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 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Hmm, my gaming group has always played prescience giving re-rolls on the scatter die, I just assumed everyone else did. Is that not how it's meant to be played, I seem to half remember an FAQ somewhere? As of now there are few competitive Grey Knight builds, Draigo Wing, Henchmen spam, Purifiers in Psybacks and then there are fun lists such as mass strikes and interceptors. The most common of which I believe to be Draigo wing followed by Henchmen. The Ectoplama cannon isn't given half enough credit very often because of the mediocre Bs of the Fiend, but that extra point of strength is HUGE vs some very/increasingly common units such as Battle suits, Paladins and Tyrand Beasties (Warriors, Lictors, Ravaners, Shrikes). While you won't have the points for both a Heldrake AND a forgefiend unless you really push the list around, I would very much suggest either.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Prescience lets you re-roll scatter. Also re-rolls the gets hot dice for blast weapons with the rule.

Ahh yes you are correct I checked back on page 33 in the BRB for blast weapons, and its in a tiny little section for blast re-rolls. Thanks for clarifying.

and on that note, back to what ALEXisAWESOMEMade mentioned about Forgefiends and the ecto cannons, I've personally found they die before they can do much, but then again I haven't had too much experience with them lately.
The 3x Ecto cannon with Prescience and Daemonforge does sound like it could pack a punch against a TEQ heavy army. I think I'm just worried about survivability. I know I could use invisibility on it, but that means taking that away from something else. There are enough threats on the field that the GK player might just ignore it for the first little bit too, is one possibility. Just not sure I'd take it over a heldrake, I know I can't fit both thats for sure. I think what I'm trying to get at is does flying circus have enough to deal with 2+ Armor saves, without having to get my MC's in CC in the case of GK and if not is the Forgefiend with ectoplasm cannons a viable option (I know I've never seen it mentioned before).

I know I may be asking a lot of questions, but I think this is becoming a pretty good discussion so far. Thanks again to everyone who has replied.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Hmm, my gaming group has always played prescience giving re-rolls on the scatter die, I just assumed everyone else did. Is that not how it's meant to be played, I seem to half remember an FAQ somewhere? As of now there are few competitive Grey Knight builds, Draigo Wing, Henchmen spam, Purifiers in Psybacks and then there are fun lists such as mass strikes and interceptors. The most common of which I believe to be Draigo wing followed by Henchmen. The Ectoplama cannon isn't given half enough credit very often because of the mediocre Bs of the Fiend, but that extra point of strength is HUGE vs some very/increasingly common units such as Battle suits, Paladins and Tyrand Beasties (Warriors, Lictors, Ravaners, Shrikes). While you won't have the points for both a Heldrake AND a forgefiend unless you really push the list around, I would very much suggest either.

The fact that it Gets Hot! on average every other turn is also a bummer, as it locks down the cannon that fired it afaik even if it does not take a HP.

Get's Hot is mitigated by the Invul as well as IWND (not sure if prescience lets you re-roll that) but those hull points honestly matter quiet little because unless that thing Explodes it will be shooting thanks being a Daemon Engine and ignoring shaken results. Unless he is playing Purifiers the Heldrake will be squandered on either 2+ saves or the Henchmen's practically non-existent saves/Invuls. He maybe helpful against other armies, but specifically against Grey Knights, Draigo Wing precisely, you won't find a better tool then a forgefiend.

He also really helps with Target Saturation, If a Dread is shooting at this guy (Only effective long range AT knights have save assassin) then those Twin Linked shots aren't going into your FMC to ground there asses. The Psy Cannons aren't likely to be in range unless you let them because of your range advantage. Anyway, Technically, it's a daemon so if you feel like it you can even give it Grimour!

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Get's Hot is mitigated by the Invul as well as IWND (not sure if prescience lets you re-roll that) but those hull points honestly matter quiet little because unless that thing Explodes it will be shooting thanks being a Daemon Engine and ignoring shaken results. Unless he is playing Purifiers the Heldrake will be squandered on either 2+ saves or the Henchmen's practically non-existent saves/Invuls. He maybe helpful against other armies, but specifically against Grey Knights, Draigo Wing precisely, you won't find a better tool then a forgefiend.

He also really helps with Target Saturation, If a Dread is shooting at this guy (Only effective long range AT knights have save assassin) then those Twin Linked shots aren't going into your FMC to ground there asses. The Psy Cannons aren't likely to be in range unless you let them because of your range advantage. Anyway, Technically, it's a daemon so if you feel like it you can even give it Grimour!

Wonder how a 3++ Maulferfiend sprinting across the board would work.

