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So this Saturday I have a 1500 point tournament. It is a one day three round event with three scoring missions. First is big guns never tire on dawn of war, second is the scouring on hammer and anvil, and the third is crusade on vanguard. This is what I am thinking of bringing. Please comment, thanks in advance.

Typhus

5 Plague Marines
-2 plasma guns
-VoTLW
-Rhino

5 Plague Marines
-2 plasma guns
-VoTLW
-Rhino

18 Plague Zombies

5 Nurgle Spawn

Heldrake
-baleflamer

3 Obliterators
-MoN
-VoTLW

3 Obliterators
-MoN
-VoTLW

Split oblitz into 3 pairs unless typhus ds wit them. What are spawns for?

I agree you that you need to split up the Obliterators. Also, what's the plan with typhus, are you using the zombies as a delivery system?

As to the spawns, most people seem to mark them with MoN and/or run them with a lord on a bike. Right now it seems like they don't have a purpose.

If you're not going to mark the spawn and/or run them with a lord on a bike, then maybe drop them and add another unit of PMs or a second Heldrake.

Typhus and Plague Zombies are good combo. However, I'd attach an HQ to the Spawn just of delivery purposes.

Spawn are asre kickers w/o lord. They soak up fire, and if they do not get shot = opponent wont make that mistake again.

If you're wondering why everyone is telling you to split up the obliterators, its a 3 part suggestion:
1) with their long range, the more units you have the more you can spread them, creating a larger threat bubble and making it harder to kill them all as great distances will have to be traveled.
2) both squads of 2 and 3 will require a leadership check if 1 obliterator dies. Better to have 1 running than 2.
3) Having an additional squad allows greater versatility as you have 3 different possible weapons per turn rather than 2.

Oblits should be 3 groups of 2, that makes them more effective for deepstrike tank popping, that's 3 dead tanks instead of 2. Also another scoring unit for big guns.
Drop 2 spawn and increase your zombies numbers, even with fnp they are still vulnerable vs templates so you could do with keeping numbers up...
Overall not bad, but I feel you will get trumped by tau and eldar...

Warboss Niblet wrote:
So this Saturday I have a 1500 point tournament. It is a one day three round event with three scoring missions. First is big guns never tire on dawn of war, second is the scouring on hammer and anvil, and the third is crusade on vanguard. This is what I am thinking of bringing. Please comment, thanks in advance.

Typhus

5 Plague Marines
-2 plasma guns
-VoTLW
-Rhino

5 Plague Marines
-2 plasma guns
-VoTLW
-Rhino



18 Plague Zombies

5 Nurgle Spawn

Heldrake
-baleflamer

3 Obliterators
-MoN
-VoTLW

3 Obliterators
-MoN
-VoTLW

Also, I would definitely fit in a second Heldrake!!

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

Warboss Niblet wrote:
So this Saturday I have a 1500 point tournament. It is a one day three round event with three scoring missions. First is big guns never tire on dawn of war, second is the scouring on hammer and anvil, and the third is crusade on vanguard. This is what I am thinking of bringing. Please comment, thanks in advance.

Typhus

5 Plague Marines
-2 plasma guns
-VoTLW
-Rhino

5 Plague Marines
-2 plasma guns
-VoTLW
-Rhino



18 Plague Zombies

5 Nurgle Spawn

Heldrake
-baleflamer

3 Obliterators
-MoN
-VoTLW

3 Obliterators
-MoN
-VoTLW

Also, I would definitely fit in a second Heldrake!!

Stop that.

 changerofways wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

Warboss Niblet wrote:
So this Saturday I have a 1500 point tournament. It is a one day three round event with three scoring missions. First is big guns never tire on dawn of war, second is the scouring on hammer and anvil, and the third is crusade on vanguard. This is what I am thinking of bringing. Please comment, thanks in advance.

Typhus

5 Plague Marines
-2 plasma guns
-VoTLW
-Rhino

5 Plague Marines
-2 plasma guns
-VoTLW
-Rhino



18 Plague Zombies

5 Nurgle Spawn

Heldrake
-baleflamer

3 Obliterators
-MoN
-VoTLW

3 Obliterators
-MoN
-VoTLW

Also, I would definitely fit in a second Heldrake!!

Stop that.

Stop what? He's playing in a tourney, Heldrakes are what make CSM tourney viable. 2 Heldrakes are the magic number.

"Heldrakes are what make CSM tourney viable." - Every tourney player that seems to be unaware that everyone has access to Skyfire these days(Quad-Gunned Aegis Defense Lines and such).

 SkinCarver wrote:
"Heldrakes are what make CSM tourney viable." - Every tourney player that seems to be unaware that everyone has access to Skyfire these days(Quad-Gunned Aegis Defense Lines and such).

Yea, my heldrakes tank quadguns all day. Glancing on 5s against AV12 and they've got an invul + IWND. Quad gun is a poor counter to heldrakes.

