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I am in the process of building a list for Jetseer Council because I love the idea of psykers, but I have never faced it or played it myself. Any criticism on the list would be great. I am really unsure about how to fit the Ravager. Should I try to get Night Shields and/or Flickerfield. I was debating also using Dark Lances or Disentegrator Cannons on the Ravager. Right now my most difficult opponents are Tau and Necrons. The Necron list has several AV13 vehicles so obviously the DL's would be better. However the Tau list usually has 2 hammerheads, 1 riptide, and crisis suits. I am torn on which would be better for supporting this list. Would other weapons on the farseers be more beneficial? How many singing spears is optimal for the warlocks?

Primary Eldar Detachment
HQ:
Farseer: Jetbike, Singing Spear - 120
Farseer: Jetbike, Singing Spear - 120
Warlocks (6): Jetbikes, 4 Singing Spears - 320

TROOPS:
Dire Avengers (5) - 65
-Wave Serpent, TL Scatter Laser, Holofields - 135
Dire Avengers (5) - 65
-Wave Serpent, TL Scatter Laser, Holofields - 135
Dire Avengers (5) - 65
-Wave Serpent, TL Scatter Laser, Holofields - 135

HEAVY SUPPORT:
Wraithknight, Wraithcannons - 240

Allied DE Detachment

Baron Sathonyx - 105

TROOPS
Kabalite Warriors (5) - 45
-Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon, Grisly Trophies - 70
Kabalite Warriors (5) - 45
-Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon, Grisly Trophies - 70

HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager, Night Shields or Flickerfield - 115

TOTAL = 1850

I am not sure if the Ravager is the best use for the points. I have thought about the following options, and any thoughts or additional ideas would be appreciated:

ELDAR FAST ATTACK:
Warp Spiders (6) - 114: These are good but not against higher armor.

ELDAR HEAVY SUPPORT:
Night Spinner - 115 (would need to free up an additional 15 points somewhere if I wanted to give it holofields as well)

I was also considering adding in some Eldar Jetbikes for some last turn objective grabbing power.

Seercouncil is a strong list and certainly can be done in many different iterations. Here are some suggestions:

1) You have 6 spears in your council, which is about 4 spears too many. Give them to the farseers if you need to, but armourbane will knock out most things in assault, especially with 2 attacks each (3 if you're not multi-charging).

2) Go big with the council or don't take it. I highly recommend 10 warlocks. Some argue a minimum of 8, but with all those points invested, why not 10?

3) Venoms with grisly trophies are nice for their reroll potential, but they also are great for giving up first blood if that's a thing for most of your games. A savvy opponent will not shoot the council, but rather focus on the venoms & serpents, especially if you have fortune & protect or they have no ignores cover.

4) The council is great, until you fail leadership tests. Get a shard of anaris in there. Find the points for it, fearlessness is something absolutely required for any deathstar.

5) The council can always Voltron turn 5+ to contest objectives, but I like 2 or 3 jetbike squads to hold objectives. Your serpents definitely will do a lot of work though, especially with target saturation. Your choice on jetbikes or not.

6) Hawks or Spiders. Take your pick and use 2 of these squads. I like one of each.

7) Ravagers are good, but not necessarily optimal in this list, especially with your knight & singing spears. You can afford to drop it for something else.

8) I mentioned venoms earlier, but only 1 squad of warriors should get the job done just fine.

Take it or leave it, hope some of this advice helps!

Since you want the seer council, I would keep the ravager in and keep the dark lances. Your list has plenty of AT, but against Av13 or at range, your lacking. The Spiders need to be close, therefore likely to die. Night shields help maximize range as you get jink against the necrons. Against tau, you are better off staying out of markerlight range altogether than having to rely on a 5++ once the cover is gone.

I would also add night shields on the venoms, but I know points are tight. Do drop a spear from the council to get trophies on the ravager. You may need them late game, and if your going to take another DE boat, take the trophies. You only need enough spears in the squad to wreck a tank then assault the passengers. They are pretty lolz if you manage to instagib a suit or any T4 model as well. The lances are great for nuking crisis suits, and put about the same wounds on a riptide as dissies, but can still pop armor.

