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 UlrikDecado wrote:


Sorry, it would end like this. "Hey, some new magical gimmick from Empire/ Dwarfs/ Tzeentch/ Druchii.." - take it down with our fethton of antiair and lets continue...oh, what a nice piece of armor, lets put it on flagpole, dont scrub those remains

What kind of anti-air are you going to shoot at a Thunderhawk or, even more hilariously, a Drop Pod?

Seriously, Drop Pod in, kill the leaders of various factions before they know they're in trouble, extract with Thunderhawk. Rinse and repeat. They never have to fight the Empire, Bretonnia, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Kislev etc. The Daemons will prove problematic, as will the Orks and Lizardmen (due to Slann being prophetic), but everyone else can be dealt with in a surgical manner, the sort of combat Astartes are trained for. Even the High Elves, with Dragons and Magic, will be helpless since they don't know that they're under attack before the Drop Pods and Thunderhawks arrive in the middle of the Phoenix King's court to murder the everliving crap out of everyone important.

As for cities with 200k+ inhabitants, I imagine that incendiary bombs dropped from the Thunderhawks could set fire to them rather easily. Sure, there'd be survivors, but it'll take ages to rebuild, which means the Astartes can go deal with something else.

Mobility wins wars.

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

That it is, but it is still discussed by the characters there. Given how strategically competent said characters are, you'd think they know what they are talking about.

Chapter 3, page 40.

Sorry, I'm sure you're making perfect sense from your side, but seeing as I haven't read Know No Fear and don't have a copy I really can't comment one way or the other. What I can say, however, is that GW and 40K fluff in general is well known to be woefully inadequate at scaling correctly, particularly when it comes to the logistics of warfare... things like force size, campaign times, etc. Therefore if in a BL novel a single company of a hundred Marines invades and pacifies an entire planet, then it is no less a ridiculous or unlikely event than the hypothetical one posed in this topic.

 UlrikDecado wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:

UlrikDecado wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:
Nonsense.
Settlements in the ancient era on earth had only a few thousand people per city. Fantasy settings aren't different.

There aren't millions of living/undead creatures and surely pacification =/= kill em all.

Ahem...by ancient era you mean medieval? Like...WHFB?

WHFB has a lot of collected stuff, like Egyptians ( tomb kings ) Fantasy ( elves and orcs and dwarfs ) , Bretonnia ( medieval ) , Empire ( 1400-1600 ), etc.

Yeah. And main part is Empire, Bretons, Kislev, heck, even those Elves are medieval. If you say "in the ancient era on earth had only a few thousand people per city" in this context, its...simply wrong. Bigger medieval cities had from 40 thousand to 200 thousand people. For the Egyptian metropolis, Alexandria had from 300 thousand to even one million with slaves accounted. And of course, like you said, there are orcs and skaven, not exactly known for low numbers of fighting force.

Alexandria 400AD ca 80000 - 90000 ( McEvedy ).
Cordoba 1600 AD ca 25000
Padua 1254 AD ca 11000
Ravenna 1371 AD 7000
Konstantinopel 1453 AD ca 30000 1927AD 691000

Doesn't sound like hundred thousands or millions.

Look at it this way-it's it's own game-sm is just one faction (albeit tech advanced) and a company is a fraction of a faction.

 Anfauglir wrote:

Yes, yes I can. Over and over again no matter how many times you refuse to face it. The Elves and Dwarves being rare matters very little in the face of a hundred opponents, it's still far, far too little a force to permenantly destroy and/or dominate them. How, pray tell, are a hundred warriors going to be able to police all of the Elf and Dwarf kingdoms effectively? Or at all, for that matter? They're not, and to think that they can is delusional. I say again: not enough manpower, it's really that simple.

There are not hundreds of opponents.
Wars aren't fought against "every single living creature of a planet" no matter how hard you want to believe it.

 Anfauglir wrote:

And one that is still completely and utterly impossible for a single company to accomplish. There are not enough Marines to go around and kill enough leaders, police enough provinces, supress enough rebellions, erradicate enough Chaos, etc, etc, etc that would be needed to even start transforming the Warhammer World into an ordered, compliant planet.