What about the Portaglyph? That, plus the Warp Storm result that allows to summon you some more troop, can allow to bring some more bodies on the floor. I would try with daemonettes, they are fast and killy in CC. Even in small numbers, either the opponent wastes some shoots at them or you are going to lock something in CC.
In the worst case you can use them to capture some free objectives.

Diablix wrote:
What about the Portaglyph? That, plus the Warp Storm result that allows to summon you some more troop, can allow to bring some more bodies on the floor. I would try with daemonettes, they are fast and killy in CC. Even in small numbers, either the opponent wastes some shoots at them or you are going to lock something in CC.
In the worst case you can use them to capture some free objectives.

I've gone back and forth with the Portalglyph, and ultimately I think I've decided against that as of now. Even though Flying circus is weak in the troops department, some have argued its just giving away kill points. As for the Warpstorm result that has the same effect, I've come to realize you can't really count on that result coming up even if you get re rolls on the table. This is just my experience but thanks for the suggestion.

akwing00 wrote:

Diablix wrote:
What about the Portaglyph? That, plus the Warp Storm result that allows to summon you some more troop, can allow to bring some more bodies on the floor. I would try with daemonettes, they are fast and killy in CC. Even in small numbers, either the opponent wastes some shoots at them or you are going to lock something in CC.
In the worst case you can use them to capture some free objectives.

I've gone back and forth with the Portalglyph, and ultimately I think I've decided against that as of now. Even though Flying circus is weak in the troops department, some have argued its just giving away kill points. As for the Warpstorm result that has the same effect, I've come to realize you can't really count on that result coming up even if you get re rolls on the table. This is just my experience but thanks for the suggestion.

Well, that's true only in the case of Kill Point missions... You can just use a different Exalted Reward/Artefact in those missions. And I found to be unlikely that your summoned troop will give First Blood away, most of the time something else will die sooner.

Of course you DON'T have to rely on that, also because the number of models won't be that high. But I believe that 30 points are not that much to really hurt your list, but could help you win some games

Am I missing something?

From my experience, Daemons can win via shooting, and or getting into assault (first) emphasis on first , for if we assault you ... your gonna die. I mean now your I 1 and we have 2x attacks so chances are at least a few wounds are caused.. you fail one and hello FW. If you initiate assault you'll probably kill 3-4 then there is only 1 or 6 left. A 4 to hit re-rolling 1s and a 5 or higher to wound is still quite tough to get through.

I mean Flickering fire we have a 5+ Deny and heaven forbid a rune priest making it a 4+ deny but if you can initiate assault first and get flickering fire to go off with prescience you generally stand a good chance of winning. Where it really becomes a problem is when the list that has been made is either really fast like shunt list, or has multiple units taken within the grey knights codex rather than just relying on one unit. Fast is bad because if they can get around now they have a good chance of initiating assault first/ if they have multiple units like interceptors, strikes, paladins, Dreadknights, dreadnoughts etc. They have much more tools at there disposal to deal with you. So all in all

assault first.
and shoot them from far away and hope they don't deny absolutely every flickering flame you shoot at them

Diablix wrote:

akwing00 wrote:

Diablix wrote:
What about the Portaglyph? That, plus the Warp Storm result that allows to summon you some more troop, can allow to bring some more bodies on the floor. I would try with daemonettes, they are fast and killy in CC. Even in small numbers, either the opponent wastes some shoots at them or you are going to lock something in CC.
In the worst case you can use them to capture some free objectives.

I've gone back and forth with the Portalglyph, and ultimately I think I've decided against that as of now. Even though Flying circus is weak in the troops department, some have argued its just giving away kill points. As for the Warpstorm result that has the same effect, I've come to realize you can't really count on that result coming up even if you get re rolls on the table. This is just my experience but thanks for the suggestion.

Well, that's true only in the case of Kill Point missions... You can just use a different Exalted Reward/Artefact in those missions. And I found to be unlikely that your summoned troop will give First Blood away, most of the time something else will die sooner.

Of course you DON'T have to rely on that, also because the number of models won't be that high. But I believe that 30 points are not that much to really hurt your list, but could help you win some games

Am I missing something?

Yeah I do agree with you, I'm just saying for the most part I don't end up using it, but I will switch it in instead of taking a second greater reward on my 2nd Tzeentch prince, depending on which of my friends I'm playing against for example. I do have to take out 2 daemonettes to accomadate the points on my list on the first page, but thats what I end up doing. I don't think any of the exalted gifts besides the grim and portalglyph are better than most of the greater gifts personally.