen them used was actually to sit back and shoot. Sitting behind decent cover, they get a 4+ cover save and they are a huge "get out of my yard" for anyone who actually wants to go in after it or go for linebreaker of other such thing.
again though...other stuff can serve more usefull roles for less points. There is a lot of competition for the heavy slots.

It is indeed heavily overpriced. Its actual firepower is low for its cost, and it is easy to kill off if the enemy actually wants to get to the area you are trying to deny with the hapless Defiler.

I do love the Defiler, but he is very very expensive for AV12.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 IHateNids wrote:
My mate uses his a charging battle tank whenever it actually hits the field.

don't buy upgrades. Move towards your opponent shelling them, until you are close enough to charge into something big and tank-shaped.

They are a lot tougher to kill than people say they are, and work best in pairs. Scary sight to have two of bearing down on your midfield fire support units

I use mine as a combination as well, of course, depending on what I face.

Striding forward while firing all the time, it is a big nasty distraction. Still, it remains overpriced for that duty. If you take the flail you can almost get 2 Maulerfiends for the cost, who do the whole distraction thing much better and are faster to boot, amply making up for the loss of battle cannon shots with room to spare.

While it is true that they cost a large amount of points, the Defilers have a 4th Hull Point, which is overestimated by a lot of people in describing their survivability.

Av12 + 4 HPs + IWND + Daemon.

Eh, IWND is irrelevant if it dies in one turn. Daemon is nice but it won't save it from Lootas or anything stronger killing it very dead.

It suffers from being a "jack of all trades" your paying for tools that dont work together all the time, if it was more of pay for chassis then add options from there it would be much more viable.