Sure, the mongols policed every single chinese and most of the asian continent to rule them all....

 Anfauglir wrote:

Except no, because the Orcs will never bow. The Skaven will never bow. The Warriors of Chaos, and the numberless Daemon hoards will never bow. The Slann and their Lizardmen will never bow. The Beastmen will never bow. The Tomb Kings and the Vampire Counts are extremely unlikely to bow, as are the Elves, Dwarves and Ogres, for that matter. Also, there's a tiny problem with that "make" part of your grand plan. The only way they're going to "make" any faction of the Warhammer World do anything is the complete military, political and ideological subjugation of that faction... something they simply don't have the numbers to do.

Really?
Who cares if fantasy orcs don't bow and wh40k orks don't...
But keep your silly double standards.
The undead fall apart without their leaders. Elves are too few to resist, dwarfs too.

 Anfauglir wrote:

You seem to have trapped yourself in some fallacy that the Warhammer Fantasy and 40K universe resembles our own when it comes to how much reliance is placed on melee warfare. Sorry to break this to you, but... Space Marines are nothing more than medieval knights INN SPAAACE! GW and 40K fluff love the romantic notion of hand-to-hand combat, Marines are no different and can't get enough of it. Pro-tip: stop trying to relate what the Space Marines are and how they would fight based on our own, modern, real life military forces. It doesn't work, and does nothing for your argument. Finally, one thing says that the Marines will have to engage in melee: supplies, namely munitions. They aren't infinite, more to the point, they're vastly inadequate for the task at hand.

Both , warhammer and warhammer 40k are GW "universes".
Space marines are ok as Knights in space. There is no fallacy. Just your ignorance.
So I don't need "pro-tips" and crap like it just because you can't get over the fact Shooting has proven its worth and HtH isn't so important anymore.

 Anfauglir wrote:

Right, and a hundred soldiers is not even enough resources for city-state battles, let alone world-wars. The fact that you think otherwise is, I'm afraid, both delusional and laughable.

I accept your delusions and am willing to post without "laughable" and other used as "arguments"..
The leg your position stands on must be really weak to resort to this.

It's funny how people keep forgetting that Chaos Daemons exist at the same level of magical potency and lunacy in the Fantasy setting as they do in the 40K setting.

Chaos Daemons can stomp marine armies in standard games of 40K. The marines, isolated and alone without continuous support, Chaos Daemons alone would ensure this company falls. We don't even need to factor in the utter world-shaking power of the Slann or the uncountable Orc and Undead legions. Anybody arguing in favor of the marines is being obtuse and just ignoring the facts.

 1hadhq wrote:

 UlrikDecado wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:

UlrikDecado wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:
Nonsense.
Settlements in the ancient era on earth had only a few thousand people per city. Fantasy settings aren't different.

There aren't millions of living/undead creatures and surely pacification =/= kill em all.

Ahem...by ancient era you mean medieval? Like...WHFB?

WHFB has a lot of collected stuff, like Egyptians ( tomb kings ) Fantasy ( elves and orcs and dwarfs ) , Bretonnia ( medieval ) , Empire ( 1400-1600 ), etc.

Yeah. And main part is Empire, Bretons, Kislev, heck, even those Elves are medieval. If you say "in the ancient era on earth had only a few thousand people per city" in this context, its...simply wrong. Bigger medieval cities had from 40 thousand to 200 thousand people. For the Egyptian metropolis, Alexandria had from 300 thousand to even one million with slaves accounted. And of course, like you said, there are orcs and skaven, not exactly known for low numbers of fighting force.

Alexandria 400AD ca 80000 - 90000 ( McEvedy ).
Cordoba 1600 AD ca 25000
Padua 1254 AD ca 11000
Ravenna 1371 AD 7000
Konstantinopel 1453 AD ca 30000 1927AD 691000

Doesn't sound like hundred thousands or millions.

Moscow (1400) 150-250 000
Prague (1420) 10 000
London (14th) 25-50 000
Cordoba during Ummayads - 50-200 000 sources vary
Paris 40-80 thousand
Marseille 30-50 000
Alexandria, as I said (Walbank, Astin), but funny thing is, you cant make good estimates because of huge slave population (= moooooar tomb king warriors!)

