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Hey guys, I'm building my DE force slowly and this Friday will be my first purchase. I'm a long time veteran 40k Daemon player, but I'm wanting a second army as well. So here is what I'm purchasing this Friday and it will make my 500 point list. I plan on expanding the army 500 points every two weeks. I'll be playing with my friend and since my daemon army is my tourney army, I don't need this list to be super competitive... Here's what I got so far! :

HQ:

Archon, Venom Blade, ghostplate armor (Will be riding in the raider with the wyches)


Troops:

9 Wyches w/ haywire grenades; Raider, nightshields

5 Kabalite Warriors, blaster; Venom, dual splinter cannons

5 Kabalite warriors, blaster; Venom, dual splinter cannons

Transports: (all accounted for above)

Raider, nightshields

Venom, Dual Splinter Cannons

Venom, Dual splinter Cannons

Looks solid. At this points level, your probably better off with a succbus than an archon. Ghostplate won't save you from anything big and nasty, or much small arms fire. The point of ghostplate is to be an affordable backup to the shadowfield, which is basically required on any con.A succbus with a venom blade has a better combat statline, and the 4++ in assault matters more than the 4+/6++. She also comes with drugs standard, which is usually helpful. The points you net in savings could buy haywire grenades for the succbus, or some other random raider upgrade of your choice.

Since your purchasing models, feel free to get an archon/succbus and just use it as the other, as needed. Most people won't notice/care.

 Dr. Serling wrote:
Looks solid. At this points level, your probably better off with a succbus than an archon. Ghostplate won't save you from anything big and nasty, or much small arms fire. The point of ghostplate is to be an affordable backup to the shadowfield, which is basically required on any con.

A succbus with a venom blade has a better combat statline, and the 4++ in assault matters more than the 4+/6++. She also comes with drugs standard.

Since your purchasing models, feel free to get an archon/succbus and just use it as the other, as needed. Most people won't notice/care.

Wow, this is excellent advice! Thanks so much!!!

I've got two lists to choose from now. Help me pick!!! This will affect my purchase Friday.

Here's my updated list.


HQ:
Succubus, venom blade (with wyches in raider)


Troops:

9 wyches w/ haywire grenades; Raider,

5 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster; Venom w/ dual splinter cannons, nightshields

5 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster; Venom w/ dual splinter cannons, nightshields


Transports: (accounted for above)

Venom w/ dual splinter cannons, nightshields
Venom w/ dual splinter cannons, nightshields
Raider


List 2:

HQ:

Archon, shadoworb (2++ thingy), ghostplate, drugs, venomblade (inside raider with warriors)


Troops:

9 Warriors 1 w/ blaster; Raider, flickerfield, nightshields
10 Warriors 1 w/ blaster, splinter cannon; Raider, flickerfield, nightshields

Transports: (accounted for above)

Raider, flickerfield, nightshields
Raider, flickerfield, nightshields

The first list, hands down.
You're better off taking the night shields off the venoms and adding the flickerfield/nightshield to the succubus' raider. That raider is a higher priority target but yet has no toys/defense.

My personal goal with the DE is to make everything about an equal priority for my opponent to "encourage" him/her to split fire among my force.
There's no really good way to stop an opponent from downing just about anything in the DE army, so any decent opponent is going to strike down the super dangerous targets first (with almost guaranteed success). For example: Tricked out archon and a full squad of incubi in a raider. I see very few scenarios where this raider survives turn 1 unless there is night fight (maybe). With that in mind, I prefer to have an equal priority army. Means that no one (or two) raider going down cripples my plan.

Ok great, thanks for the insight.

