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Using a group of 3 biovores, I completely miss with the first blast template, the second I roll a hit and am able to cover 3 marines, and the third scatter results in a miss. Pg 65 in the codex says that d3 spores will be placed under the first missed template. My opponent & I have both been playing since 2nd ed and RT and have fun. but we question the RAW. what are your thoughts in the following situations.

all three templates miss?
first template hits and one or both of the 2nd & 3rd templates miss?

In those scenarios how many d3 spore mines do you feel would be placed.

we played it RAW and only placed the d3 under the primary template but both of us felt that it should have been under the first & third template (both misses)

You seem to understand how the rule works perfectly fine.

Yeah raw I think it is only the 1st miss seems odd tho.

Yeah,it looks like units of 1 will be the way to go, very silly.

I don't know where you're finding the space to run units of 1.

wtnind wrote:
Yeah,it looks like units of 1 will be the way to go, very silly.

Actually units of 2 would be best, intentionally miss with the first template and hope to hit with the second would so that you could resolve a hit as well as having a few spores for the enemy to deal with. Also with the non random movement now, they are a threat that will draw fire from a unit.

theunicorn wrote:
intentionally miss with the first template

How do you plan to intentionally miss?
Improve the chances maybe...

Deliberately avoid having line of sight and place the centre of the blast marker over a model on the edge of the unit?

I don't like it, sure it's good if you miss just barely, but if you hit you've sacrificed hitting a lot more models.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Deliberately avoid having line of sight and place the centre of the blast marker over a model on the edge of the unit?

That improves your chances of a miss, but a hit or scatter into the unit is still a hit.
Not the same as an intentional miss.

i would in fact aim for a hit on the first blast and if i rolled a HIT marker for the second, place the blast template so that it spawn spore mines since you get to place it where you want.

the second template does not create any spore mines

(IF) The first template large blast was a miss. Therefore, you do not roll for subsequent templates but instead land D3xbiovore spore mines? (Or is it D3+biovore squad size?).

Right?

Razerous wrote:
(IF) The first template large blast was a miss. Therefore, you do not roll for subsequent templates but instead land D3xbiovore spore mines? (Or is it D3+biovore squad size?).

Right?

Nothing states you do not resolve the rest of your shots, only that spore mines are created by the first shot.

POKEYtheBIG wrote:

Razerous wrote:
(IF) The first template large blast was a miss. Therefore, you do not roll for subsequent templates but instead land D3xbiovore spore mines? (Or is it D3+biovore squad size?).

Right?

Nothing states you do not resolve the rest of your shots, only that spore mines are created by the first shot.

I'll have to check the codex, but this sounds very obviously like an error.

The 5th Edition rule said if you miss with the first shot, you get Spore Mines instead of resolving any remaining blasts. If the 6th Edition rule now says that if you miss with the first blast, you get spore mines, obviously they seem to be driving towards the wording of the previous rule.

If it's not an error, then it makes no sense why you'd get mines from the first blast and not with subsequent blasts.

I'll have to inform my Tyranid buddy about this, but I'd be inclined to follow the 5th edition meaning.

Murrdox wrote:

POKEYtheBIG wrote:

Razerous wrote:
(IF) The first template large blast was a miss. Therefore, you do not roll for subsequent templates but instead land D3xbiovore spore mines? (Or is it D3+biovore squad size?).

Right?

Nothing states you do not resolve the rest of your shots, only that spore mines are created by the first shot.

I'll have to check the codex, but this sounds very obviously like an error.

The 5th Edition rule said if you miss with the first shot, you get Spore Mines instead of resolving any remaining blasts. If the 6th Edition rule now says that if you miss with the first blast, you get spore mines, obviously they seem to be driving towards the wording of the previous rule.

If it's not an error, then it makes no sense why you'd get mines from the first blast and not with subsequent blasts.

I'll have to inform my Tyranid buddy about this, but I'd be inclined to follow the 5th edition meaning.

RaI its hard to tell, I could see it going either way.

RaW, yes you try to resolve the 2nd+ markers because nothing tells you not to and they fired as well.

Murrdox wrote:

POKEYtheBIG wrote:

Razerous wrote:
(IF) The first template large blast was a miss. Therefore, you do not roll for subsequent templates but instead land D3xbiovore spore mines? (Or is it D3+biovore squad size?).

Right?

Nothing states you do not resolve the rest of your shots, only that spore mines are created by the first shot.

I'll have to check the codex, but this sounds very obviously like an error.

The 5th Edition rule said if you miss with the first shot, you get Spore Mines instead of resolving any remaining blasts. If the 6th Edition rule now says that if you miss with the first blast, you get spore mines, obviously they seem to be driving towards the wording of the previous rule.

If it's not an error, then it makes no sense why you'd get mines from the first blast and not with subsequent blasts.

I'll have to inform my Tyranid buddy about this, but I'd be inclined to follow the 5th edition meaning.

RAW nothing stops the second or third shot from being resolved. The 5th edition is irrelevant to the conversation. I understand why you would want to use it as an example, but for rules discussion previous codices may as we'll not exist as they are moot.