But, at the beginning you said Settlements in the ancient era on earth had only a few thousand people per city - sorry mate, big lie. Or rather mistake, not lie, sorry.

SM lose

Bah. Obviously, the marines can't win. Bolters only have a 50/50 chance to even go through Heavy Armour when it's combined with a shield!

As for 'engaging at ranges of hundreds of kilometres' you kinda missed the part where we're talking about Marines, not Guard, didn't you? The only weapon a Marine has with any 'over the horizon' ability is the Whirlwind, and even that requires spotters to do more than pop rockets over walls.

Love how everyone on the 40k side is ignoring the fact that the Lore of Heavens is all the anti-air you ever need. It can grab ASTEROIDS from SPACE, people. The Lore of the Heavens can reach out thousands of miles to grab giant rocks that mass in at hundreds of tonnes and travel at thousands of kilometres per second, and divert them to crash into the planet accurately in less than ten minutes.

THAT is what kind of anti-air the Old World has to offer against Thunderhawks, etc. What kind of evasive action can a Thunderhawk take against an invisible hand scooping it out of the sky and tossing it face-first into the mud?

Heck, it would probably only take ten, maybe twenty level four Celestial Wizards to rip the dang Strike Cruiser out of the sky.

Edit: The bit about AP5 vs 4+ saves was a joke, by the way, in case anyone took it seriously.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 UlrikDecado wrote:


Sorry, it would end like this. "Hey, some new magical gimmick from Empire/ Dwarfs/ Tzeentch/ Druchii.." - take it down with our fethton of antiair and lets continue...oh, what a nice piece of armor, lets put it on flagpole, dont scrub those remains

What kind of anti-air are you going to shoot at a Thunderhawk or, even more hilariously, a Drop Pod?

Seriously, Drop Pod in, kill the leaders of various factions before they know they're in trouble, extract with Thunderhawk. Rinse and repeat. They never have to fight the Empire, Bretonnia, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Kislev etc. The Daemons will prove problematic, as will the Orks and Lizardmen (due to Slann being prophetic), but everyone else can be dealt with in a surgical manner, the sort of combat Astartes are trained for. Even the High Elves, with Dragons and Magic, will be helpless since they don't know that they're under attack before the Drop Pods and Thunderhawks arrive in the middle of the Phoenix King's court to murder the everliving crap out of everyone important.

As for cities with 200k+ inhabitants, I imagine that incendiary bombs dropped from the Thunderhawks could set fire to them rather easily. Sure, there'd be survivors, but it'll take ages to rebuild, which means the Astartes can go deal with something else.

Mobility wins wars.

Yeah, because we saw, how mobility won Afghanistan Sorry mate, you are operating with childish (OK, its whole thread, I admit) "no no, they can fly away!" Thunderhawk get hit by lightning...warp stom? Fething dragon?? Drop pod is good, I admit...bring dead SM meat closer to demise, but cant be shot, I agree You idea is "we have enough of fuel to fly over the planet many time, make surprising attack, doesnt get killed by gakton of magic, artifacts and other thing leaders like in WHFB like to have around, fly away, do it again and after that, everyone will mourn and we will be victorious, planet conquered, because, we said so". Yeaaaaaah

 Silverthorne wrote:
Ceramite=/= metal

If my leather armor and wooden shield wearing guys get killed by the Lore of Metal the. PA and TDA doesn't stand a chance...

 1hadhq wrote:
There are not hundreds of opponents.
Wars aren't fought against "every single living creature of a planet" no matter how hard you want to believe it.

I didn't say there were. I said that the Elves and Dwarves being rare wasn't an issue in the face of "a hundred opponents"... i.e. their kingdoms only have a single Marine company to deal with. Get it? One hundred soldiers are no match for either the Elves or the Dwarves, or any other faction. I'm sorry, but they're simply not.

Really?

Yes. Really.

Who cares if fantasy orcs don't bow and wh40k orks don't...