adding your first list up you end up a little over pointed at 508pts all together, to rectify this i would suggest leaving out nightshields and adding a wych weapon. Or on a separate note i could also suggest swapping out the wyches entirely for 3 Grotesques, you are spending 108pts on your wyches when for 105pts you get 3 grots, same amount of wounds at a higher T and S with a comparable invul (5+ FnP is similar and can be taken at range) with admittedly less attacks but have a much easier time wounding. They also benifit greatly from the succubus as they can use her I for sweeping running (Imagine Grots doing leaping barrle rolls at I 8!) as well as handle MEQ's better. Wyches hit Tanks harder but thats if they make combat, for Grots it's a dead tank unless it has AV 12 rear armour when you factor in giving the Suc haywire for an almost assured glance at range 8''. Also, quite simply, it's really disheartening when your ride gets blown up and you lose 2/3 of your wyches and if they make combat with most things it is 5's to wound. Wyches are a bad combat unit, great AT, but bad combat. Grots can survive the ride there much better (Majority T) and generally hit harder, just something to think about because at high pts you can add more scoring units.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
adding your first list up you end up a little over pointed at 508pts all together, to rectify this i would suggest leaving out nightshields and adding a wych weapon. Or on a separate note i could also suggest swapping out the wyches entirely for 3 Grotesques, you are spending 108pts on your wyches when for 105pts you get 3 grots, same amount of wounds at a higher T and S with a comparable invul (5+ FnP is similar and can be taken at range) with admittedly less attacks but have a much easier time wounding. They also benifit greatly from the succubus as they can use her I for sweeping running (Imagine Grots doing leaping barrle rolls at I 8!) as well as handle MEQ's better. Wyches hit Tanks harder but thats if they make combat, for Grots it's a dead tank unless it has AV 12 rear armour when you factor in giving the Suc haywire for an almost assured glance at range 8''. Also, quite simply, it's really disheartening when your ride gets blown up and you lose 2/3 of your wyches and if they make combat with most things it is 5's to wound. Wyches are a bad combat unit, great AT, but bad combat. Grots can survive the ride there much better (Majority T) and generally hit harder, just something to think about because at high pts you can add more scoring units.

Aren't the wych weapons like the lashes 10pts per model? Also, I'm building off this list. I have a 1500 - 2000 point list in mind that involves wyches but doesn't involve grotesques...

I would usually suggest tat an evolving list is better, start at 500 then add 500 based on your experiences with your first 500, if you have the final list in mind for an army your totally new with you have a better understanding then most about your new army. Having started with a very similar list myself (Bought the battleforce, so I had less venoms and more reavers) I simply found that using wyches as a combat unit will disappoint you, greatly. They are at best a tarpit for elite units, they utterly lack killing power without the optimum drug rolls. Hitting a Marine on 4's then wounding on 5's is bad when you only have a mediocre amount of attacks while they hit on 4's and wound on 3's. That's assuming you make combat with the save that fancy brazier grants you against any explosion results (which does happen...frequently). Strength 4 explosions killed wyches, 2/3of your unit very likely will die, another 1/2 models to overwatch, is what you have left enough to kill even a range unit, if so, after those casualties in that combat, could they take on a second unit with overwatch? I am guessing no.

Grots on the other hand take very little damage from explosions, are more reliable (less reliant on drug rolls) in combat and there killing potential is based on models not wounds, meaning with fancy positioning you an have all 3 on 1 wound and still do the same damage as all 3 on 3 wounds, wyches simply can't do that. Noting this is only me defending a really underestimated unit over a really over estimated unit, this would be my suggested list.

Succubus w/ V.blade and Haywire grenades. 75pts

3 grotesques / Liquefier. Raider. 175pts

5 warriors with blaster in venom with double cannons. 125pts

5 warriors with blaster in venom with double cannons. 125pts

Total. 500pts. build into 750pts force with Ravager and another warrior venom and go from there.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
I would usually suggest tat an evolving list is better, start at 500 then add 500 based on your experiences with your first 500, if you have the final list in mind for an army your totally new with you have a better understanding then most about your new army. Having started with a very similar list myself (Bought the battleforce, so I had less venoms and more reavers) I simply found that using wyches as a combat unit will disappoint you, greatly. They are at best a tarpit for elite units, they utterly lack killing power without the optimum drug rolls. Hitting a Marine on 4's then wounding on 5's is bad when you only have a mediocre amount of attacks while they hit on 4's and wound on 3's. That's assuming you make combat with the save that fancy brazier grants you against any explosion results (which does happen...frequently). Strength 4 explosions killed wyches, 2/3of your unit very likely will die, another 1/2 models to overwatch, is what you have left enough to kill even a range unit, if so, after those casualties in that combat, could they take on a second unit with overwatch? I am guessing no.