POKEYtheBIG wrote:

RAW nothing stops the second or third shot from being resolved. The 5th edition is irrelevant to the conversation. I understand why you would want to use it as an example, but for rules discussion previous codices may as we'll not exist as they are moot.

5th Edition isn't irrelevant to the conversation. We're talking about a brand-new codex here, which probably contains at least some errata. When a rule looks suspiciously contradictory like this, you can look to previous incarnations of the same rule for guidance. Just saying "It's RAW" in that instance is about as useful as following your GPS guidance system over a bridge that doesn't exist. Look at how it worked in 5th. 50% of the old rule is there. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to run it that way. It's a much more logical conclusion that they just left a sentence out of the rule.

It'd be like if 7th Edition came out, and they left out the bit of the rulebook when they talk about the maximum of any stat being 10, and someone came up with some weird exploit to give Wraithknights Toughness 12 so they couldn't be wounded by anything.

Normally I'd say wait a few weeks and we'll see... but GW has been doing an absolutely abysmal job at updating FAQs and Erratas for the past YEAR so we may have to sit on it awhile.

I'd say it's a much more logical conclusion that the rule was deliberately changed to work just like any other multiple barrage. There is nothing suspiciously contradictory here, the rule works just fine.

Does this mean that if you roll a flip right then flip left again (ontop of the first) your spore mines get damaged?

That would be pretty funny and also stupid.

Edit: oops, looks like barrage templates all flip off the first template, not in a line. Been doing that wrong for a while.

Murrdox wrote:

POKEYtheBIG wrote:

RAW nothing stops the second or third shot from being resolved. The 5th edition is irrelevant to the conversation. I understand why you would want to use it as an example, but for rules discussion previous codices may as we'll not exist as they are moot.

5th Edition isn't irrelevant to the conversation. We're talking about a brand-new codex here, which probably contains at least some errata. When a rule looks suspiciously contradictory like this, you can look to previous incarnations of the same rule for guidance. Just saying "It's RAW" in that instance is about as useful as following your GPS guidance system over a bridge that doesn't exist. Look at how it worked in 5th. 50% of the old rule is there. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to run it that way. It's a much more logical conclusion that they just left a sentence out of the rule.

It'd be like if 7th Edition came out, and they left out the bit of the rulebook when they talk about the maximum of any stat being 10, and someone came up with some weird exploit to give Wraithknights Toughness 12 so they couldn't be wounded by anything.

Normally I'd say wait a few weeks and we'll see... but GW has been doing an absolutely abysmal job at updating FAQs and Erratas for the past YEAR so we may have to sit on it awhile.

I understand your point, but still do not agree. I believe as stated above that the rule has just been changed. It doesn't matter if they used 99% of the old rule if the part in question is changed in this edition.

wtnind wrote:
Does this mean that if you roll a flip right then flip left again (ontop of the first)

Your second "flip left" would go to the left of the first template, not left of the second. So would not be ontop of the first.

theunicorn wrote:
Using a group of 3 biovores, I completely miss with the first blast template, the second I roll a hit and am able to cover 3 marines, and the third scatter results in a miss. Pg 65 in the codex says that d3 spores will be placed under the first missed template. My opponent & I have both been playing since 2nd ed and RT and have fun. but we question the RAW. what are your thoughts in the following situations.

all three templates miss?
first template hits and one or both of the 2nd & 3rd templates miss?

In those scenarios how many d3 spore mines do you feel would be placed.

we played it RAW and only placed the d3 under the primary template but both of us felt that it should have been under the first & third template (both misses)

Ok, I thought that way a while back and then I found out that I was wrong.

The BRB barrage rules state that the shots are all chained together. Even if the gun doesn't state that they are. So there IS an actual first shot, you only ever get to place 1d3 Spore mines, and you only roll the 2d6 once. This is straight RAW from the BRB.

That being said, RAW, you keep rolling the scatter dice, just the one dice and not the 2d6, for the 2nd or 3rd shot, even if the 1st shot misses. So it's a pretty cool error until GW FAQs it away.

Edit: Since shooting is done at the same time, can the blasts scatter back on the spore mines that were just made? I say no based solely off the rule that the spore mines and shooting all happening at the same time and I, the player who's turn it is, would get to decide what happens first, and I would always pick the shooting.

You prob would want to miss with that 1st template b/c then the newly created spore mines could assault in the very next assault phase and you could get up to a str 6.

But I am confused since barrage is all one shot is it if any of the 3 templates (if you had 3 Biovores) in 1st barrage miss you get mines or only the very 1st? So if I miss with the 1st but the scatter template w/ the 2nd scatter die only flops on to something do I still get mines? Or if the 1st one hits and a flop misses do i get mines?


EDIT NM it say 1st blast marker in the barrage. So clearly it is only the 1st in the barrage.

The Spore Mines are placed immediately after the first blast misses, so you could hit your own spore mines if you rolled a direct hit and place the a subsequent blast marker over the spore mines. I've no idea why you'd want to do it, but you can.