Umm... your argument sure should, seeing as your whole position was "just make a few kings bow to the Emprah and BAM! Whole planet is now pacified". The entire Orc population of Warhammer World will never, ever bow to a human God, and a mere hundred Marines certainly won't make them. So who cares? Well, only those who are concerned with making any kind of sense in this ridiculous debate, it seems.

But keep your silly double standards.

Remind me what these double standards are, and where they appear. Do you know what double standards are?

The undead fall apart without their leaders. Elves are too few to resist, dwarfs too.

Too few? You do realise a single Marine company is just a hundred soldiers, right? Has that come up in this topic yet? Because you really don't seem to be getting just how impossible it would be for such a limited force to actually accomplish anything of lasting value against even a single united Fantasy faction, let alone the entire world.

Space marines are ok as Knights in space. There is no fallacy. Just your ignorance.

Remind me what I'm being ignorant of. Do you know what ignorant means?

I don't need "pro-tips" and crap like it just because you can't get over the fact Shooting has proven its worth and HtH isn't so important anymore.

Here's another pro-tip: shooting is only useful when you have something to shoot. Once the things that are shot during shooting are all gone... guess what? The things that used to be able to shoot have significantly less worth. Stop trying to pretend the 40K universe has real-life levels of imbalance between ranged and melee warfare. You know that twenty out of the hundred Marines are there just to engage in close quarters, right? You do know that if the 40K universe resembled real life warfare the Imperial Guard and Imperial Navy would dominate the galaxy pretty easily and all wars would be decided at a range of many, many kilometres, and that the pitched table-top battles we see with powerswords and chainswords and powerfists etc just wouldn't exist? Right? Space Marines are just another romantic incarnation of crusading knights who love to charge in the hit stuff in noble, glorious melee just as much (if not more) than shoot things at range. It's a fact. Get over it.

I accept your delusions and am willing to post without "laughable" and other used as "arguments"..
The leg your position stands on must be really weak to resort to this.

I genuinely don't understand what you're saying here. Resort to what?

No way no how. If a choppa can kill an Marine you'd better bet a Cannon Ball to the face will. Also the people of WFB might actually be smart enough to shoot for the face.

UlrikDecado wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:

 UlrikDecado wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:

UlrikDecado wrote:

 1hadhq wrote:
Nonsense.
Settlements in the ancient era on earth had only a few thousand people per city. Fantasy settings aren't different.

There aren't millions of living/undead creatures and surely pacification =/= kill em all.

Ahem...by ancient era you mean medieval? Like...WHFB?

WHFB has a lot of collected stuff, like Egyptians ( tomb kings ) Fantasy ( elves and orcs and dwarfs ) , Bretonnia ( medieval ) , Empire ( 1400-1600 ), etc.

Yeah. And main part is Empire, Bretons, Kislev, heck, even those Elves are medieval. If you say "in the ancient era on earth had only a few thousand people per city" in this context, its...simply wrong. Bigger medieval cities had from 40 thousand to 200 thousand people. For the Egyptian metropolis, Alexandria had from 300 thousand to even one million with slaves accounted. And of course, like you said, there are orcs and skaven, not exactly known for low numbers of fighting force.

Alexandria 400AD ca 80000 - 90000 ( McEvedy ).
Cordoba 1600 AD ca 25000
Padua 1254 AD ca 11000
Ravenna 1371 AD 7000
Konstantinopel 1453 AD ca 30000 1927AD 691000

Doesn't sound like hundred thousands or millions.

Moscow (1400) 150-250 000
Prague (1420) 10 000
London (14th) 25-50 000
Cordoba during Ummayads - 50-200 000 sources vary
Paris 40-80 thousand
Marseille 30-50 000
Alexandria, as I said (Walbank, Astin), but funny thing is, you cant make good estimates because of huge slave population (= moooooar tomb king warriors!)

But, at the beginning you said Settlements in the ancient era on earth had only a few thousand people per city - sorry mate, big lie. Or rather mistake, not lie, sorry.

SM lose

No lie. Just believable numbers based on sources that don't need to blow something up to "moooooar" ..
The only real one you have is Prague.
Am Sorry too.

