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So I need 2 competitive 50 point lists one for EHaley & one for Nemo 3.
I find that i have lots of trouble against trolls, menoth, & armor and im not sure what exactly to use to help with that in cygnar i havent really found there strength yet im pretty new and need to deal with these problems before a tournament next week.
Plz Help!

How new are you? How many 50 point games have you played? I can find the power builds, but an inexperienced player is still going to get slaughtered. Especially with Haley2. You cannot make mistakes with her.

Indeed,

Haley2 mandates you know about your opponents army and how to mess with it during the feat turn.


The best 50 point lists are ones you built and played yourself, a lot. Skill is what is important in this game and if you don't have practice with a list you're going to make mistakes with it.

Better to take a poorer list you are experienced with than a better list you have no experience with.


What specifically is causing your problems with Menoth, Trolls, and armor?

What have you been using?

Mechnomancer wrote:
How new are you? How many 50 point games have you played? I can find the power builds, but an inexperienced player is still going to get slaughtered. Especially with Haley2. You cannot make mistakes with her.

Pretty much this.

Also if you're having trouble with armor in Cygnar than my boy Siege Brisbane is something you might want to take a look at. I really hate Cygnar, and I still might want to play Siege. He has an out for line of sight, out for stealth, and out for high armor. It all compliments Cygnar's shooty gunline very well.

Ive played about 30 games so far 10 at 50 points with EHaley and Nemo
The problem im having with trolls and menoth are that everything seems too hard to kill no matter what i throw at it not so much menoth as trolls
My problem with armor is with jacks and beasts i cant seem to find a efficient way to kill them usually i lose a unit of stormblade and dont kill the jack/beast just recently i started putting forge guard in my lists and that helps alot

Got a list for us to look at?

As a Menoth player myself, Stormblades and Forge Guard are not something that makes me fear for my Jacks and I don't think its going to scare trolls either. An Ironclad on the other hand is something I need to deal with.

A hunter wouldn't be amiss either. Of course thats not going to help against Menoth(hymn of passage) but it will put a dent in a troll heavy each turn till it gets caught.

EHaley
Squire
Thorn
Storm Clad
Piper
ATGM+UA
Stormblade+UA
2 Stormblade stormgunners
full unit of forge guard
full unit of tempest blazers

Stormblades are one of those units that Cygnar players don't like a lot of the time. They're not exactly bad, it's just that you all boys in blue have so many great choices that they aren't as good by comparison.

Again I will preface this by saying I know practically 0 about Cygnar, but either of those casters would most likely love a Stormwall (grumble grumble best colossal in the game...)

Also this might be a controversial choice but I've always been curious about long gunners. Apparently they get combined ranged attack and 2 shots a turn, so you could do 2 full unit combined ranged attacks and really put some dents in armored targets.

Just hyping siege again here, but Explosivo can make a ranged attack a magic attack so you can get around that Menoth "no non-magic shooting" thing at least once a turn. It's no Optifex Directive (biased for Cyriss here since that's my one and only army. Not going to lie), but it's something to keep in mind.

Nemo3
Lancer
Stormclad
thunderhead
Stormblade+UA
Stormcaller x3
Stoem Tower x2
JR
Piper
PEiryss
Reinholdt

First question to ask is do you have access to Stormwall and/or a StormStrider

For the Haley list drop the forgeguard and the ATGM. Invest in Stormguard (Regular or Silverline), Aiyana and Holt and, a Stormblade Captain.
Place the guard in front of the blades. Use the piper to put +1 defence on them. Let them absorb the Alpha and use the blades to counter attack. Or, if you get to do the alpha, use Aiyana to either Kiss the target or make your blades magical. Then assault through the guard into your targets. 4 Assualting blades usually will make fast work of a heavy (especially at +2 damage).

My 2 cents.

Take haley and make here your anti horde/infantry list . You need to buy the stormwall , with cygnar the only casters that can run without him is ecain .
The second list should either be your anti Arm list or an assasination list . Take siege for anti arm and eCain/eStryker for assasination .
I would go with siege and haley
Take boomis with haley , because of dead eye and take swordknights or The new stormguard for the siege list as front line unit . IF you take guard for siege take the stormblade cpt and a full unit of stormblades with UA and 2 WA and rupert. There are nasty tricks to pull of with them assaulting and they hit hard , even if siege does not have snipe for them .

I would take gorman with ehaley for anti horde , specialy legion hate him , because of his immunity to fire and a lot of their shoting being fire . Ayana and Holt are tricky .I would run them in the anti armor list +2dmg on feat turns means that stuff will die , but then again even without the +2dmg most stuff dies on siege feat turn , so adding some umph or magic weapons to the haley list should not be overlooked.

Gunmages go in to the ehaley list , b13 in to siege .

The gobber speculator goes in to the siege list . both siege and ehaley should be runing rangers .

the rest is mostly local meta or taste thing IMO.

Disregard anything that people are telling you to buy.

There is nothing inherently wrong with any of your two lists, your problem is one of gameplay and tactics, not list building.

If you are having problems facing troll bricks you need to focus on taking out their support pieces (and the same goes for Menoth). That means Janissa and the Stone guys. Take them out by whatever means are necessary, even if that means making unfavourable trades in the process, flank with the Tempest Blazers to kill the stone bearers, sacrifice Thorn to pull Janissa out for the Gun Mages to kill if you have to!

If you can manage to do that you'll find that the rest of your army can take care of business without any problems.

I somewhat agree that your lists should be able to handle things.