Grots on the other hand take very little damage from explosions, are more reliable (less reliant on drug rolls) in combat and there killing potential is based on models not wounds, meaning with fancy positioning you an have all 3 on 1 wound and still do the same damage as all 3 on 3 wounds, wyches simply can't do that. Noting this is only me defending a really underestimated unit over a really over estimated unit, this would be my suggested list.

Succubus w/ V.blade and Haywire grenades. 75pts

3 grotesques / Liquefier. Raider. 175pts

5 warriors with blaster in venom with double cannons. 125pts

5 warriors with blaster in venom with double cannons. 125pts

Total. 500pts. build into 750pts force with Ravager and another warrior venom and go from there.

I've played against DE quite a bit. And I'm not new to 40k or the tourney scene. That's how I have a final list in mind. I will take what you've said however into consideration. My final list at 1850 is going to look something like this, feel free to give me your input:


Vect's Black Heart Kabal:

HQ:

Vect (In the raider with the witches)


Troops:

9 Wyches w/ Haywires, 1 Shardnet, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Shock Prow

10 Warriors w/ Blaster, Splinter Cannon; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Splinter Racks

10 Warriors w/ Blaster, Splinter Cannon; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Splinter Racks

10 Warriors w/ Blaster, Splinter Cannon; Raider w/ Flickerfields, Splinter Racks

5 Kabalite warriors ; Venom Dual splinter cannons

5 Kabalite Warriors ; Venom Dual Splinter cannons

Elites

3 Trueborn, 2 splinter cannons; Venom dual splinter cannons
3 Trueborn 2 splinter cannons; Venom dual splinter cannons


Dedicated transports (all accounted for above)

4 Venom
4 Raiders


Heavy Support:
Ravager, Triple Dark Lance
Ravager, Triple Dark Lance
Ravager, Triple Dark Lance

Great list, lots of AI dakka from all those splinters and enough AT to see you through the day. Only suggestions I could possibly make is swapping Wyches for Grots for reasons already mentioned (More so infact, because every strength 6 weapon they have will be aimed at this unit, actually having a save might be handy in case you need to footslog it as well as giving Vect FnP off the bat) as well as replacing flickerfields for nightshields. They synargise much better with Spinter racks allowing you to hover at 24'' and shoot, kill a few models and mean most normal infantry will be out of range for next turn, while flickerfields is mitigated by Jink unless you play against an aweful lot of tau (in which case your screwed anyhow ) because 75% of the time you go first.

After that it just becomes personal taste, for example I wouldn't say the agoniser on the wyches was necessary, as Vect by himself statistically kills about 5 3+ guys a turn so maybe a V.blde might be more helpful for piling on ounds against 2+'s. Or I don't like blasters on splinter boats because you are paying for the splinters and it's range also puts issues on the whole hover at 24'' thing, I much prefer blasters in Venoms. But everyone you ask will have different opinions on these, so good luck and welcome to the army!

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Great list, lots of AI dakka from all those splinters and enough AT to see you through the day. Only suggestions I could possibly make is swapping Wyches for Grots for reasons already mentioned (More so infact, because every strength 6 weapon they have will be aimed at this unit, actually having a save might be handy in case you need to footslog it as well as giving Vect FnP off the bat) as well as replacing flickerfields for nightshields. They synargise much better with Spinter racks allowing you to hover at 24'' and shoot, kill a few models and mean most normal infantry will be out of range for next turn, while flickerfields is mitigated by Jink unless you play against an aweful lot of tau (in which case your screwed anyhow ) because 75% of the time you go first.

After that it just becomes personal taste, for example I wouldn't say the agoniser on the wyches was necessary, as Vect by himself statistically kills about 5 3+ guys a turn so maybe a V.blde might be more helpful for piling on ounds against 2+'s. Or I don't like blasters on splinter boats because you are paying for the splinters and it's range also puts issues on the whole hover at 24'' thing, I much prefer blasters in Venoms. But everyone you ask will have different opinions on these, so good luck and welcome to the army!

This is all great info. Thanks so much for all the input, I appreciate it. I'm stoked to be playing Dark Eldar. Amazing models, awesome fluff, and let's be honest is there any place cooler than commaragh?