Anfauglir wrote:
Yes. Really.

No.

Anfauglir wrote:
Umm... your argument sure should, seeing as your whole position was "just make a few kings bow to the Emprah and BAM! Whole planet is now pacified". The entire Orc population of Warhammer World will never, ever bow to a human God, and a mere hundred Marines certainly won't make them. So who cares? Well, only those who are concerned with making any kind of sense in this ridiculous debate, it seems.

Sense? Who aims for sense in fantasyhammer vs sci-fantasyhammer, both based on GW templates for function and scale ???

Anfauglir wrote:
Do you know what double standards are?

Yes.

Anfauglir wrote:
Too few? You do realise a single Marine company is just a hundred soldiers, right? Has that come up in this topic yet? Because you really don't seem to be getting just how impossible it would be for such a limited force to actually accomplish anything of lasting value against even a single united Fantasy faction, let alone the entire world.

Keep on overestimating the size of the warhammer factions.

Anfauglir wrote: Do you know what ignorant means?

Got posts like yours as a example. So yes.

Anfauglir wrote:
Here's another pro-tip:

Lets see: I said stuff your "pro tips" where the sun never shines. Your reaction: oh Hi have another "pro tip"....
Well, thanks for nothing.

Anfauglir wrote:
I genuinely don't understand what you're saying here. Resort to what?

I am sure you understand.

 1hadhq wrote:
Sense? Who aims for sense in fantasyhammer vs sci-fantasyhammer, both based on GW templates for function and scale ???

Oh, okay... my mistake! Let me abandon sense and see where my argument then lies. Ahhh, I see. Without sense, I can totally and utterly understand how a lone Marine company from 40K can easily invade and pacify the entire planet from WHFB! Cheers!

 1hadhq wrote:

Anfauglir wrote:
Do you know what double standards are?

Yes.

Ha ha, nice try. But you see, you conveniently left out the first half of my question, you know, the part where I asked you to point out my supposed double standards and thus proving (or disproving) the very need for the second half. Without the first, your reply to the second rings decidedly and profoundly hollow. Now, I ask again: where are my double standards? If you continue to assert that they're there without simply (and correctly!) identifying them then you'll have validated my second question by demonstrating clearly that you don't have a clue what double standards are.

Keep on overestimating the size of the warhammer factions.

I have overestimated no such thing. To do so would require hard numbers. The only numbers I've used is that put forth by the OP: a full battle company of Space Marines. Stop putting words in my mouth and/or mixing my posts up with those of other users debating slightly different aspects of the debate with you.

 1hadhq wrote:

Anfauglir wrote:Do you know what ignorant means?

Got posts like yours as a example. So yes.

Yeah... sorry, same issue as before, I'm afraid. A simple definition and how it applies to my posts will suffice, if you would. If you can't, or won't, then again you will have clearly demonstrated to me your lack of understanding - your ignorance, go figure - of what it actually means to be ignorant.

Lets see: I said stuff your "pro tips" where the sun never shines. Your reaction: oh Hi have another "pro tip"....
Well, thanks for nothing.

You're welcome. And don't think for one second that I'll hesitate to furnish you with continued gifts of wisdom and advice for as long as your posts cry out for more help.

I am sure you understand.

I am sure that I don't. Really, I don't. What was that last part saying? Resort to what?

 d-usa wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Ceramite=/= metal

If my leather armor and wooden shield wearing guys get killed by the Lore of Metal the. PA and TDA doesn't stand a chance...

Hahaha fair enough. I would like to see a single stranded space marine character in the WFB world. Like a lost-in-the warp librarian.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I didn't aim to start a big flame war, I just think it's fun to think about-- especially some of my favorite characters in 40k, like Sammael riding along side pistoleers or something.

Also, I would be interested if the 'open minded' commander would consider necromancy and vampires actually bad. The Imperium, and sepecifically Space Marines practice basically necromancy all the time, so I bet he would actually have a lot less problem with Vampire lords than the average Fantasy human. Especially if it's a BA captain...

 PrehistoricUFO wrote:
It's funny how people keep forgetting that Chaos Daemons exist at the same level of magical potency and lunacy in the Fantasy setting as they do in the 40K setting.