Based on what you have found to be difficult matchups, I'd recommend keeping the Ravager. I've faced armor 13 Necron armies and it can be quite a challenge, especially when you lose Hit and Run from one of the Necron ICs.

Shard of Anaris is a must for one of your Farseers. I think you'd have to sacrifice the Singing Spears and any upgrades on your Ravager to get it.

Otherwise, run it as is and see how it fares. I'm not convinced you need so many points for re-rolls for Warlocks (the Grisly Trophies), but some folks swear by them. YMMV.

 Rypher wrote:
Seercouncil is a strong list and certainly can be done in many different iterations. Here are some suggestions:

1) You have 6 spears in your council, which is about 4 spears too many. Give them to the farseers if you need to, but armourbane will knock out most things in assault, especially with 2 attacks each (3 if you're not multi-charging).

2) Go big with the council or don't take it. I highly recommend 10 warlocks. Some argue a minimum of 8, but with all those points invested, why not 10?

3) Venoms with grisly trophies are nice for their reroll potential, but they also are great for giving up first blood if that's a thing for most of your games. A savvy opponent will not shoot the council, but rather focus on the venoms & serpents, especially if you have fortune & protect or they have no ignores cover.

4) The council is great, until you fail leadership tests. Get a shard of anaris in there. Find the points for it, fearlessness is something absolutely required for any deathstar.

5) The council can always Voltron turn 5+ to contest objectives, but I like 2 or 3 jetbike squads to hold objectives. Your serpents definitely will do a lot of work though, especially with target saturation. Your choice on jetbikes or not.

6) Hawks or Spiders. Take your pick and use 2 of these squads. I like one of each.

7) Ravagers are good, but not necessarily optimal in this list, especially with your knight & singing spears. You can afford to drop it for something else.

8) I mentioned venoms earlier, but only 1 squad of warriors should get the job done just fine.

Take it or leave it, hope some of this advice helps!

The only problem i see with this advise is your recommending to many upgrades/point spending, without the points to do it.

If your running a seer council take 10 warlocks 2 farseer baron and the venoms for rerolls for psychic tests they really help, also as said above only put spears on seers, i'm going to look into spending another 50pts for spears on all warlocks not sure if its worth it though.

The only other comment is maybe dropping WK for the last 4 warlocks on jetbikes =200pts and with the 40pts leftover that gives enough points for shard and 2 more spears, so your council will look like this:

farseer shard
farseer spear
warlock jetbike/spear x5
warlock jetbike x5

I recognize it is heresy but I'd drop one WS. That leaves you with 4 troops and frees 200 points. With that I'd buy a shard, 7 spiders and a barebones jetbike squad.

I'd also take a grisly trophies on the Ravager but would gamble and not take the NS or FF as I figure it will be a low priority target. Id prefer my opponent be shooting at it over venoms anyway.

I think that leaves a pretty scary list that should cause some targeting problems for your opponent

Thank you all for your feedback. I don't think I really want to run more than 8 locks on bikes, but maybe I will change my mind after playing a few times. I also do not really want to sacrifice the WK because it usually draws a lot of fire and makes up its points in games. I have considered dropping one of the WS in order to get a Shard of Anaris and some jetbikes. I have created a list for comparison purposes. I gave one seer the shard, added a lock, dropped a serpent, added 2 JB squads (would 1 be enough and get something else instead?), and gave the ravager trophies. What would be the best use for the additional points that I have remaining in this list? Would running this list as Iyanden and taking soulshrive or the celestial lance on the other seer be good? I was considering running as Iyanden anyway to gain access to the warlord traits.

Primary Eldar Detachment
HQ:
Farseer: Jetbike, Shard of Anaris - 155
Farseer: Jetbike, Singing Spear - 120
Warlocks (7): Jetbikes, 2 Singing Spears - 360

TROOPS:
Dire Avengers (5) - 65
-Wave Serpent, TL Scatter Laser, Holofields - 135
Dire Avengers (5) - 65
-Wave Serpent, TL Scatter Laser, Holofields - 135
Windrider Jetbike Squad (3) - 51
Windrider Jetbike Squad (3) - 51

HEAVY SUPPORT:
Wraithknight, Wraithcannons - 240

Allied DE Detachment
Baron Sathonyx - 105

TROOPS
Kabalite Warriors (5) - 45
-Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon, Grisly Trophies - 70
Kabalite Warriors (5) - 45
-Venom, Extra Splinter Cannon, Grisly Trophies - 70

HEAVY SUPPORT
Ravager, Grisly Trophies - 110

TOTAL = 1822

I like the newer list. Two serpents and a knight along with a council is scary to face.