Also, if you're denying that heldrakes are the most competitive unit in the book, then you're sorely mistaken.

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 SkinCarver wrote:
"Heldrakes are what make CSM tourney viable." - Every tourney player that seems to be unaware that everyone has access to Skyfire these days(Quad-Gunned Aegis Defense Lines and such).

Yea, my heldrakes tank quadguns all day. Glancing on 5s against AV12 and they've got an invul + IWND. Quad gun is a poor counter to heldrakes.

Also, if you're denying that heldrakes are the most competitive unit in the book, then you're sorely mistaken.

Fight Tau much? Skyfire and Interceptor all over. Necrons? IWND won't save you from being auto-glanced to death by Gauss, and a 5++ will fail 66% of the time. I'm not saying it's a bad unit at all. I'm saying that players who use Heldrakes as a crutch do so because they suck at using the rest of their army. My Noise Marines get more done than my two 'drakes nearly every game, and they can threaten Land Raiders AND capture objectives. That's just one example of something I would rather have more of in my army than an additional Heldrake. So, to quote changerofways, "Stop that".

I have to agree with my colleague: two Heldrakes is the magic number. If he reduces the size of the Oblit squads from 3 down to 2, he'll almost have enough points right there.

 SkinCarver wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 SkinCarver wrote:
"Heldrakes are what make CSM tourney viable." - Every tourney player that seems to be unaware that everyone has access to Skyfire these days(Quad-Gunned Aegis Defense Lines and such).

Yea, my heldrakes tank quadguns all day. Glancing on 5s against AV12 and they've got an invul + IWND. Quad gun is a poor counter to heldrakes.

Also, if you're denying that heldrakes are the most competitive unit in the book, then you're sorely mistaken.

Fight Tau much? Skyfire and Interceptor all over. Necrons? IWND won't save you from being auto-glanced to death by Gauss, and a 5++ will fail 66% of the time. I'm not saying it's a bad unit at all. I'm saying that players who use Heldrakes as a crutch do so because they suck at using the rest of their army. My Noise Marines get more done than my two 'drakes nearly every game, and they can threaten Land Raiders AND capture objectives. That's just one example of something I would rather have more of in my army than an additional Heldrake. So, to quote changerofways, "Stop that".

He's looking for the most competitive way to run his CSM at the tourney on saturday. The most competitive way to do this is with two drakes. Furthermore, you should math hammer gauss snapfiring at drakes, then trying to "auto glance" on 6's. That's not an effective drake counter. Tau will beat CSM anyway... Tau will be most things anyway (with the exception of daemons and a good Eldar list). The thing about Heldrakes is, unless intercepted off when they come on (which usually won't happen unless you're facing tau), they already do most of their damage the turn they come on. I Won't "stop that" when the OP is asking for help at his tournament on Saturday, I'm posting here to help him, and the best way to help him is to get a second drake in that list. The only people who'd disagree with this, are people who don't like playing the best unit in the codex on principle.

@ the OP. Definitely fit a second heldrake in buddy, it'll greatly help you win more games on Saturday. Good luck!

 SkinCarver wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 SkinCarver wrote:
"Heldrakes are what make CSM tourney viable." - Every tourney player that seems to be unaware that everyone has access to Skyfire these days(Quad-Gunned Aegis Defense Lines and such).

Yea, my heldrakes tank quadguns all day. Glancing on 5s against AV12 and they've got an invul + IWND. Quad gun is a poor counter to heldrakes.

Also, if you're denying that heldrakes are the most competitive unit in the book, then you're sorely mistaken.

Fight Tau much? Skyfire and Interceptor all over. Necrons? IWND won't save you from being auto-glanced to death by Gauss, and a 5++ will fail 66% of the time. I'm not saying it's a bad unit at all. I'm saying that players who use Heldrakes as a crutch do so because they suck at using the rest of their army. My Noise Marines get more done than my two 'drakes nearly every game, and they can threaten Land Raiders AND capture objectives. That's just one example of something I would rather have more of in my army than an additional Heldrake. So, to quote changerofways, "Stop that".

Is 5++ 66%?

^ it is to fail.

cuddle_nuts wrote:

 SkinCarver wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 SkinCarver wrote:
"Heldrakes are what make CSM tourney viable." - Every tourney player that seems to be unaware that everyone has access to Skyfire these days(Quad-Gunned Aegis Defense Lines and such).

Yea, my heldrakes tank quadguns all day. Glancing on 5s against AV12 and they've got an invul + IWND. Quad gun is a poor counter to heldrakes.

Also, if you're denying that heldrakes are the most competitive unit in the book, then you're sorely mistaken.