Chaos Daemons can stomp marine armies in standard games of 40K. The marines, isolated and alone without continuous support, Chaos Daemons alone would ensure this company falls. We don't even need to factor in the utter world-shaking power of the Slann or the uncountable Orc and Undead legions. Anybody arguing in favor of the marines is being obtuse and just ignoring the facts.

Can you source that they are equally powerful in both universes?

And no, game mechanics certainly do not count.

Because if Daemonettes can tear up Terminator armour but have problems with a knight's plate armour, I suspect something is fishy.

incidently, it likely won't shift things eaither way, but according to the space Marine codex each battle company is reinforced by elements from the 1st company and the reserve companies. so the odds are any Battlecompany deploying will deploy with more then 100 men. proably more along the lines for 150. not that it matters much in the force of that, but I think it's worth noting that the marines would thus also have bikes, land speeders, and reserve troops with them.

Space marines don't stand a chance in hell. To avoid complications let's stick with comparables. An ogre is about an equivalent to an ogryn, there are thousands of ogres in the warhammer world, that alone would stand all over a readily 100 marines. Orc equals feral ork ,there are possibly millions of orcs, enough to drain the marines dry of ammunition,Don,t even get me started on the skaven. Greater daemon equals greater daemon, one of which can sweep away entire units of Marines, so with that we can assuming things with similar stat lines such as dragons would be similarly destructive. A whole chapter might stand a chance but a company? Not even close.

BrianDavion wrote:
incidently, it likely won't shift things eaither way, but according to the space Marine codex each battle company is reinforced by elements from the 1st company and the reserve companies. so the odds are any Battlecompany deploying will deploy with more then 100 men. proably more along the lines for 150. not that it matters much in the force of that, but I think it's worth noting that the marines would thus also have bikes, land speeders, and reserve troops with them.

I'm pretty sure that it means when a Chapter deploys a "battle company", it is structured around a core of tactical, assault and devestator Marines drawn from their actual, logistical Battle Comps, which are then supplemented by 1st Comp vets and 10th Comp scouts and whatever else from the armoury to suit the needs of whatever the campaign/mission is. These composite companies are then transported in Strike Cruisers and deployed as Battle-Comp strength formations, therefore they can still be managed on a logistical level as a "battle company", which means a strength of roughly 100 Marines. At least, that's how I've always viewed it. You're right about the bikes and speeders etc, though. Each Strike Cruiser carries a complement of the Chapters motor pool. You're also right about it not shifting it significantly either way, too.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Space marines don't stand a chance in hell. To avoid complications let's stick with comparables. An ogre is about an equivalent to an ogryn, there are thousands of ogres in the warhammer world, that alone would stand all over a readily 100 marines. Orc equals feral ork ,there are possibly millions of orcs, enough to drain the marines dry of ammunition,Don,t even get me started on the skaven. Greater daemon equals greater daemon, one of which can sweep away entire units of Marines, so with that we can assuming things with similar stat lines such as dragons would be similarly destructive. A whole chapter might stand a chance but a company? Not even close.

Now you see, you're using logic and common sense in your argument there. I'm afraid that doesn't count for much against one or two around these parts. You're better off saving yourself the trouble and moving on.

Just by turning up the SM prove that the Tyranids exist, So the Squa i mean dwarfs, poof. disappear cause they've all been eaten.
That allows the Orc's to pour down the mountains and Skaven to rise up to destroy the Empire, which should lead to less chaos troops. Undead are probably the easiest to take out, Burn the Elves to the ground. Ogre's and giants shot to bits from a km away.
Just for reference the size of the army in Wolf of Sigmar (not sure when that is in the time line) when the Skaven almost destroyed the Empire was about 10000 men. But wizards and magik you say, nope they had no wizards. A magik hammer, but no wizards.
I dont have a problem with 100 SM destroying that many.
SM vs Warhammer, is like Guard vs SM in 40k. Blown to bits before they can get anywhere near them.

People keep saying how they can drop pod in and kill the leaders, please explain how you can;
A) retrieve said drop pods if dropping into an army or do you have plot armor that allows you to have unlimited drop pods
B) Drop pod under ground to fight the skaven...