For the remaining points, get runes of warding on at least one (if not both) of the seers. A misfortune or hallucination directed at you is not something you want to go through and the +2 to deny the witch really keeps the council alive.

Give your Shardseer Spear too, makes no senae to give it to a BS 4 model and not BS 5 one for the same points. Otherwise, I really like the list.

Araenion - I did not even realize that you could give the farseer the Shard of Anaris and a singing spear. That is definitely better than putting the spear on a lock.

Now I still have a few things I am wondering about:
1) Do I need 2 JB squads? Would 1 be better and then add another lock to the council or some other options to other units?
2) What is the point of adding night shields to venoms if they will be moving into closer range with the council?
3) Soulshrive on the second seer a good idea?
4) Are flickerfields a good investment on the Ravager if Tau is my toughest opponent? (it will never be out of range of a riptide or hammerhead)
5) Which warlord traits should I use for this army? I was thinking personal or iyanden.

I'd go ahead and put cannons on the WS and a spear on the Farseer.

The cannons are best on the WS because they will likely be twin linked

1) You don't need them, but they're useful. Probably more than an extra lock, anyway.

2)Two reason: small-arms fire and rapid fire. Light vehicles usually don't die to krak missiles or lasscannons, because with their 5+ save and low point cost, it's not worth spending shooting big weapons at them. But rapid fire bolters absolutely kill AV10 2 HP vehicles. Ask my War Walkers. They either live the entire game or they die to rapid fire from some random half-beaten squad that I came near when I went to contest an objective. Why do I mention it? Usual rapid fire range is 12", but when you have Nightshields, because they lower the range of bolters to 18", it's actually 9" for rapid fire. And they make Dire Avenger catapults the same as Guardian catapults, negating them their range. Not to mention the S5 Pulse Rifles suddenly with only 24" and 12" rapid fire.

3)Not really, no. Soulshrive is cool on an Autarch who has attacks to build it up, but with 2 attacks base, Farseers won't really benefit much from them.

4)It shouldn't be in range of Markerlights, either. I don't know, Nightshields seem a better choice.

5)Iyanden traits are amazing. Imagine a Seer Council with 2++ rerollable AND FNP, haha! Or Hatred, for that matter. Eesh.

Why the baron? I'm not really sure I see a point in him in the list aside from a cheap DE HQ.

Thanks to labmouse42 for the following information about the Baron with a Seer Council:

You will need the baron to really make the seerStar really work. The baron gives a few critical utility pieces to the squad. In fact, I would argue hes probably the best utility IC in the game for his point cost.
* First he gives offensive/defensive grenades, letting you assault through cover and removing incoming extra attacks
* He provides stealth, giving you a 2+ cover save with just conceal.
* He provides hit and run. A screamerStar is going to be locked in combat with a fortuned riptide all game. The seerStar just bounces out and eats the next nearby set of unit(s)
* He provides a 2++ rerollable (with fortune) save. Often when I'm assaulted by something very scary, I'll just take the hits on the baron and watch them just bounce off.
* When moving forward you can lead with the baron if your going to be eating a lot of AP2 shots. That farsight squad is a lot less scary when its 18 melta guns that ignore cover are bouncing off your 2++ reroll.
* The baron benefits a lot from the warlocks. Dual empowers gives him a STR 8 attack, which I used to insta-gib Farsight last weekend.
* The baron provides night vision (ok, this has limited value, but its there )
* The baron provides +1 to go first (as per the DE FAQ) This helps a lot when you want to get your 2++ going before the Tau player can try and blow you off the table.
* The baron has an high initiative. This helps in sweeping units.

He gives the Council Stealth (which combines with Shrouded from one of the Warlocks powers) and Hit and Run (which is almost mandatory).