Fight Tau much? Skyfire and Interceptor all over. Necrons? IWND won't save you from being auto-glanced to death by Gauss, and a 5++ will fail 66% of the time. I'm not saying it's a bad unit at all. I'm saying that players who use Heldrakes as a crutch do so because they suck at using the rest of their army. My Noise Marines get more done than my two 'drakes nearly every game, and they can threaten Land Raiders AND capture objectives. That's just one example of something I would rather have more of in my army than an additional Heldrake. So, to quote changerofways, "Stop that".

Is 5++ 66%?

A 5++ is a 33% chance of not taking damage. That means it has a 66% of failing. This is dice math, not rocket science.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Furthermore, you should math hammer gauss snapfiring at drakes, then trying to "auto glance" on 6's. That's not an effective drake counter. Tau will beat CSM anyway... Tau will be most things anyway (with the exception of daemons and a good Eldar list). The thing about Heldrakes is, unless intercepted off when they come on (which usually won't happen unless you're facing tau), they already do most of their damage the turn they come on. I Won't "stop that" when the OP is asking for help at his tournament on Saturday, I'm posting here to help him, and the best way to help him is to get a second drake in that list. The only people who'd disagree with this, are people who don't like playing the best unit in the codex on principle.

All I see is a WAAC player making a lot of internet based assumptions. I'm out.

SkinCarver wrote:

cuddle_nuts wrote:

 SkinCarver wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 SkinCarver wrote:
"Heldrakes are what make CSM tourney viable." - Every tourney player that seems to be unaware that everyone has access to Skyfire these days(Quad-Gunned Aegis Defense Lines and such).

Yea, my heldrakes tank quadguns all day. Glancing on 5s against AV12 and they've got an invul + IWND. Quad gun is a poor counter to heldrakes.

Also, if you're denying that heldrakes are the most competitive unit in the book, then you're sorely mistaken.

Fight Tau much? Skyfire and Interceptor all over. Necrons? IWND won't save you from being auto-glanced to death by Gauss, and a 5++ will fail 66% of the time. I'm not saying it's a bad unit at all. I'm saying that players who use Heldrakes as a crutch do so because they suck at using the rest of their army. My Noise Marines get more done than my two 'drakes nearly every game, and they can threaten Land Raiders AND capture objectives. That's just one example of something I would rather have more of in my army than an additional Heldrake. So, to quote changerofways, "Stop that".

Is 5++ 66%?

A 5++ is a 33% chance of not taking damage. That means it has a 66% of failing. This is dice math, not rocket science.


It was a question, no need to insult. If this kind of stuff makes you mad, perhaps you shouldn't comment or play the game...

SkinCarver wrote:

cuddle_nuts wrote:

 SkinCarver wrote:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:

 SkinCarver wrote:
"Heldrakes are what make CSM tourney viable." - Every tourney player that seems to be unaware that everyone has access to Skyfire these days(Quad-Gunned Aegis Defense Lines and such).

Yea, my heldrakes tank quadguns all day. Glancing on 5s against AV12 and they've got an invul + IWND. Quad gun is a poor counter to heldrakes.

Also, if you're denying that heldrakes are the most competitive unit in the book, then you're sorely mistaken.

Fight Tau much? Skyfire and Interceptor all over. Necrons? IWND won't save you from being auto-glanced to death by Gauss, and a 5++ will fail 66% of the time. I'm not saying it's a bad unit at all. I'm saying that players who use Heldrakes as a crutch do so because they suck at using the rest of their army. My Noise Marines get more done than my two 'drakes nearly every game, and they can threaten Land Raiders AND capture objectives. That's just one example of something I would rather have more of in my army than an additional Heldrake. So, to quote changerofways, "Stop that".

Is 5++ 66%?

A 5++ is a 33% chance of not taking damage. That means it has a 66% of failing. This is dice math, not rocket science.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Furthermore, you should math hammer gauss snapfiring at drakes, then trying to "auto glance" on 6's. That's not an effective drake counter. Tau will beat CSM anyway... Tau will be most things anyway (with the exception of daemons and a good Eldar list). The thing about Heldrakes is, unless intercepted off when they come on (which usually won't happen unless you're facing tau), they already do most of their damage the turn they come on. I Won't "stop that" when the OP is asking for help at his tournament on Saturday, I'm posting here to help him, and the best way to help him is to get a second drake in that list. The only people who'd disagree with this, are people who don't like playing the best unit in the codex on principle.

All I see is a WAAC player making a lot of internet based assumptions. I'm out.

He's playing in a tourney environment. To have success field you must be WAAC. If the topic was, "Beer and peanuts list in my buddies garage" I wouldn't have made said suggestion. I think you have trouble with context man...

Actually Tau don't scare me I eat them for breakfast. The only problem I have with them is that they will roast my drake and will roast 2 just as quick. The one Tau player I expect runs a 3 broadside unit with high yield missile pods and skyfire+interceptor. The nurgle spawn for tying up things like said broadside units. Typhus will be coming in with an oblit unit or possibly just by himself to distract the opponent.