All if would essentially take for all the slann to wake up and make it rain meteors and comets 24/7, sure it's not the most effective tactic in the world, but the sheer amount of failing rocks will destroy anything

Without orbital support the space marines have no chance.


With orbital support...

Would flying to the nearest asteroid belt and nudging some extinction class rocks into the planets path be considered orbital bombardment?

 Desubot wrote:
Would flying to the nearest asteroid belt and nudging some extinction class rocks into the planets path be considered orbital bombardment?

Shrewd. I should't think so.

SM Chapters really need to be 10,000 minimum for it to make even a modicum of sense for them being able to conduct planetary-scale independent operations (which they do in fluff all the time). Way it stands right now a Company of Marines couldn't capture New York State, nevermind a planet (which they regularly do in fluff as well).

Demons, orcs, magic, tactics, Slaan...

Didn't you heard guys?

WHFB world is a toast already!
.....

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DRAIGO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
is on his way there !

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
n ogre is about an equivalent to an ogryn, Orc equals feral ork ,Greater daemon equals greater daemon

Can you source all that?

Game mechanics are a moot point since then you're arguing Knight plate armour is superior to Terminator Armour.

When I see things like Empire heroes whacking down Orc Warlords without issues I think I have very good reason to suspect that WHFB races are very much not equal to their 40K equivalents.

 tomball0706 wrote:
People keep saying how they can drop pod in and kill the leaders, please explain how you can;
A) retrieve said drop pods if dropping into an army or do you have plot armor that allows you to have unlimited drop pods
B) Drop pod under ground to fight the skaven...

All if would essentially take for all the slann to wake up and make it rain meteors and comets 24/7, sure it's not the most effective tactic in the world, but the sheer amount of failing rocks will destroy anything

Whilst as far as I am aware it is never discussed in the fluff, it is widely believed that marines can retrieve said drop pods, they can retrieve vehicles from the ground, they must be able to retrieve them also.

Secondly, when it comes to building new vehicles, I assume drop pods are churned out by the dozen, and probably take very little time in comparison to other machinery for the chapter, so again, they can probably replace them quite fast. Though, in this scenario, it would require the marines to have a forge ship which they don't have.

Yeah, drop pods with skaven is a problem.....

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Whilst as far as I am aware it is never discussed in the fluff, it is widely believed that marines can retrieve said drop pods, they can retrieve vehicles from the ground, they must be able to retrieve them also.

Yes, but only once the invasion is successful and after the dust has settled... i.e. the Marines go in fast and hard, take out and/or secure key strategic objectives and then either hold until support arrives or pull out entirely and wait for the Guard to mop up. Only then, once the territory is firmly captured, can any kind of salvage begin. However, in this scenario there is no support, no reinforcements to relieve the strike force, no full scale invasion... just one company going in on their own. Using drop pods in this case does nothing except hasten the Marine's inevitable demise. If their goal is to survive as long as possible, hit-and-run raids using bikes and speeders is their only real option, and even that will be of limited use and subject to their far from limiltless supplies.

Secondly, when it comes to building new vehicles, I assume drop pods are churned out by the dozen, and probably take very little time in comparison to other machinery for the chapter, so again, they can probably replace them quite fast. Though, in this scenario, it would require the marines to have a forge ship which they don't have.

You said so yourself, that isn't the case in this scenario. They will only have a handful at most, and their use will be a one-time only deal.

Just going to post this link here:

http://www.demographia.com/dm-lon31.htm

... and point out that the population of London exceeded 1 million people in the 19th century, and numbered 40-50K in the 14th century.

That's just 1 city, and fairly equivalent to Altdorf. You'd also want to look at the other Old World cities and their real-world inspirations (Prague, Venice, Copenhagen, Moscow, etc) and the era in which they exist in the Old World (some cities, for example, are more Renaissance than others). This will help determine a rough idea of the population available and the numbers of soldiers that can be levied.

In the end, though, the Space Marines are f*cked. They don't pack enough fuel or ammo to deal with the Old World.