However, I would not normally recommend forgegaurd and stormblades in the same list. They are both second wave hitters. I'd replace one with a more tarpitty unit like silverline, precursors or boomhowlers.

In the Haley list are you bonding the stormclad or thorn? I'd probably go with the stormclad, but thorn is interesting as well. Either of those should be able to deal with enemy warjacks. Thorn has more trouble with warbeasts since there is no cortex to fry.

Blazers should be great for taking out support. Even medium infantry with boxes will hurt from brutal damage.

I do agree with the person who said your lists should focus on different things. I recommend one list being a more balanced all-comers type list and then the other deal with bad matchups for the first one. Though an anti-armor and and anti-infantry list may work OK, too. But remember there are more issues than just armor and infantry. Stealth, incorporeal, etc.

I will second that Siege is a great toolbox that has a lot of answers to things our other casters may not.

For the record I am not saying that the OP should be buying the units I recommend. I am just giving my opinion as to what he should do to modify his list. If he doesn't want to spend any money then he should seek alternative help via stating what he does have and advise can be given with that limitation in mind.
To me, when someone asks for open ended help then he has the means to implement the advice either through already having the figures, being willing to purchase them or, being able to borrow them.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
For the record I am not saying that the OP should be buying the units I recommend. I am just giving my opinion as to what he should do to modify his list. If he doesn't want to spend any money then he should seek alternative help via stating what he does have and advise can be given with that limitation in mind.
To me, when someone asks for open ended help then he has the means to implement the advice either through already having the figures, being willing to purchase them or, being able to borrow them.

I think that is a safe assumption. If people have limits on what they can or cannot add then they should state so.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
For the record I am not saying that the OP should be buying the units I recommend. I am just giving my opinion as to what he should do to modify his list. If he doesn't want to spend any money then he should seek alternative help via stating what he does have and advise can be given with that limitation in mind.
To me, when someone asks for open ended help then he has the means to implement the advice either through already having the figures, being willing to purchase them or, being able to borrow them.

And that is what fundamentally wrong with most of the WMH "advice" that people get on internet forums. This game isn't about list building, its about how you use the list you have. Sure, there are some fundamentals that should always be observed when building an army and there are some staples in each faction that people should have because they are such defining pieces on how the faction plays, but reading time and again such nonsense as "every caster in Cygnar needs a Stormwall" and "get a tarpit unit in eHaley" gets really old really fast and I'll bet that the OP will loose just as much with these changes has he did before, because he can't understand the reason why he is loosing...

Ok, rant is over... for now!

List building is important. A lack of synergy or balance will make the game much tougher. The thing to remember is list building for warmachine is much different than 40K where you pretty much take your FOC of the best units, then start taking the 2nd best, etc.

I do agree that people should be offering advice on why they recommend the changes.

But the OP is asking about 2 50 point lists for a tourney. So I (and probably others) am assuming he has at least the basics down and is working on improving his list and army. So just saying, "play what you got" isn't really the best answer either. That assumption doesn't really help the OP, either. It is worth mentioning, but if he is here asking for list help I am assuming he has played it and isn't happy with it.

Mordekiem wrote:
List building is important. A lack of synergy or balance will make the game much tougher. The thing to remember is list building for warmachine is much different than 40K where you pretty much take your FOC of the best units, then start taking the 2nd best, etc.

I do agree that people should be offering advice on why they recommend the changes.

But the OP is asking about 2 50 point lists for a tourney. So I (and probably others) am assuming he has at least the basics down and is working on improving his list and army. So just saying, "play what you got" isn't really the best answer either. That assumption doesn't really help the OP, either. It is worth mentioning, but if he is here asking for list help I am assuming he has played it and isn't happy with it.

Where have I just said "play what you got" without any more advice? In fact, here is what I said:

PhantomViper wrote:

If you are having problems facing troll bricks you need to focus on taking out their support pieces (and the same goes for Menoth). That means Janissa and the Stone guys. Take them out by whatever means are necessary, even if that means making unfavourable trades in the process, flank with the Tempest Blazers to kill the stone bearers, sacrifice Thorn to pull Janissa out for the Gun Mages to kill if you have to!

If you can manage to do that you'll find that the rest of your army can take care of business without any problems.

Also, the OP stated several times that he doesn't have that much experience with the game:

 AngelHunter122 wrote:
im not sure what exactly to use to help with that in cygnar i havent really found there strength yet im pretty new and need to deal with these problems before a tournament next week.
Plz Help!

 AngelHunter122 wrote:

Ive played about 30 games so far 10 at 50 points with EHaley and Nemo

The fact of the matter is that the OP doesn't have that much experience with the game, unless he is a real prodigy, with 30 total games under his belt he really shouldn't be playing in 50 pt tournaments (with any hope of winning at any rate). Telling him to "buy more stuff" isn't going to help him in any way and in fact is much more prejudicial to his learning process than just saying "play what you've got for a few more games until you get the hang of it".

Playing in tournaments can actually help newbies. Its a good way to learn stuff. Trial by fire and all.

I guess it depends on the tournament. The tourneys around here tend to be pretty laid back since it's just the regular players getting together.

I normally love running Stormblades with eHaley, but I would drop them if your other caster is Nemo3. While unlikely, an over-reliance on electric damage can cause you major headaches. I would keep the stormclad, he remains a good heavy hitter.

With those free points from dropping the stormblades, get a jamming unit. There are many, depending on what you have. Boomhowlers, Steelhead Halberdiers, even Precursor Knights could work. Use the forgeguard as your second wave, and don't be afraid to charge them at Jacks.